Talked to the Codes Officer; this is INSANE...

[Bucket Head]

Yeastpimp,

He's doing good now. I should say that he was'nt in as bad of shape as some cancer patients to start with, fortunately. The ordeal of going through surgury twice due to carelessness was more traumatic. As for him looking good these days, I like to think it's because of the rigorous conditioning program that I make him participate in each year- its called the gathering sap with buckets program and starts around March 1st each year. I'd reccomend it to anyone.

The revenue generating part I spoke of was the building permit fee. My town requires that for an Ag building, but thats all they can do. Basically, anything thats town government-related requires you to open your wallet first. I'm sure your town is the same way. You pay at least twice for eveything. Everyone pays for their town government to run with their taxes, and then you pay again when they have to "provide" something to you. Yes, its a great system.

When you get time, get a hold of your friend who's the attorney, and/or Bill Magee, and/or the Farm bureau, etc., etc., and see what they say. I think everyone on this site is anxious to hear what they have to say in reponse to what you've heard from the codes department.

[maple flats]

Tim, how's you dad now? I hope he is strong enough to survive the doctors he has to deal with. It seems like any intelligent person (Dr or any other profession, even maple producer) would see cause and effect. You can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.
Back to your Codes person. They are truly mis-informed. When things calm down, follow the suggestions we have all given, step by step. You will come out smiling.
On a side note, many including myself have set up an evaporator on a wooden floor, but it is far from ideal. I ran a 2x6 on a wooden floor 3 seasons without incident, but I sure felt better when I got the concrete in. Mine wasn't on a second floor but what difference is it if on wood, at any floor. The main thing would be pumping the sap, and that should not be an issue. If you do chose to go that route, I'll tell you how I protected the floor from heat and sparks. If this route is chosen, it should be temporary rather than the final plan. It would cost less and take less time to set up, but when you can, proceed with a ground floor, preferably on concrete set up, and build the sugarhouse as it should be.

[Clarkfield Farms]

Thanks, Dave. Hey, I just posted on the thread you just started about the health benefits of REAL maple products. Remember how I was last year? lol!

As for my Dad, at 94 it's a lot harder to recover than at 93. He's OK, but just OK for now. This is the 3rd day in a row that he's supposed to be discharged to one of the local nursing homes for short-term rehab so that he can go home. But because they took him off IV fluids, and he isn't drinking NEARLY as much as he should be or needs to be, he got dehydrated again and his sodium levels are too low. They're trying to balance between getting him out of the hospital asap to minimize the risk of infection with making sure he'll be strong enough to do the PT/OT and eat/drink enough to get better and not land back in the hospital. If you read about a certain local doctor going missing, well....

I have a lot to do before I can get to the codes issue, but I will get to it. I'm hopeful that what now looks overwhelming will be a more pleasant reality once I rediscover the power of elected officials' influence. Even after I have a sugarhouse built, I'm still imagining about building a mobile evaporator. Just this morning at about 6AM I talked with a friend that makes trailers, he called to ask about my Dad, we got around to talking about maple syrup (yes he wants to buy some ) and I mentioned my ideas. He said that he knows of at least 3 that are used but in perfect condition, frame/axles/tires and wiring only, quite cheap. Just not sure if they're still available but they'd serve quite well for what I'm talking about. I only started thinking about having something mobile because of our family property up in Forestport; about 300 acres with gazillions of red maples, a smattering of sugar maples, and a lot of yellow birch. But no way would I be able to build a sugarhouse there, not likely even to have year-round tubing. The season is a lot later there, so once done down here -- well, a guy can dream, can't he?

Yeah, way too many "if's" about the barn anyways. The %&%$%^$ cats may outlive all of us anyhow.

[Clarkfield Farms]

PS - Dave, I went up to my sugarbush (if I can call it that, lol) yesterday evening in between times at the hospital; my sister said the guy that I rent to lower field to was up there to plow. I wanted to see if he had taken advantage of the little bit more land I opened up for him by clearing back some of the hedgerows (he did), and I took a quick look at some of the maples that I had tapped... still running strong. Oh well, it still makes me sick to think of what I consider "waste," but I have to think about how they'll hopefully run like this in the future and make the best of it.

OK NOW I've got to go!

[Revi]

If I was you I'd set up a collection tank and maybe vacuum in a trailer. Truck the sap to some place where you can boil it.

[Clarkfield Farms]

***UPDATE***

I haven't enough time to type all that's been going on and I'm frazzled; like the rest of you, I'm sure, with planting and everything else now that spring is here. I love living around here, we get at least 7 springs each year and so far this year we've had 17. We might get as many as 20! OK, kidding aside...

At the (as always) good advice from Dave Klish/maple flats, I emailed Assemblyman Bill Magee. Except that 2 weeks went by without a reply, so on Saturday I called the office to leave a message... Bill answered. A politician, answering his own phone, on a Saturday morning. But if you know him or have needed him before, you know that that's just the way Bill is. He assured me that he had indeed read my email and had forwarded the information along to the appropriate people and was surprised that no one had contacted me yet, and before we ended our conversation he said to expect a call on my cell phone no later than Tuesday (today). At 2:30 this afternoon, Bob Somers PhD., manager of the Agricultural Protection Unit, NYS Dept of Ag & Markets, called me to tell me that they will file on my behalf a request to review the laws of The Town of Paris to determine if they are excessively restrictive regarding farm structures, that this is the standard first step in defending small farm startups. I'm enclosing the body of the email that he followed up with, and if you look, HEY! HE'S ONE OF US!!! How cool is THAT?

