hauling sap with a tractor

I was wondering if anyone out there has any experience with hauling sap with a tractor? I am looking into a bush about a few miles down the road that would be all up hill at a steady moderate incline. It looks to have about 2500 taps. I would like to be able to haul a 1550 gallon tank. The road is straight ,wide and paved. At 1550 gallons plus the tank and trailer I would figure it weighting at least 13,000 pounds. braking should not be much of an issue , it will never be going down hill loaded . I suppose I could also just haul 1000gallons at a time if I had to. I am hoping to buy about a 45 hp Kubota or something else in that range. Any info would be helpful. Thanks Luke

That much weight you would need a 100hp plus tractor to handle it safely, even bigger if slippery. You braking is not much of an issue, but you get the sap sloshing around and that size load will push you right off the road if you don't have a tractor of equal weight or bigger in front of it. I farmed for 35 years and hauled a lot of sap with tractors, it takes much bigger tractor than you would think to handle that size load safely, remember you only have brakes on 2 wheels to stop it.

Lets say that I always filled it right up to reduce sloshing. Had a good tongue weight on the tractor and had tire chains on all the time . How much sap would a 45 hp Kubota tow. Keeping in mind that I over load everything I own . I checked the Kubota web site and they don't list a tow rating. My other option is my 4 cylinder Toyota Tacoma. its rated to tow 3500 lbs but I have towed closer to 5000lbs without much difficulty. I use to put a cage tank in it filled up to about 250gallons. It didn't like it but I always made it back. I need a tractor for other things so I was hoping it could haul more sap than my truck. I know that a full size truck would do the trick but I am getting a tractor anyway and the full size truck would just sit there the rest of the year.

I think a 45hp tractor would haul better than your Tacoma.

How much does the tractor weigh? It won't tow more than its own weight safely and it won't stop more than about half it's weight. Syrup season is slippery season so down rate again for the conditions.

I pull 125 gals with a 4000 lb 4wd tractor. It's comfortable but you know its there. II wouldn't want to pull 250 gals with the same tractor.

I have a kioti 45hp 4wd tractor that weighs apprx 5500lbs with the front loader attachment on it and loaded tires. if this helps you estimating the weight of your tractor. Im putting my 425 gal tank on a trailer this year and towing it with this tractor. also next year I will own another dump trailer, heavy duty construction type. I plan on putting my 725gal horizontal tank it for gathering.

I have hauled in my Polaris ranger 2 55gal drums full of sap. scary YES but doable, of coarse. I have now gone to a 65gal horiz tank in the back and make more trips.

I have hauled a lot of water over my years. I had several liquid transport trucks with tanks from 200-2000 gallons. Even with those we kept the net weight no more than half the gross weight of the vehicle. All tanks were baffled to prevent weigh shifting, it matters less than you think whether the tank is full. I had one driver who didn't respect the weight shift and he found himself crawling out a truck window in a ditch and lucky to be alive! Do noot take chances, get a smaller tank and make more trips, your family would rather you miss supper than life with them.

This is my first year hauling sap, I am used to hauling and towing wood. With that said, my 6000lb, 35hp kubota l3540 will tow my 6'/12' dump trailer heaped with logs, about 10k, pretty easy

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Originally Posted by Outdoorsman0490

With that said, my 6000lb, 35hp kubota l3540 will tow my 6'/12' dump trailer heaped with logs, about 10k, pretty easy

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But will it stop it going downhill on snowpack?

The sap alone in the 1550 gal tank will be 12934lbs, a trailer capable of hauling that much weight is going to have to be at least 2500-3000lbs so I think you are looking at a 15500-16000lbs load. I like to over load things as well and there is no way I would do it with my 46hp Kubota

The full load on a incline is not as much of an issue as the half load. The surge in the tank can be a big issue. I use a 500g tank to water cattle in droughts. it is on two RR ties with a hole sawed out, for the tank feet. the tank is ratched down and will slide on a 6% slope and move when you stop. It is often better to haul a full load slowly than a half load. changing gears in a hill is where you will have an issue also.

800gallons of molasses will jerk a 20000# truck around at a light. remember that side slosh is better than fore and aft slosh. A quick turn of the wheel will stop a Fore slosh.

