Discouraged and down

Hi everyone,

So we have a little 2 acre lot with about 1200' of 1 inch main and probably only 100 taps or so. Last year we tried to run a guzzler and after walking the lines for days only got about 7'' out of it, that was after turning the ladder off. This year we got a hobby releaser for our delaval 73. It ran awesome for a few days (spitting tons of oil though). Initially it was able to pull 27'' so we idled it down and leaked it to 20'' so it wouldn't overheat. We let it run for a long day because of better than ideal weather. When we went to start it up the next morning, it pulled 20'' then about ten minutes later vac dropped down to 17, then a few minutes later nothing! So we are in contact with Ben who has been great at helping us figure out what is going on with our delaval. So I grabbed last years guzzler in hopes that since the delaval was able to pull so many inches that the guzzler should do well also…. apparently not….ZERO inches!!!, there must be leaks or something but we redid our setup to increase gravity's help and still nothing! It is a new diaphragm and when I turned the mainline off about 3 feet from the pump, I could hear it starting to labor, so I know the potential for work to be done is there. Does anyone know potentially why there is such a difference, other than a leak somewhere?

I don't know if anyone else has had as many issues as us. We seem to hit road block after road block, and it is so stressful, and we are so tiny! People with 20 taps on buckets are getting almost as much as we are getting with 100 on high vac! We are at our wits end.

Thanks
Mike

If the pump starts to labor only after you close off the main line, then the tubing/taps are more likely an issue than the pumps, I think.

As said if you dead head the pump and it starts laboring your issue is leaks in the woods. Could be squirrel chews, taps popped loose, saddles leaking. Those diaphragm pumps can not over come much for leaks. The Delaval pump should be able to handle much more leaks as it would have substantially more cfm. If you have multiple shut offs you can isolate areas where the biggest leaks are.

One of the biggest offenders is many types of saddles. They may not seal well. Try tightening the saddles a little.

Thanks guys, and classically the season is just getting going and everything stops working.

I also forgot to mention with the guzzler I could see the lines pulsing, the sap would go up and down about an inch.

I appreciate the info.
Mike

I think I would add 3-4 valves to the system so you can isolate the problem area. Then start the system up with all the valves closed off. Open the valves one at a time until you locate the section which causes you to completely lose vacuum. I don't have any experience with vacuum on maple sap collection systems, but have battled vacuum problems in industrial applications for many years. You might also use an air compressor to pressure the system to a very low pressure i.e. less than 5 psi and walk the lines listening for the leak. Good luck.

I second what Bowhunter says about installing some valves to isolate sections. It makes it much easier finding leaks putting all your vacuum to one section at a time.

On lines that long I put a ball valve and a vac gauge every couple hundred feet..it will let you do a vac check on each section...and keep everything flowing up to the bad section...

not sure about the guzzler don't even know wha tthey are, but if its pulsing, i would maybe think that there a point where its losing its vacuum suction, and the vac level fluctuates. as far as you were describing the vacuum starting at 20, down to 15, then down to nothing.........i bought a 78 years ago and learned this same way. 25 overheats them, i ran mine 25 first year with same thing happening, they overheated and would not slide freely in and out of slots so many days i had to open housing and free them up in am, i kept trying this and eventually same thing happened ended up at nothing. i believe they overheated and became damaged so i bought new ones for 75 bux online and ran no more than 20, ran fine for past 3 years. mine was rapping pretty good as they were sticking since when they stick they lose contact with housing and when enough centrifugal force is applied (about halfway thru housing) they slide out slamming the housing creating the "rapping" noise many speak of. get new veins, make sure housing is smooth burr and nick free. it only takes 10 minutes to change them, soak newones in oil overnight

I don't have vacuum either but can individual laterals be pinched off systematically with a vice grip or something until the culprit is identified?

The rapping sound is most generally a vein that is damaged and only slides part way out and the rap is the vein slamming the housing at the pint that the vein is able to protrude out of the rotor to. This is very easy to detect in the housing by a wavy at a point in the housing. Usually you will find 2 or as many as four of these waves at different points on the housing since generally all veins don't have the same point of damage.

Last night the issue with the 73 was discovered tobe the rotor is spinning on the shaft. Relatively easy weld job and possible will need to dress the housing.

We never got our guzzler to work a ladder we tried to replace the ladder but found it was to much work bringing pump back and forth everyday so it would not freeze.

Isolation valves are the best answer to eliminate sections and locate the issue point. I need to install a lot more valves...it cost me a lot last season as I could not find a drop that detached on the back side of a tree over the brook bank. I would have capped the saddle had I known where the leak was. To much snow to safely check without a rope holder.

Just think after all your troubles you will be a master faultfinder. LOL

When at the bottom up is the only route available.

Good Luck Guys!

Ben

Thanks everyone. Good news we welded our rotor to the shaft (it was spinning freely). Everything went back together great and we were back up and running.

HUGE thanks to Ben for his help walking us through our delaval trouble. he really knows his stuff!!!

THANKS BEN!!

Mike

Welcome Mike!

Glad it was a quick repair.

Ben

Glad you were able to get it going again with a relatively easy fix. The shaft to drum connection is one of the weak links in the DeLaval vacuum pumps. They used a press fit to hold them in place and over time the shafts can spin in the drum.

Glad to hear you are back up and running. You'll still want to check for leaks as to why your guzzler was not performing well. It will help increase the sap yield for the vacuum.

We had a guzzler (sap puller) for two years. I found when everything was tight we could get 23-25" vacuum. However this is not vacuum with any CFM to back it up...hence why the ladders don't work well or at all. I found with 2-3 broken taps 2 two squirrel chews I was down to about 12" vac. on the puller. Have you checked the membrane on the guzzler. Ours would fail to hold vac. if it had cracks. Remove the shield and watch it move and you'll see some cracks where it folds. We ran our guzzler with about 1500' of 1" mainline and for about 300 taps. It worked great. We stepped up to a full vacuum system last year and it was that much better with the CFMs.

Good luck,

Mike