New to tubing with some questions

Hi all and thank you in advance... and sorry in advance for the long post.

So I read nearly every thread over 15 pages so far that somewhat relates to me but like everybody else I still have unanswered newbie questions.

So as a background I'm definitely a hobbyist with a full time job, a wife and 2 kids (9&11). I have 7.5 acres of land and about 3 acres of woods with minimal slope and some low lying wetlands in the woods. Last year I tapped 50 trees with 5/16th and buckets (mostly all reds). I had some success averaging about 30 gallons of sap a week. So going into this coming season I wanted to get better and try to get more sap (hoping for around 75-100 a week). I added onto my Shack to make room for a 275 oil tank arch that will accommodate a 2x4 flat pan (an upgrade from my 20"x20" flat pan on my 55 gallon burner). I've also cleared my woods of all overgrowth barberries and vines for the last week and a half 😳. The last few days I've spent out there with a transit planning my runs.

Here are my problems/questions:

I've found on my 1st run of 150 feet I have 12' of elevation change. I'd have 16 trees on that run. On my 2nd run with 9 trees I have 3' elevation change over 130' coming in the direction of run #1. Both of those runs would be collection point number one.

Run #3 I have 7' of elevation change over 140' and I'd have 16 trees on that run dumping into collection point number two.

On the other side of my property I have run number 4 with 14 trees and 3' of elevation change over 145'. North of that I have run #5 with 8 trees and 3' of elevation change Over 90'. Both of these runs would be collection point number 3.

This is the absolute best case scenario I could come up with after surveying for 2 days. With the land that I have, where there are several low lying areas and no better elevation than what I have unless I tap higher in the trees, this is best case scenario. I figured worst case scenario I have only 3 collection point vs. 50+.

What would be recommendations for lines, 3/16th or 5/16 based on all of the info above? I had the idea in my head of 3/16th zig zagging from tree to tree(just a hobbyist), but I'm not sure 3/16 will be counterproductive or not based on my elevation issues?

Any help or ideas would be so helpful... my wife has been on my back about being on my phone for hours and days. She doesn't believe me when I tell her I'm on a maple forum reading about collecting sap😂

I'm not sure pumps would be a possibility because they'd have to be run on a 12v in the elements with solar because I don't have power back in my woods.

Again, I appreciate any feedback... I'd take calls 4846958381 or visitors to 18038 👍🏼 for some hot dogs, burgers and beer, haha.

In all seriousness though, I really appreciate this place and how much information I have gathered over the past year reading!

Thank you so much!

Mick

With the limited fall you have available, you need to stick to 5/16. Slope will be a big issue for you and keeping lines tight with no sag will be your only option.

I agree, 5/16 is called for when the slope is that limited. However, I would suggest you try tapping a foot or 2 higher on the far end.
Another approach that could gain a nice increase is to put in some 12V vacuum (or even run a cord out to run 120V) if you can fit it in your budget. A diaphragm pump can increase the flow, some people get close to double the sap if you keep the leaks in check. A diaphragm pump needs no releaser and it can both pull sap/air and push both. Study threads on those neat little pumps. You might even be able to combine 2 collection points utilizing one pump and push the sap to your sugarhouse or to another collection point. Those pumps however do not do well for sap ladders.

I ran 50 taps on a 12v shurflo pump ($80) last year and 3/16 tubing. On my best run i collected close to 150 gallons after my pump ran all night. My average was 50 to 75 gallons a day, less on slow days. Hope this is helpful.

So I guess I'm going 5-16 then. How much difference can I expect on 5/16 vs buckets, say if I averaged 30 gallons a week on buckets?

Before I start thinking about 12v batteries and pumps and trickle chargers or solar($$$) I'd like to have an idea what I can expect on 5-/16 gravity lines vs. buckets.

Thanks for the responses guys!

Running an extension cord is out of question because I have about 800' to go from the house and I'd need a pump on the far left and on the far right of the woods because of my terrain if I were to do pumps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSS2017

How much difference can I expect on 5/16 vs buckets, say if I averaged 30 gallons a week on buckets?

---

Assuming you were using good sanitation practices, you'd expect to get about the same with buckets and 5/16" gravity tubing assuming your layout was good and you did have some minimal amount of slope to allow drainage. DO NOT VENT THE LINES. In this case (low/no slope), you'd end up with less sap with 3/16" tubing due to backpressure in the lines.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins

Assuming you were using good sanitation practices, you'd expect to get about the same with buckets and 5/16" gravity tubing assuming your layout was good and you did have some minimal amount of slope to allow drainage. DO NOT VENT THE LINES. In this case (low/no slope), you'd end up with less sap with 3/16" tubing due to backpressure in the lines.

---

Thanks Dr. Tim. So going to 5/16 lines will net me the same amount of sap as last year as I did on buckets unless I add pumps?

When you say DO NOT VENT THE LINES I'm assuming you mean don't leave the high end of the lines open? Add a gauge or cap the end lines?

Thank you again

Correct, never let air into the lines to drain sap. That contaminates inside the tubing and gets micro organisms growing faster, which then reduce the sap flow from the tap hole.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maple flats

Correct, never let air into the lines to drain sap. That contaminates inside the tubing and gets micro organisms growing faster, which then reduce the sap flow from the tap hole.

---

Thanks Dave. That's what I figured in all my reading this far.

I really wanted to avoid pumps but now... 😳

How many taps can go on a 5/16 line with a pump?