"what it takes to achieve high yield production"

[Gary R]

What is "high yield production", gallons of syrup or sap per tap? I know many measure with syrup. I think it would be better to measure by sap. I think in sap production we have the most influence. My trees just don't have good sugar content. I believe the problem to be genetics and soils. I recently did a lime and fertilizer treatment. This would be very difficult and expensive for a large sugar bush. Last season was one of my better ones for sugar content. It still took me 72:1. For me I know I need to get rid of my sap ladders if I want better production. I don't know if I'll every do it because of the cost of a remote pump house for so few taps. I am definitely in the camp of better taps not more taps.

[spud]

What is "high yield production", gallons of syrup or sap per tap? I know many measure with syrup. I think it would be better to measure by sap. I think in sap production we have the most influence. My trees just don't have good sugar content. I believe the problem to be genetics and soils. I recently did a lime and fertilizer treatment. This would be very difficult and expensive for a large sugar bush. Last season was one of my better ones for sugar content. It still took me 72:1. For me I know I need to get rid of my sap ladders if I want better production. I don't know if I'll every do it because of the cost of a remote pump house for so few taps. I am definitely in the camp of better taps not more taps.

I tend to agree with you on the definition of (high yield production). For me it has to be sap because I sell my sap. Another reason is because my sugar is lower then a lot of other producer's. Dr. Tim has mentioned that thinning a woods can help bring sugar up because the crowns can grow. At this time I am unable to do any thinning in my woods. Like I have said in other post all I can do is try to extract as much sap per tap hole and may the sugar be whatever it is. For (me) high yield production would be getting 25+ GPT.

Spud

[red maples]

Well in my opinion yes the yeild per tap for sap is better, with modern technology(ro's) even with lower sugar you can ro to bring it up for cheaper, I don't mind darker syrup as long as it tastes good and my customers like it better as well. most people coming for syrup are looking for dark A and Gr B, and people that use it to sweeten say cofffee or tea they like the GR A light. and for those that like the less sugar also ask for the GR A Light...I know... I know... I tried to explain to them but they didn't get it!!!

[GeneralStark]

I tend to agree with you on the definition of (high yield production). For me it has to be sap because I sell my sap. Another reason is because my sugar is lower then a lot of other producer's. Dr. Tim has mentioned that thinning a woods can help bring sugar up because the crowns can grow. At this time I am unable to do any thinning in my woods. Like I have said in other post all I can do is try to extract as much sap per tap hole and may the sugar be whatever it is. For (me) high yield production would be getting 25+ GPT.

Spud

I suspect that tree vigor and health of the tree is a major factor in high yield production. It is #1 on Dr. Tim's list after all. Releasing your crop trees will do more than increase sugar content, it will also increase sap quantity as the tree will create more tissue faster which can in turn hold more sap.

Why not have a logger do some thinning in your woods and sell some firewood to make some extra cash from the land. It will also improve your ability to get those higher yields in the future. Win/win situation. I'm not telling you how to manage your woods, but it seems to me that this is a critical factor for long term high yield production.

I tend to be more in the "fewer taps but higher production" camp. One trend in the maple industry that does concern me is the focus on high yield production through vacuum and tubing systems (which I have no issue with) but without much discussion about tree vigor, health, and long term production. Sure, you can tube a woods and tap every maple with a leaf there is, but is that the most efficient or cost effective way to do it? Why not put some thought into how to better manage the woods for better production and better long term forest health?

[markcasper]

I tend to be more in the "fewer taps but higher production" camp. One trend in the maple industry that does concern me is the focus on high yield production through vacuum and tubing systems (which I have no issue with) but without much discussion about tree vigor, health, and long term production. Sure, you can tube a woods and tap every maple with a leaf there is, but is that the most efficient or cost effective way to do it? Why not put some thought into how to better manage the woods for better production and better long term forest health?

Spot on! Amen!

[spud]

GeneralStark,

What you are giving is very good advise. There are a few things to take into consideration though. Loggers do not always do a quality job in dropping and skidding trees out to a landing. Many of my maples that I would want to keep would or could be affected by poor logging practices. Another problem some may face (and I am one of them) is my set-up is fairly new so I have no intentions of taking it down so a logger can do his job. There also would be very little money made for me if a logger came to my land. My land was logged in 1991 and now has a lot of 9-12ish size trees. Organic is telling me 9 inch is minimum so that's what I do. PMRC taps down to 10 inch trees is what I have been told. I know I will never get the 2.5-3.0% sugar that some sugar maker's get and I am fine with that. Would I like to get that high sugar? oh yea but that would only happen (maybe) if I cut 1/4 of my woods down to give the other trees more space. I am not willing to do all that work so (maybe) my sugar content and my GPT will go up in the future? I'm almost 50 years old and I want to enjoy what I have for now. If someday my kids want to jump in and help out then maybe they could do some thinning themselves. For now getting 1.5-1.7% sugar average is ok for me. I just want 25+ GPT and I will be happy. If my back was better and I knew I would live to be 150 years old then I might do things different.

Spud

[Mark]

When a logger comes in all he is worried about is his bottom line.

[heus]

I too am hesitant to have someone log my woods. I have some beautiful 24-36" dbh cherries that I would be happy to sell. However, I fear that many of my sugars would be damaged in the skidding process, even with horses.

[TheMapleMoose]

We went to a sugarbush management seminar last week and one of the speakers was a state forester. He and several other foresters there made the point about releasing crop trees to increase tree health, crown size, and sugar %. It seemed like their suggestion was to thin to the S line, down to possibly 50-60 trees per acre depending on basal area.
I guess, being very novice in the sugarbush management area, that I can't see the benefit of cutting maples if we are trying to make maple syrup. If I've got 80 trees giving 25gpt @ 2%, am I better to thin to 60 trees? Will I really increase the production enough to compensate for the 20 taps I've lost? Am I missing the point completely ?

[bowhunter]

I'm also new to sugarbush management and I would have a problem cutting down producing trees. I've read two or three papers on sugarbush management to get some ideas for my little patch of woods. I'm trying to release the 4-8 inch trees right now and maybe take down a damaged maple here and there, but I don't have very many crop trees that are interfering at the canopy with each other and I think that's the important part. I've also started to release and cull some of the saplings, but I don't want to do too much at one time so the trees don't get shocked.