Questions About Selling Sap

I plan on selling sap from a Northeast Kingdom farm we recently bought. I'm new to this business and have the following questions.

1. How does the price of bulk sap get set?

2. Who sets the price?

3. Is there an area price or do individual sap buyers set their own price?

4. Does the price vary during the sugaring season?

5. What is the spread between sap bought at the sugar bush and sap delivered to the buyer?

6. How many gallons of sap should I get from each tap?

Thanks in advance for any answers.

While prices vary widely, from buyer to buyer, sap is priced by the buyer most often. I am only familiar with my pricing. I only buy sap brought to the sugarhouse and I use the suggested pricing from the "Maple Journal". Each year, before the season they publish a recommended price chart, based on a 50/50 split. It varies by sap sugar %, the higher the sugar, the higher the price. A typical average is 2% but that varies widely dependant on the trees. A nicely thinned bush gives better % that one with crowded trees. Even after thinning, it takes time for the crowns to fill in. The better the crown the higher the sugar%. For sap, if using buckets a good average might be 15-20 gal sap/season, tubing on medium vacuum about the same and tubing on high vacuum might get 25-30 gal/season in an average season. Tubing on gravity gets considerably less. There is a new method on gravity that gets good results, if you have good elevation drops (slope) you can use 3/16" tubing and get good natural vacuum. For that read up on 3/16" tubing design methods.
In my case, the price only varies by the sugar %.
If you are looking at a large volume of sap, some larger producers might pick up, but the price will be considerably lower.
Last season, 2% sap was about $.36/gal. The sap must be clean, clear, fresh and must taste and smell good.

The larger producers in Vermont are paying as much as 62% of the bulk syrup value. Not sure how they are doing the calculation with regards to the varying sugar content and/or syrup grades. If you go to the Cornell website you can find a spread sheet that Mike Farrel developed for this purpose. If you want to keep it simple do what Flats suggests and use the price list published each spring in the Maple Digest. Good luck.

ohio maple producers association has this

http://www.ohiomaple.org/sap-app.html

I paid based on same chart as Maple Flats delivered to sugarhouse. Always looking for more sap

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Originally Posted by FinallyGreen

I plan on selling sap from a Northeast Kingdom farm we recently bought. I'm new to this business and have the following questions.

1. How does the price of bulk sap get set? (It gets set by the price of bulk syrup).

2. Who sets the price? ( The price of syrup is set mainly by Canada and the price of sap is set by the sap buyer).

3. Is there an area price or do individual sap buyers set their own price? ( In general the price of sap is higher in Northern Vermont and is about 60-70% of bulk price. Anywhere else it is around 50% because their is less buyers in the area. If there is only one buyer in your area you can bet your going to get screwed.)

4. Does the price vary during the sugaring season? ( Yes it does. The price is based on the grade of syrup your sap is making. Early and mid season sap pays the most and then late season sap pays less. On average you can expect .30-.50cents per gallon for the season.)

5. What is the spread between sap bought at the sugar bush and sap delivered to the buyer? ( About 5-10% in my area.)

6. How many gallons of sap should I get from each tap? ( With a good set-up and high vacuum you should get between 20-30 GPT. Tree size will have a lot to do with this. Sugar content will also be a big factor with tree size. I average 1.7% when others will get 2.5 or better.)

Thanks in advance for any answers.

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(your welcome)

Spud

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Originally Posted by spud

(your welcome)

Spud

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The King has spoken

Hey if you can get a buyer like spud has you are set!

I have not heard of anyone in the north east kingdom paying what Spud is getting.

Finally green- I think youll just have to go around to the local producers close to you and see what they are willing to pay. If there is a couple they might want to compete to get your sap especially if you do quite a bit of volume. Hopefully it will work out for you but if nobody wants to buy the sap theres nothing you can do about that. If that turns out to be the case youll just have to modify your plan and gear up to process it yourself if you still want to do it. Just have to see whats available in your area. Youll have to get a feel also if you can trust them to really buy all your sap if your going to put in a lot of taps because you don't want to spend all that money running tube, get thousands of gallons of sap and then have no place to go with it. Youll just have to look and ask around and feel things out.

