Selling Sap

[spud]

Spud-
Have you ever heard of a open market??? Just asking as I will pose a scenario for you. A hobby producer gets inundated with 250 extra gallons of sap every other day and runs out of firewood. Said hobby producer doesn't want to cook any more this year but already has his buckets hanging on the trees. He would love to make a few extra bucks and maybe invest that back into some equipment. So there is a large(10,000tap) operation a few miles up the road which also buys from a few other hobby guys. He pays $.13/pt/gallon. 100,000 tap operation is 20 miles away and pays$.14/pt/gallon. Those are the only 2 producers within 40 miles that purchase sap. That is the price the local market dictates, last I checked America is still a free market(until the government steps in and provides subsides)
Obviously this can change from region to region and even day to day. I hope all you sellers can get top dollar, best wishes.

The price of bulk syrup has been dictated for all of us. The price of sap should and is based on the price of bulk syrup. A person has the right to sell their sap or syrup for whatever they want. Whatever price the buyer and seller decide on is fine but it may not be fair. If you're the only buyer for 50 miles then you can set your own price and the seller can take it or leave it. By only offering .13 pt/gallon you as a buyer know your getting the deal and not the seller. My feeling is you should treat people fairly and not try to rip people off.

Spud

[lpakiz]

Spud,
The going rate here in central Wisconsin is 13 to 15 cents per point per gallon. Supply and demand, can't change that.

[spud]

Spud,
The going rate here in central Wisconsin is 13 to 15 cents per point per gallon. Supply and demand, can't change that.

Supply and demand means you supply them with sap and you also demand to be paid fair. Don't ever say you can't change that (that is a sign of weakness) Many things in this world have been (changed) because strong people stood up for their rights and demanded to be treated fairly.

Spud

[lpakiz]

Here's how it works here in Wisconsin. If I sell sap and DEMAND 25 cents per point, the buyer will tell me to take a hike.
If I am buying sap and the seller DEMANDS 25 cents, I tell HIM to take a hike. This is not weakness, it is supply and demand.

[Walling's Maple Syrup]

If I could sell sap for .50 cents per gallon at 2%, I would sell my evaporator, ro, barrels, and everything else needed to process the sap into syrup and go that route. At that price you would make more selling raw sap than processing it into syrup by the time you figured money and time invested into processing it.
Neil

[spud]

If I could sell sap for .50 cents per gallon at 2%, I would sell my evaporator, ro, barrels, and everything else needed to process the sap into syrup and go that route. At that price you would make more selling raw sap than processing it into syrup by the time you figured money and time invested into processing it.
Neil

This is why I sell my sap. I get .50 cents for 2% sap and my buyer is still making $8.00 per gallon. We are both happy and we are both making a (fair) amount of money. This is why I have no plans to buy an evaporator or barrels. I do plan to buy an RO just to save on trucking. When that happens I have already been told I will be paid more money for my sap. This is being fair to me and thats why I enjoy do business with my buyer. A level of fairness and respect needs to be shown from both parties (and it is). Franklin County is by far the largest maple producer. What the big boy's have discovered is buying sap even at 70% of bulk price still makes them a good amount of money. A lot of Larger operations (not all) tend to have lower GPT production because they rely to much on others to do the job (in the woods) for them. These others don't care as much as the owner and as a result production takes a hit. Because of this buying sap has become a way of getting sap without dealing with all the nonsense. The big boys have plenty of holding tanks and ROs to handle whatever sap you and they have. Because of ROs most sugar makers don't spend countless hours boiling. The big boys can boil around the clock and depending on evaporator size can make over $1000.00 per hour profit on bought sap paying 70%. Mike Farrell has write-ups on this and we have talked about this by way of e-mail. Mike laughs at people saying they can't afford paying more then 50% but then after breaking it all down the person realizes even with their smaller rig they can make $250.00 per hour buying at 70%. How many of you make that at your day job? Franklin County is paying a higher rate for sap then other places and that is for sure. I believe in time other large operations in other parts of Vermont and other states will start paying more per gallon for sap. If your going to spend all that money buying evaporator, RO, Filter Press and barrels then why not let it make you more money? Using this equipment for only 3-8 hours a day seems silly when it could be run 24 hours a day making you more money and paying off the equipment sooner. Paying one or two people to boil all night for you could make you thousands while you sleep. This also encourages more people to set up their property for sap selling. Just my thoughts.

Spud

[Randy Brutkoski]

If I was paying 50 cents a gallon for 2% , I wouldn't be in business that long. There is so many expenses to boiling sap. 50/50 right down the middle at bulk price is the fair way for both. I am happy for you getting that much $ for sap. But here in the real world it doesn't happen like that.

[Walling's Maple Syrup]

If I was paying 50 cents a gallon for 2% , I wouldn't be in business that long. There is so many expenses to boiling sap. 50/50 right down the middle at bulk price is the fair way for both. I am happy for you getting that much $ for sap. But here in the real world it doesn't happen like that.

I've never bought or sold sap, but I would say that would be fair for both parties.
Neil

[Walling's Maple Syrup]

$8.00 per gallon is the gross figure before you take out boiling expenses(fuel consumption, electricity, manpower if you are paying someone, wear and tear on equipment, trucking to get the finished product to buyer....)the list goes on and on. By the time you are done it wouldn't be worth it- at least not for me. That being said, if you are getting that much for your sap, that is great. If I was in that situation, that is what I would do as well.
Neil

[spud]

If I was paying 50 cents a gallon for 2% , I wouldn't be in business that long. There is so many expenses to boiling sap. 50/50 right down the middle at bulk price is the fair way for both. I am happy for you getting that much $ for sap. But here in the real world it doesn't happen like that.

Randy,

You live in the same world I live in. Now stop and think about what you just said. The price of bulk syrup and maple equipment is very close to the same for both of us (although there is a discount on equipment if you live in Franklin County). There is no reason you can't set up your operation to be more profitable just like the big boy's do here in my area. They are no better or smarter then you they just see something you're not. In business there is always room for improvement. The problem with some people is they think their top notch so they never look into improving. In their eye's they are already at the top. There is always room for improvement even with the big boy's. Last year I got 25 GPT and I was happy with that (BUT). I see others getting 30-40 GPT and that tells me there is room for improvement in my woods and with my set-up. I want more production so I turn to those who are doing much better then me. There are great people on this site that have helped me a bunch. There is also PMRC and Dr.Tim that can help all of us to be better sugar maker's. I listen to these people because they understand how to get more GPT. All this information is free to anyone willing to listen. I have heard maple dealers say PMRC does not know what their talking about. I know one dealer that gets a .4 GPT average and that's pretty good. PMRC and other's get .6+ GPT so who's the Jack***? The key to being successful is learning from those who know more then you. Having a humble heart will lead a person to success. Whatever you're doing now (Randy) you can improve (only if you want). If 50/50 is the best you can do and show a profit then that should tell you something. Happy Birthday Randy.

Spud