All bets are off if it is a round vertical storage tank on a truck. that's just crazy.... no way to control the flow in them. But that is 20 yrs of tank delivery talking. Seen the accidents and read the reports. Most tank accidents are partial loads that were driver error.

Never tried that, but I wouldn't want to find out first hand

I have a 1000 nurse tank, like the coop uses to haul liquid fert. have a small generator mounted on front along with a 100 gal stock tank to dump buckets in. I have a jd 5310 [55 hp] tractor and when full it will handle good on the frozen ground or roads, but if the woods or the field is soft it can be too much.

Sap and wood are two completely different loading scenarios. Logs are relatively stable compared to sap. Luke stated he had an all uphill run to the bush for a few miles, I assume going up will be empty so we are concerned with coming down, right. Stopping that load in a short distance would be one thing, but keeping it from gaining momentum over a long grade is another. Sure you can gear down, but I wouldn't torture my tractor like that if I planned on keeping it. The one variable that hasn't been discussed a lot is what kind of trailer are you hauling on and does it have breaks? Good trailer breaks will make a difference big time. Your looking at at least a trailer rated for 8 tons with duel or tri axles and I'd want a hydraulic brake system.

I know what I would do. I'd find a good used truck of at least 26,000 GVW and mount the tank on it. You will save enough time and fuel to pay for it and be a lot safer. You can find old road trucks for very reasonable prices. It doesn't have to be pretty.

What kind of tank are we talking? If it's stainless have baffles welded in it. Fifteen hundred gallons of unrestrained sap (and for some runs half loads) going down the road at speed is a scary thought to me. If you get a high center of gravity you will learn what it's like to lay that thing over. I'm not trying to scare you, I want you to be safe. Trust me I have hauled millions of gallons of water. I have also seen more than one truck or trailer totally trashed due to improper hauling, not to mention potential injury. Still if your careful about curves and gear down on hills you can safely haul in unbaffled tanks just be aware of the load shift....you'll learn after just a trip or two, water hauling has a short learning curve for most.

I used to haul sap with an old stainless milk tank 1500 gal mounted on a chevy c-60. It was a great rig because it was setup so a majority of the weight was carried on the rear axle. Truck would go threw mud and snow like crazy especially with a set of chains on. However, on our winding roads, you had to pay attention like crazy going into corners especially with less the absolute full load because the slosh of sap would want to put you over the bank. Hauling liquid is like no other payload. It has a mind of its own and doesn't like to change direction of movement.

We haul sap in a Kawasaki Mule. It has a 125 gal tank in the back. When full it at the max GVW of the rig but does handle it OK. I figure 8# per gallon so about 1,000 lbs loaded full. It does have brakes at all 4 wheels though, unlike the tractor. It is always better to be cautious.

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ok so it seems like 1550 gallons of sap is to much for a 45 hp Kubota. that's why I asked around before I went and bought a tank and everything else. to everyone that responded thankyou for all the worldly knowledge. One more question. I will be making the trailer my self. I figure seeings how it will only be used pulling sap at no more than about 5 mph up the hill I don't need leaf springs, I can just bolt the frame to the axle. Does any one see a problem with this? The road is smooth with minimal bumps

SEND IT:lol:;):o

Farm wagons don't have springs. So this will be no problem at all. If you want to improve on your design and haul more there is away...

Your tractor has a bucket so you have hydraulics. on a non steering axle you can ad a hydraulic brake. a single cylinder that would break a shaped smooth section of steel to the tire tread area to produce friction that will slow the rotation of the tire. If you have a lever that has a float position this would be best as you can push the lever to increase friction and if the tire would lockup you could easily push to float to quickly release the hydraulic pressure and then back to center and add a little resistance again to slow again.

I was going to do this to a wagon that I hauled round bales with but stopped renting the farm and no longer had the steep mile long descent from 50 acres of hay fields.

Good Luck!

Ben

nope,i had a trailer with a 650gal tank on it,pulled it up hill,it had no leaf springs and worked good

Just remember a Toyota tundra haul the space shuttle endeavor. Lol. I see it on tv so it must be true

Just found this thread. For years we had a 3250 gallon vacuum load liquid manure spreader we hauled with a 135hp tractor. Tractor had cab, front weights, rear wheel weights and loaded tires. It was ok to haul with but you still had to pay attention on any uphill or downhill. It still wouldn't take much pushing down a hill to break traction. I also left more than one set of rubber marks on paved roads going uphill and rear wheels would start slipping. Have to say that the spreader had hydraulic brakes I ran from in the cab.

