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Thread: 1/4 inch preheater

  1. #1
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    Feb 2017
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    Default 1/4 inch preheater

    Anyone try using 1/4 inch copper on a barrel stove preheater?

    I'm only boiling about 3 gph, cold sap is killing boil. Was thinking 1/4 would heat hotter and should be adequate to trickle in

  2. #2
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    Mar 2015
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    Westfield, NY
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    When I had a barrel stove I wrapped 3/8 soft copper around the stove pipe loosely with good results. Just remember to flush it with water when out of sap to keep it from scorching in the tubing.
    backyard hobbyist
    2014 - roasting pan on 55 gallon barrel -1 gallon syrup 6 taps on buckets
    2015 - added blower to door -3 gallon syrup 10 taps on buckets
    2016 - 3 gallon syrup and 2 lbs. sugar 16 taps on buckets
    2017 - new Mason 2x3 w/AUF shooting for 20 to 30ish taps and more sugar
    2018 - did not boil
    2019 - Added RO, sudo 8x8 sugar shack, 72 taps
    N 42* 18' 31."
    W 79* 34' 15."
    https://www.saptapapps.com/map/31868...-aab748a6394e/

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milton View Post
    Anyone try using 1/4 inch copper on a barrel stove preheater?

    I'm only boiling about 3 gph, cold sap is killing boil. Was thinking 1/4 would heat hotter and should be adequate to trickle in
    Depends where the tubing is. I once tried wrapping it around the stove pipe, but there was not enough volume in the 1/4" tube and the sap (violently) vapourized in the tube. I was thinking about starting the flow before I started the fire and have it going continuously to avoid vaporizing the sap. However, the simple pump I had was WAY too loud especially with the vibrations carried into the copper tube around the stack.

    The 3/8 tubing is probably a better starting point.
    2015 - 8 buckets, 332L sap, 8.5L syrup - Barrel evaporator, 2 steam pans
    2016 - 8 buckets, 432L sap
    2017 - 10 bags, 470L sap, 9L syrup
    2018 - 20 bags, 1050L sap, 17.6L syrup

  4. #4
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    Default

    Thanks I will give 3/8 a try

  5. #5
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    Apr 2017
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    Underhill, VT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickenman View Post
    When I had a barrel stove I wrapped 3/8 soft copper around the stove pipe loosely with good results. Just remember to flush it with water when out of sap to keep it from scorching in the tubing.
    Been pondering this myself. How many times did you go around the stove pipe? How much do you suspect it raised the temp of the incoming sap?
    -Scott
    2017: Found a new addiction/hobby!: 6 taps, Coleman stove/turkey fryer, graduated to barrel arch, 1.75 gal
    2018: Increased efficiency - 22 taps on 3/16 gravity vac, 10 buckets, homemade extended barrel arch w/ firebrick, warming pan, 20X30 baffled pan, small home-built RO, 11.5 gal
    2019: Same as above now with AUF, home-built float pan, gas sap pump, fewer fire brick but more insulation, maybe a few more taps if the wife lets me. ;-)

  6. #6
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    Feb 2013
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    Marysville, Ohio
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    I have a small evaporator and have been using a 3/8 copper coil around my 6 inch stove pipe for several years with good results. I believe I have 7 wraps around the pipe. I have it wrapped pretty tightly and it is wrapped with aluminum foil to hold in more of the heat. I get about 40-60 F of temperature increase on cold concentrate. I pump 5- 7 gallons per hour through it. At the end of the run I flush it out with permeate.
    Leader 1/2 pint - Kawasaki Mule - Smoky Lake Filter Bottler
    24 GPH RO, 2 1/2 x 40 NF3 (NF270), 140 GPH (Brass with no relief valve ) ProCon pump
    2013 - 44 taps on buckets - 16 gallons syrup, 2014 - 109 taps on buckets - 26 gallons syrup
    2015 - 71 taps on buckets - 13.5 gallons syrup, 2016 - 125 taps on buckets - 24.25 gallons syrup
    2017 - 129 taps on buckets - 17.5 gallons syrup, 2018 - 128 taps on buckets - 18 gallons syrup
    2019 -130 taps on buckets - 18.5 gallons syrup

  7. #7
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    Feb 2017
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    New York
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    Default Preheater

    I get a tremendous amount of heat at base of stack. It glows red when it's ripping. Any advice on connectors?
    Last edited by Milton; 03-18-2019 at 07:44 PM.

  8. #8
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    Mar 2012
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    North Central WI
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    I used 1/2 inch copper wrapped around the chimney, 40°F sap in, 160°F sap out; there's a picture in my Feb. 2019 thread titled "Sap Preheater Pic for Eberzin"
    2010 - 12 taps, turkey fryer, 4 quarts
    2011 - 24 taps, homemade arch from old water tank, 16"x24" flat pan, 16+ quarts
    2012 - 9 taps, 3 pints, what a season
    2013 - 60 taps, homemade oil tank arch with 2'x4' flat pan, 16"x24" finishing pan on electric range, 55 quarts
    2014 - 80 taps, homemade oil tank arch with 2'x4' flat pan, 16"x24" finishing pan on electric range, 40 quarts
    2015 - 100 taps, 15 gallons
    2016 - 115 taps, 13.5 gallons
    2017 - 120 taps, 13 gallons
    2018 - 130 taps, 11 gallons

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Central Maine
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    113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milton View Post
    Anyone try using 1/4 inch copper on a barrel stove preheater?

    I'm only boiling about 3 gph, cold sap is killing boil. Was thinking 1/4 would heat hotter and should be adequate to trickle in
    My first season I ran 1/4 inch. You can see it in my avatar pic. If you didn't keep the volume of flow up it would flash/ scorch in the tubing. Last season switched to 3/8, but too few wraps. This year, I placed more wraps and tighter to the stack. To help with excessive heat and potential flash, I wrapped the main stack with ceramic insulation gasket and then a second layer of chimney pipe. all with the thought of preventing direct contact with the main stove pipe. I then place a third piece of pipe over the entire coil, In hopes to retain heat and even it out over the length of the wrap. I haven't had a chance to boil yet, so I will report back by this weekend on the results, as I am expecting to have enough sap for a good boil by Friday.
    2017- Started small- 90 taps and made 7 gallons. Long days and a few nights on a 1x2 and turkey fryer. Caught the bug!

    2018- Bought a homebuilt 2x4 and built a small scale RO. # of taps? (More then last year,), predominately Reds, @ 210, with about 90 on vacuum. Finished out with 21 gallons.

    2019- moved up to 100 gph procon for my home built RO. Small mods to the 2x4 arch. Worked on my vac setup and mainline. Set about 220 taps this year and finished with 21 gallons again.

  10. #10
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    Jan 2006
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    Oneida NY
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    Look up the pictures in member Johnny Curevo's pics of how he did it. If you search his posts, he explains how he made it. I think (but please check) he used 3/8 copper and he uses springs to hold however many loops are needed to get the sap up to temperature. He can also, unhook all loops and then not burn the sap if any is left in the tubing. Each loop can be held to the stack or left loose as needed.
    Dave Klish about 1320 taps in '15, doing fewer each year, about 450 planned for 2020 (and after?)
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    added a gooseneck equipment trailer and F350 to tow it to haul more sap
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    http://s1041.photobucket.com/albums/...anssugarhouse/
    website: www.cnymaple.com

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