Another newbie's question here

[Cake O' Maple]

Was just reading frjeff's question, and I'm doing something close to the same for my first year with my own stuff next spring. (I borrowed my neighbor's turkey frier last year for 6 taps.) I just bought a 105,000 BTU propane burner, thinking I may blow through the propane, but I should also blow through the sap!

BryanEx just said in frjeff's post: At 65,000 BTU you will be drawing more propane than a BBQ tank can handle over a longer period and they will freeze up reducing your boil rate.

So my question is, is there any way to keep the tank from freezing up? I've only used propane tanks this past spring, borrowed for the boiling, so am quite the novice with them.

My planned setup is in a large garage w/o a door, cement floor, 1" ceramic blanket on floor to keep cement from cracking w/ the heat, then walls of insulating firebrick surrounding the propane burner and about halfway up a double size 8" deep Vollrath pan, with hopefully 15 taps. Trees are in the yard, not a forest.

Also, any input on the planned setup? TIA

[Maple Ridge]

My first years was all propane. I never had any problem with freeze up. I don't think you will be running the burners fully open. I always brought it up to a good boil and adjusted the flame to keep it there. The tanks would get frosty but no issues with freeze up. All my boiling back then was outside in a tarp covered frame.

[Ausable]

Talk to Your Propane Dealer and explain to him what You are doing. He will tell you what size tank You need for your Burner output to prevent freezeup. Usually that is the answer to freezeup - the tank surface area above the liquid propane where the Gas forms is to small for the demand placed by the larger burner and thus freezeup.... should be a simple fix.

[BryanEx]

Usually that is the answer to freezeup - the tank surface area above the liquid propane where the Gas forms is to small for the demand placed by the larger burner and thus freezeup.... should be a simple fix.

This is correct. Propane boils at -40 degrees which is the process where it turns from liquid to gas. Just like with your evaporator pan, the larger the surface area the more you can boil (reduce freeze up). 100 pound tanks have a wider circumference than standard BBQ tanks which is why I recommend them but there are a few other ways to handle freeze up.

Have two 20 pound tanks and alternate as ice forms on the outside of each tank.

Keep pouring warm water over the tank as you see frost forming along the propane line.

Set the tank at a slight angle (not on it's side) to increase surface area.

BBQ tanks work just fine but squeezing all the efficiency out of them is far better than repeated trips to fill them up on a weekend.

[Cake O' Maple]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I feel much more prepared to handle potential freeze-ups now!

I got 2 used tanks, and was contemplating 1 or 2 more, so I didn't have to make daily trips to get propane on good flow days. If I run the burner full-tilt (which I don't expect to do) I am supposed to use a 20# tank in 4 hours... I really hope the firebrick does some serious cutting of amt of propane used.

I looked into renting/buying 100# tanks, and can buy them no problem, but do not have the ability to take them anywhere to be filled (I couldn't move them full, and do not have a way to transport upright), and no one will deliver that small an amount to where I live. Sure would like to save the repeated trips to town, tho.

How long 'til February, again????

[BryanEx]

I looked into renting/buying 100# tanks, and can buy them no problem, but do not have the ability to take them anywhere to be filled

This is a really good point I completely missed. I heat with propane so it's a cinch to have the local truck fill the tanks on site. Regular tanks icing up is not the end of the work but if you are trying to boil down sap you will want maximum "whoosh" for your buck. Another option would be to find the right fittings to run one burner off two tanks at the same time. That would also double your surface area for the liquid propane to evaporator and reduce icing. Just so you know, I used to boil all weekend on propane at 65,000 BTU and would use 2 full BBQ tanks in the process. Your burner is almost double that so plan on four full tanks for Friday if you need to boil all day both days. Shop around for propane prices too. I found a $20 difference per tank locally with Costco being the cheapest.

[sk8heaven]

This is a really good point I completely missed. I heat with propane so it's a cinch to have the local truck fill the tanks on site. Regular tanks icing up is not the end of the work but if you are trying to boil down sap you will want maximum "whoosh" for your buck. Another option would be to find the right fittings to run one burner off two tanks at the same time. That would also double your surface area for the liquid propane to evaporator and reduce icing. Just so you know, I used to boil all weekend on propane at 65,000 BTU and would use 2 full BBQ tanks in the process. Your burner is almost double that so plan on four full tanks for Friday if you need to boil all day both days. Shop around for propane prices too. I found a $20 difference per tank locally with Costco being the cheapest.

Bryan is right on about using the two tanks together...
I went to my propane dealer, explained to him what I was doing (running three 60,000 btu burners simultaneously) and he came up with the fittings and hose to manifold two 100 lb tanks together, I added a high pressure regulator and can run those two tanks down to almost nothing without freezing up. Previously I was using 20 lb cylinders on a single 54,000 btu burner and I could never get the whole tank emptied due to loss of pressure when they frosted up ....
With the two tanks manifolded together I can boil 160+ gallons of sap before changing bottles. Propane is definitely not the most cost effective ($116 for two bottles which comes out to roughly $30/gallon of syrup for me) but it gets me by until I get the wood fired arch.

[Cake O' Maple]

I heat with propane so it's a cinch to have the local truck fill the tanks on site.

I like your propane company! The first place I called is my LP supplier, as I heat w/ propane as well. Told them I was a customer, what I wanted to do, asked about rental and delivery of proane for 100 lb tanks. They won't deliver less than 200 gallons, no way, no how.

Thanks for the idea about 2 tanks at once, would never have thought of it. I'll look into the fittings. Thanks also, for the amt you used w/ the BTU's you had. It helps plan. Did you have an open burner, or did you do anything to keep the heat in?

Sk8heaven, thanks for the details on linking 2 tanks and the ability to empty them! BTW, my sister lives abut 3 hours east of you, in Biwabik! It's beautiful up there, but not too many maples. I laugh when I go, because down here, the maples are in the woods and the birch in the yards, and there, the birch are in the woods, and the maples in the yards!

[BryanEx]

Thanks for the idea about 2 tanks at once, would never have thought of it. I'll look into the fittings. Thanks also, for the amt you used w/ the BTU's you had. It helps plan. Did you have an open burner, or did you do anything to keep the heat in?

For hooking up two tanks you basically need a Y adapter. You may be able to find something at your local propane supplier or maybe an RV center but I suspect you will have to turn to the Internet to get the right set up.

I stated out with an open burner and then quickly added a wind shield made out of old tin roofing. My second year I stacked bricks around the burner and just a little higher than the sap level in the pot which made a noticeable difference in efficiency. Just be sure to not have any combustibles (like deck boards ) anywhere near it because both the brick and everything inside them will get really hot.

[Cake O' Maple]

Just be sure to not have any combustibles (like deck boards ) anywhere near it because both the brick and everything inside them will get really hot.

Hmmm, is there a story there?