Marketing Syrup as Reverse Osmosis or Pipeline Free

[DrTimPerkins]

Where I can see a difference is producers that bring their syrup to a high brix using an RO. I purchase syrup from producers and that's one of the questions that I ask because I've tasted really I brix syrup and it just doesn't taste the same to me. It just doesn't have enough time for the flavor profile to develop if you asked me and I think that is where a difference can be but again, it doesn't make someones syrup necessarily better than anyone elses.

Not on our website yet, but from blind taste tests (generally from folks who know maple flavor, producers, packers, etc.) from a recent Maple Digest article...

Together, these results indicate that
syrup produced with High-Brix systems
has flavor that is generally appealing
and liked, and is characteristic of
pure maple syrup. While these results
do not provide an indication of whether
the use of High-Brix systems results
in any impacts on flavor, they do suggest
that the production of syrup with
High-Brix systems doesn’t generally
result in significant or adverse impacts
on syrup flavor.

HiBrix.jpg

[n8hutch]

I also think we may as a maple community want to be careful how we approach " Big Packer" syrup, there's an awful lot of Syrup out there and some of these guys selling retail in the Box Stores are certainly selling good syrup.but I could be in the minority on this opinion

[DaveB]

Not on our website yet, but from blind taste tests (generally from folks who know maple flavor, producers, packers, etc.) from a recent Maple Digest article...

Together, these results indicate that
syrup produced with High-Brix systems
has flavor that is generally appealing
and liked, and is characteristic of
pure maple syrup. While these results
do not provide an indication of whether
the use of High-Brix systems results
in any impacts on flavor, they do suggest
that the production of syrup with
High-Brix systems doesn’t generally
result in significant or adverse impacts
on syrup flavor.

Attachment 18485

That is interesting and I do appreciate the data. For me personally I have observed a difference but that might just be me. One time was when I was buying field syrup from a bulk buyer and he gave me a drum and I thought it didn't have a rich maple flavor, almost bland and he told me that it came from a producer that he knew ran his RO to a high brix. The other time came from a producer who did that by accident and you could tell the difference in his syrup. He even admitted that.

Anecdotally, I was in Lake Placid this past weekend and stopped by the Cornell sugarhouse near there and I asked them about their RO and one of the comments he made was you don't want to take the sugar too high or it will loose some of its flavor.

Like I said, I don't think it makes any syrup better or worse than another...it just tastes different to me.

Just out of curiosity, what was considered "high brix" in the survey? I'm wondering if that might be a difference.

[DrTimPerkins]

Just out of curiosity, what was considered "high brix" in the survey? I'm wondering if that might be a difference.

High brix was defined at 30-40 Brix in that study.

Over the years we have learned that a great deal of what people "perceive" as flavor comes from two things: their eyes and what they know about the syrup beforehand. If you don't let them see the syrup and don't tell them what it is, they usually have a very hard time. Most people are simply not able to strongly distinguish the multitude of complex flavors in maple, but can merely taste "sweet" and some level of "intensity" of flavor.

It is true that RO will produce lighter syrup as one increases in concentration ABOVE 8-10 Brix. Below 8-10 Brix, RO syrup is actually a tiny bit darker (probably due to heating of the sap/concentrate during the concentration process), but above that there is a gradual progression towards lighter syrup. That will affect flavor to some degree, it is just that it is not enough to be perceptible to most people.

On a related note, there was an interesting study of wines years ago. The researcher took expensive wine and put some of it in cheap bottles with labels of a much lesser reputation. They then served the good wine in the original bottles alongside the good wine in cheap bottles to a study group who knew wines well and asked for comparisons/comments/ratings. The wine in cheap bottles was invariably rated much worse than the SAME wine in the original good bottles. The wine industry was NOT amused by the study.

[prairietapper]

High brix was defined at 30-40 Brix in that study.

Over the years we have learned that a great deal of what people "perceive" as flavor comes from two things: their eyes and what they know about the syrup beforehand. If you don't let them see the syrup and don't tell them what it is, they usually have a very hard time. Most people are simply not able to strongly distinguish the multitude of complex flavors in maple, but can merely taste "sweet" and some level of "intensity" of flavor.

It is true that RO will produce lighter syrup as one increases in concentration ABOVE 8-10 Brix. Below 8-10 Brix, RO syrup is actually a tiny bit darker (probably due to heating of the sap/concentrate during the concentration process), but above that there is a gradual progression towards lighter syrup. That will affect flavor to some degree, it is just that it is not enough to be perceptible to most people.