We had a 1500 gallon spreader also but there is no way I would be comfortable pulling that with our 45hp Kubota other than just moving it on dry flat ground.

gmcooper,
doesn't manure weigh in at around 10#/gallon? So that was about 16.5 ton in a 5 ton spreader so about 21-22 ton on a tractor that weight in at around 13,000#.
With brakes on the tanker, so it is safe in your experience that a ratio closer to 1:1would be better than 3:1 when talking hauled:hauler?

I just hate to see somebody else rap a tractor around a wagon. it happens in a split second and if you lucky, there are no injuries.

You didn't list the times there were brown marks on the tractor seat. LOL

Thanks for the perspective!

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Originally Posted by BreezyHill

gmcooper,
doesn't manure weigh in at around 10#/gallon? So that was about 16.5 ton in a 5 ton spreader so about 21-22 ton on a tractor that weight in at around 13,000#.
With brakes on the tanker, so it is safe in your experience that a ratio closer to 1:1would be better than 3:1 when talking hauled:hauler?

I just hate to see somebody else rap a tractor around a wagon. it happens in a split second and if you lucky, there are no injuries.

You didn't list the times there were brown marks on the tractor seat. LOL

Thanks for the perspective!

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The liquid manure we were hauling was definitely not in the 10lb/gallon range. It was very liquid with some sawdust mixed in. Load would have been 14-15 ton max(NRCS analysis put it at 13 ton) with if I remember our spreader was under 8000 lbs. What we ran worked and yes you have to pay attention with any load. We met the recommendations from the manufacturer when we purchased the spreader. Spreader had baffles and filled to limit each load. Hauling on ice and snow would certainly be a different set of circumstances. We never came close to a wreck but I have seen several loaded kicker wagons in our area jackknife going down a grassy slope pulled by too light of a tractor.

It's not the hp it's the weight of the tractor that's important. These newer sub-compact tractors have plenty of power to run bush hogs etc. but they don't weigh very much. In a pull-off an old 23hp John Deere B would be towing your Kubota L4600 backwards and laughing all the way. If you're buying that tractor for other reasons than I would just haul a smaller tank and feel safer about it. If it was for hauling that big a tank I would get a tractor that weighs at least 10000 lbs. I think there are too many variables for anyone here to make a perfect suggestion.

Personnaly I would not haul more than 350 with a tractor under 50 hp our 500 tank on a wagon frame is too much for our 50 hp JD compact style. Bu the K 6950 handles it great.

It is not the go that I have had issues with but the whoa. Then add in a partial load, snow, ice, and it would get wrapped around a tree. The tongue is bent on the water wagon and let that way so every time you hook it up, you are reminded to go slow....very slow.

Bent pole was from coming back to the pond with a quarter tank. Cows stop drinking and wanted to have a full tank for the night. Came down the hill and the load sloshed and tipped the tank upright onto the pole. I only saw it in the mirror. It was up and back down in under a second. Poped one tire when it landed back on the wheels. Definitely messed up that day.

I side with the smart guy that said use small tank make more trips...enjoy the day.

I use a JD 4600 4 wheel drive compact tractor hauling a rugged trailer with 275gal tote. on level ground it was more than sufficent to do the job. on the hill IT>>>WAS>>>NOT. Took a nasty ride on my neighbors property and the only thing that saved me from taking a 200ft free fall was the tractor had a bucket that when i put it down slowed me down enough to get the rig back under control. I remeber thinking , man if I get killed on his land he probably won't let me tap next year.:lol: It happend so quick...I stay on level ground now.

In high school we ran 2 85 hp tractors with 1025 gal tanks, a JD 5083E and a Ford 7710. the ford, being at least twenty years older, handles the load easily, but the deere was much too light for hauling hills. it worked pretty well, but it depends entirely on the load and the grade. there were a few times i had the deere and i hauled 800 gals in the tank, it all went to the back, and te tractor suddenly was losing traction on the upill ascent. this is a big factor off the road, because the hill was well gravelled but the loss of weight on the tires required some extra pull from the 4wd. another thing that helped immensely was the size of the trailer tires. if you have options, larger tires are much more maneuverable and haulable with bigger loads, especially in mud.