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Originally Posted by wiam

I have not heard of anyone in the north east kingdom paying what Spud is getting.

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In the NEK the best I've heard is a guy in Holland is paying 55%. Most pay around 50% or less. I should truck my sap over the mountain to Franklin County.

Well, I am more than willing to volunteer for research!

I'm having heck of a time finding someone to buy sap from! I'm in Herkimer County, NY (Southwestern Adirondack Park). Been " putting feelers out" through our organization (NY Maple Producers Assoc), this site and others and still can't find a person looking to sell sap. I'll pay more as I'm not looking to do any syrup split. Even be willing to pickup if right situation!

Been researching various avenues, payment schedules, various spreadsheets etc. Even meeting with some of the good folks at Cornell in coming weeks to discuss finances (not just sap buying but all finance questions regarding sugaring in general)....just need to put plan into action and find a good, reliable sap seller!! :lol:

What you need to do is continue to get the word out that you want sap. It's getting to late for someone to set-up a woods for the upcoming season. You also need to post what you would be willing to pay. If your add said something like ( looking to buy maple sap and willing to pay 65% ) a person at home could start doing the math and think about setting up their woods. A lot of people that might be interested in selling sap may think that 50% is all they would get. Most small operations or poorly set-up larger operations could only pay 50%. You mentioned you would pay more so that tells me your set-up is good. A person confronted Mike Farrell a few years ago saying that their was no way they could show profit buying sap at 60%. Mike asked them a series of questions about their set-up and came to the conclusion that if they bought sap at 60% they would profit $300.00 an hour. Mike then asked them if they made that at their real job. The person had nothing to say after that. People in your area might have a sizable sugar woods that they would consider setting up if the price was right. A potential sap seller needs to be assured that your in it for the long run. They don't want to set up a woods for a one or two year deal. So if you post the percentage you are willing to pay and then maybe and average per gallon amount that could help entice someone to bite. I wish you the best.

Spud

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Originally Posted by spud

Mike asked them a series of questions about their set-up and came to the conclusion that if they bought sap at 60% they would profit $300.00 an hour. Mike then asked them if they made that at their real job. The person had nothing to say after that. Spud

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Isn't that the truth not everyone can make that much buying sap, but a good set up as you say Spud should have no problem making a profit buying sap. In many cases the purchased sap doesn't add much to the daily labor of the sugar maker.

Keep your feelers out for sap it is still early enough that a lot can happen someone could decide they want to tap or someone could have mechanical issues that sends sap your way. Put up a sign. It is one of those things that if you are in the right areas someone might have tapped in the past and might decide to do it again if they didn't have to boil. Like me I know a couple of guys who haven't tapped in a few years like 3-4 (they quit when their old buyer cut their %) and they have mentioned bringing me sap time will tell they are all buckets not tons of sap, but it won't add much to my days work and should be good for both of us.

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Originally Posted by Jmsmithy

Well, I am more than willing to volunteer for research!

I'm having heck of a time finding someone to buy sap from! I'm in Herkimer County, NY (Southwestern Adirondack Park). Been " putting feelers out" through our organization (NY Maple Producers Assoc), this site and others and still can't find a person looking to sell sap. I'll pay more as I'm not looking to do any syrup split. Even be willing to pickup if right situation!

Been researching various avenues, payment schedules, various spreadsheets etc. Even meeting with some of the good folks at Cornell in coming weeks to discuss finances (not just sap buying but all finance questions regarding sugaring in general)....just need to put plan into action and find a good, reliable sap seller!! :lol:

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ah you have reached the great problem of Northern NY, where everybody feels the need to produce their own maple syrup, some with modern equipment, and some with their grandfathers 1950's 4x14 king arch and pans. keeping searching, but don't get discouraged because I know where you're coming from considering I live in Lewis County, NY where I have no less that 10 sugarmakers around me with a 5 minute drive

Thx guys. I will continue pounding the Internet, our Organization etc. Only I don't think sign will do much good. We at the end of two mile gravel road!

If you hear of anyone within hour or so of Cold Brook NY pm me! I'm in!!

I understand Jake that Lewis County is a place to search....:lol: