Coming to all of us soon, atleast Vermont

[802maple]

Hey 802maple, your gonna give me a heart attack! start a thread on somthing less stressful ! I gotta find a thread i can handle

What do you mean like how you don't use someones scoop when they are drawing off syrup. hehehehe

[maplwrks]

My take on all of this is this---These inspections are not being driven by government, but by large chain stores that buy their syrup from packers. These stores want to know that their syrup is being produced under a few sanitary conditions. The guideline proposal that Beanie wrote about is a guideline for sugarmakers to go by as to what to expect during an audit. Tim Wilmot drew up these guidelines with help from the Maple Industry Council. These audits will not affect everyone, but would probably start as audits for producers that bulk a lot of their syrup. I'm told that the producer would probably pay for the audit, if they want to sell their syrup to a packer. If I'm mis informed, please, someone set me straight!

[Dennis H.]

One good thing about our own org. policing ourselves is that they would understand what it takes to make maple syrup and what hardships we must deal with unlike an FDA inspector who only knows what to look for from a special "TRAINING" course he took at a computer in an office in some big city.

Another problem with all this policing ourselves how many of us on the trader are "REAL" offenders of any of these proposed laws? And if there are any here how many will admit that they are doing something that they know is wrong? They probably feel that they have been making syrup that way for years and they are still kicking so nothing is wrong with what the are doing.

So than the question is how do you go about informing and convincing the ones that do not visit the Trader that they need to change a few things in thier operation?

I guess sending out letters to producers that there may be changes in the work that they may have to adhere to to sell bulk syrup to packers is what is needed to be done.

[Dennis H.]

And I do agree with the statement that the only reason that we will have to have some means of tracking our syrup to the producer is so that blame can be passed on.

But how will that be done really? The packers are not going to keep everyones syrup seperate when they repack it. They will even mix different producers syrup together, so how do they determine whos was the problem?

[bobbyjake]

Police ourselves before "the man" does it. Really!! Lets call this what it is - an attempt by the same "reputable few" to make their lives easier and to increase their profits by increasing their ability to market OUR product to the HUGE buyers. Note that this fact is not hidden in the literature - General Mills and others are wanting the producers certified; Hell, even testimonials that buyers have walked out when they found out that hair nets are generally not part of the sugarmakers uniform. Clearly if Bascom’s saw a market in hairnets, they would be in the catalogue (I expect a commission on this marketing effort if they show up in the next one).

When Government sets ridiculous standards, we all laugh and gripe, but if these guidelines have truly originated from our industry, why are there such items as:

1. No mold shall come in contact with sap, syrup anytime during production - not possible anyway, but particularly so if you have any plastic in your operation at all, including tubing. Slime on membranes, anyone venture a guess as to what that is: bacteria, mold dirt, minerals, other "contaminants". Not possible in sugaring or in any sugaring process – cane sugar for example. Can it be minimized - absolutely but it can't be eliminated? Not hardly.

2. Potable water only shall come in contact with equipment. Unless ALL of your sap is piped right to the sugarhouse (and there are very very few operations where this is plausible), you can't ensure that your equipment won't get splashed by muddy water. Even dairy farms aren't under such a delusion. Again, can we all try to keep things clean – certainly but setting an unachievable standard is setting yourself up for failure.

This is a food product and needs to be treated and handled as such - Agreed!! Police ourselves – fine. But don’t tell me that this is what this is, when it is not.

[sugarmountain]

exactly, well said. I am 36 years old and was brought up sugaring and its funny, i can remember when i was probably 12 my father and the county forester were having the exact same discussion (which was rather heated) in our old sugarhouse. I think it ened with the old man telling me "Boy, Dont Ever Trust The gubmunt" pretty holarius.

[maplecrest]

as i see it this is the way to go in the maple industry. i have the vt or what was the vt seal of quality. that inspection is not far off from what is asked.the inspection was a few hours and require all stainless steel tanks, evap, even the the canning table and racks we store the syrup jugs on.the "chemicals" stored where? in a safe place? the only question i have jerry would be what is cosidered potable water?? i have 2500 gallons of premeate storage that is used to wash hands ,tanks , evap, r/o ect. hot water off evap for washing filterpress ,hands ect . my question is what is not potable about that pure water???that is the only thing on your list that we donot have a clear idea about.is a drilled well required? the record keeping for bulk as well as our retail sales if done from start filling drum,#, grade, and a small glass sample bottle for later testing, before opening drum. then after canning each jug has a code of date syrup made and date bottled.any question on product is easily answered.once you get develop a system of record keeping it is not had to keep it going. gives us an idea each year of what to jug , how many of each grade,size ect.has been very useful to us.

[Haynes Forest Products]

So we all will be taking classes in proper chemical handling. Is permeate considerd a chemical or a toxic waste. Will I need to have a MSDS sheets on all products that are in the bldg. So the guy cooking my Burger can wipe his hands on his appron all day long but I need disposible 1 use towels to dry my hands after I spill syrup on them How about glove liners so after you fire up the arch you can test the syrup without washing your hands. You will need to wash your scoops after every use and tripple rinse it before returning to the finish pan. Oh yea can you buy foodgrade spray nozzels for your foodgrade garden hose that you use to supply water to your foodgrade power washer. Yea lets find some foodgrade power washer hose to wash of the foodgrade tires on my &^*^^%%$#$%% NON foodgrade truck

[nhmaple48]

It does'nt surprise me that this is coming from the other side of the river.In the early 1900'sthe Communist party targeted Vt.as a small ,rural state they could overtake.The Nearing's were at the forefront of this movement.Judging from the laws,rules.regulations that have been passed in the last 50 or so years as well as the politicians that get elected they have pretty much suceeded.

[Clan Delaney]

I think there is a difference between a state's maple producers association setting minimum guidelines regarding the production of maple syrup, in exchange for their support, and the use of their jugs and name, and a Department of the State government issuing licences as permission to produce, or having the power to certify or decertify. My understanding is the first is an attempt to police ourselves, and the second is having the policing done to us.

Unfortunately the two will inevitably mix. An association can issue guidelines, but they don't want to have to become an enforcement agency for those guidelines. The simplest solution is to utilize existing enforcement entities, and try to work closely with them. Rules, guidelines, standards - they have no bite without the ability to enforce them. State associations with the power to enforce their standards are in practice no different from a state agency doing the same thing.

If packers start to insist on guarantees of production standards, and your business model depends on that packer, you're going to have to provide that guarantee. The best deal for the producers is to be an integral part of the creation and maintenance of those guarantees, even if doing so means giving the enforcement part over to "government". If it were me, I'd rather have the inspector in my establishment holding me to standards I helped define than the ones he invented.

No easy answers. Never are. Compromise: Everyone dissatisfied to an equal degree.