There was a lot of other stuff that we talked about, no time for including that now. Anyways, here's the body of the email, cut & pasted:

"Timothy, as mentioned over the phone, your property is located within Oneida County Agricultural District No. 6 (see attached image). You would be considered a start-up farm and protected under the AML as a farm operation. I have included two questionnaires for you to complete. Please submit the questionnaires back to me via us mail, e-mail or fax. I will send a letter to the town alerting them of your request to conduct a review of their local zoning code as applied to your start-up farm. I have also attached a copy of a determination by the Dept. of State, Codes Division, that states that a sugar shack is an agricultural building as long as non-family members are not employed to process the sap. I am also in the process of building a sugarhouse on our property in Washington County. I found a Vermont Extension Service publication that includes two sets of plans for the construction of a sugarhouse. I am building the smaller one as attached. I have been working on it off and on and hope to put the tin on the roof and siding up this summer. Send me your address and I will send you a copy of the booklet. You may be interested in the larger building plans. If you have any questions, please contact me at any time. Bob"

He also sent attachments for applications for new farm startup, the appropriate questionnaires, and the map showing that the land is in Ag District #6, all necessary to get the ball rolling. HOWEVER, one caveat: After requesting from the town their copy of zoning/property laws, the town can take their sweet time replying/complying. And then they can sue if they feel that the State is being unreasonable, but the town has to prove that the reason they're denying me permission to build is because it is a clear danger to the public and/or public health. Although this is extremely unlikely and is not expected to happen, even without a lawsuit it may take all summer to get all the obstacles out of the way. GREAT! I figure it's now a race between the cats and the town as to which gives up the ghost first. I haven't got a favorite, I want 'em all out of the way.

OK, Tim out.

[Clarkfield Farms]

P.S. - - He also said that ANY lands, mine or not, contiguous or not, in the same town or county or not, that I rent for the purpose of farming, will be covered without any conditions. That also means any lands that I rent or lease for tapping maples. And, those lands get the same protection as mine! HAH! oh, GIIIINA!!!! Let's get ready to rumble!!!!! OK, no gloating. Besides, it isn't over yet.

[maple flats]

Tim, I was wondering what Bill had to say and how he was helping you. I'm glad things are heading in the right direction. Unfortunately those who "serve" do as little as possible to actually serve, Bill Magee is a huge exception. He grew up on a farm and then became an auctioneer, hawking all categories but maintaining a strong leaning towards anything farm related. Bill has been in the Assembly for as long as I can remember and serves as the Chairman of the House Agriculture committee. Now the best part, Bill still does as well as or better than when he was new in office. He follows through and as you commented, he even answers his own phone sometimes. He is a real people person and has the health of AG in NYS as his major focus.
I went thru much of what you are now and it does take far too long. After being denied, then told I had to petition the zoning board of appeals, then I had to wait for a public hearing. A few more hoops to jump through and after 5 months I got my approval. It took me 3 years to complete the total construction and get my Certificate of Occupancy. By that time I had learned that Ag buildings do not need any of that and commented to my Codes Officer about that. He agreed, Ag does not need a permit. It should be a punishable crime for these "Civil Servants" to cause such extra work for the Public to endure (in this case , me, the farmer.) I will bet that the next farmer who applied for a permit to build, without knowing he did not need one, got the same type of treatment all over again. That is just wrong!!!!!
Again, I'm glad this is moving forward for you. May they conceed and not drag their heels to make construction timing very difficult. In my case I applies in June and finally got the go ahead 2 days before Thanksgiving. That meant I had to work in wet/snowy weather rather than in shirtsleeves with plenty of time.
Dave

[NYmaplehelp]

Tim,
If you need any further assistance, the NYS Maple Producers Assn is ready to help. Jut give our office a call at 315-877-5795, or check out nysmaple.com for contact us info.
Helen Thomas
Executive director

[Clarkfield Farms]

Thank you, Helen. I will. I greatly appreciate this.

Also - today, at about 11:30AM, my cell phone rang. I had no idea who it could be, didn't recognize the #; a young lady asked if she was speaking to Mr. Clark, I replied that yes, she was, she identified herself as Laura from Assemblyman Magee's office. She asked if anyone had contacted me, I replied that Bob Somers had called yesterday afternoon. She was relieved to hear that since she had been specific about a deadline. I was amazed. She went over a lot of things related to these agricultural protection programs, and I was even more amazed at how MUCH protection we need from government regulations!!!! I know that I used the word, "insane," in the title of this thread with respect to the ordeal that I went through with the codes officer, but HOLY COW... we need to support organizations like NYSMPA and people like Bill Magee, no matter your political affiliation, no matter your location. We have to fight these fights on the local level but there's no way we can fight them alone and win. When you support guys like Bill you're doing it across the entire state, nevermind that he's not "YOUR" assemblyman, he chairs the NYS Ag Committee. Laura concluded the conversation by saying that Bob is right in saying that it could take awhile, maybe even all summer, but she has my file, OPEN, on her desk, with a post-it note on the front outside cover indicating that "This file is not to be closed or considered closed until Mr. Clark calls to tell us that he is SELLING maple syrup," and the file is to remain on her desk until that time.

I do believe I'm feeling a lot better about all of this... thanks, to all of you here, especially Dave, and Helen (I will be joining NYSMPA asap). And thanks to Bill Magee and Bob Somers, as well. And I suppose I should also thank Gina for getting all of this started in the first place. hmmmm...

And now a request for a little more help: In the questionnaire, I need to include a name for the farm... I think I'll start another thread in an appropriate forum here to get input on some names I've come up with. We'll see.

Thanks, again!

- Tim