On a related note, there was an interesting study of wines years ago. The researcher took expensive wine and put some of it in cheap bottles with labels of a much lesser reputation. They then served the good wine in the original bottles alongside the good wine in cheap bottles to a study group who knew wines well and asked for comparisons/comments/ratings. The wine in cheap bottles was invariably rated much worse than the SAME wine in the original good bottles. The wine industry was NOT amused by the study.

Same results in coffee tests..
most peoples preconceived perceptions seem to bias flavor tests more than the flavor variations do.

[markcasper]

Maybe this is not relative to the topic, but one sham that I see going on is many producers using their RO and/or vacuum use as aids in cutting down on global warming and climate change. The other, and less known, is there is a producer not far from me that claims his syrup is the BEST b/c of the special limestone in the soil beneath his trees. He claims it gives a flavor that sets it apart from everyone else's. When in all honesty, any of the syrup of theirs that
I have ever tasted has not been good at all.

[ennismaple]

Let's keep in mind that RO'd sap typically makes darker syrup than raw sap when it's concentrated to around 8% (see Results on p.13 in the link below) with little statistical difference in chemical composition.

http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/Effects%20o...erg%202015.pdf

- I was too slow typing.... Dr Tim beat me to it.

[DaveB]

High brix was defined at 30-40 Brix in that study.

Over the years we have learned that a great deal of what people "perceive" as flavor comes from two things: their eyes and what they know about the syrup beforehand. If you don't let them see the syrup and don't tell them what it is, they usually have a very hard time. Most people are simply not able to strongly distinguish the multitude of complex flavors in maple, but can merely taste "sweet" and some level of "intensity" of flavor.

It is true that RO will produce lighter syrup as one increases in concentration ABOVE 8-10 Brix. Below 8-10 Brix, RO syrup is actually a tiny bit darker (probably due to heating of the sap/concentrate during the concentration process), but above that there is a gradual progression towards lighter syrup. That will affect flavor to some degree, it is just that it is not enough to be perceptible to most people.

On a related note, there was an interesting study of wines years ago. The researcher took expensive wine and put some of it in cheap bottles with labels of a much lesser reputation. They then served the good wine in the original bottles alongside the good wine in cheap bottles to a study group who knew wines well and asked for comparisons/comments/ratings. The wine in cheap bottles was invariably rated much worse than the SAME wine in the original good bottles. The wine industry was NOT amused by the study.

30-40 brix is pretty high. As a meterologist and someone who works in the sciences I appreciate the empirical data.

Speaking of labels, we travel out to visit my brother who lives in Idaho each year and bring enough syrup to sell at the local farmers markets. The love getting syrup direct from a producer and one time there was this guy walking by and he was all excited that there was maple syrup but then saw our sign that we were from Stafford Springs, CT. His comment was "Oh great maple syrup! Oh, it's from Connecticut and not Vermont" and keeps walking by and doesn't buy any. I bring maple syrup 2,000 miles and he's going to be that picky? Really?

[Cedar Eater]

I plan to do blind side-by-side comparisons of my own RO and non-RO syrup with no more than a few samples at time. The question won't be "Do you like this?" or "Does this taste like maple syrup?". It will be "Which do you like better?" It would not surprise me to get "I like them all."

On a different note, I've heard from two different people this year who got gift syrup from friends that they didn't really like "homemade" maple syrup because it's "bitter" and "harsh". Both cookers used outdoor concrete block evaporators, so I assume the unpleasant taste came from the smoke. Maybe since RO would reduce the time in the smoke it would have a distinct advantage in that case.

[Russell Lampron]

It is true that RO will produce lighter syrup as one increases in concentration ABOVE 8-10 Brix. Below 8-10 Brix, RO syrup is actually a tiny bit darker (probably due to heating of the sap/concentrate during the concentration process), but above that there is a gradual progression towards lighter syrup.

My own experience was just the opposite. When I only concentrated to 8 Brix my syrup followed the color and flavor profiles of the sap for the time of the season. When I concentrated into the teens, the target number was 18 Brix, the nitre would burn in the flue pan and I made dark syrup from the beginning of the season right to the end. Most of it was grade B (now very dark strong) or darker with light syrup flavor. I built and added an air injection system and now rarely make anything darker than Amber and concentrate to 14 Brix.