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I have some new 5 gallon pails that contained non-toxic anti freeze and was wondering if I can use them to gather sap, etc. They are propylene glycol cryo-tek-100 buckets with corrosion inhibitors from Hercules. Should they be washed out with anything special beyond hot water and soap?
Anybody done this before? Results?
thanks, Peter
I would wash them out with some gasoline, then dry them with a match.................wow
as long as you keep all FOOD PRODUCT made that was exposed to these buckets for you family I will say yes you can use them. PLEASE DON'T GIVE ANY OF IT AWAY TO NON FAMILY MEMBERS OR SELL ANY OF IT TO NON FAMILY MEMBERS.
All sarcasm aside .....NOOOOO!!!! Please go get yourself some nice new food grade buckets or something. but don't use those non-toxic or not. they weren't ment for food porducts in the first place and shouldn't be used now no mater what.
I agree don't use them get something that is ment for food.
Nathan
Would you fill them with Ice water and take to the kids sporting events and expect people are going to drink from them? Would you use it to store baby formula? If you ask those simple questions about anything in the sugarhouse that will be your answer.
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooo oo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One thing I did last year when I was short on buckets was to go to one of my towns schools after they were done eating lunch but before the cafeteria workers were done for the day. I asked them if they had any buckets for me. They had many just laying around that held icing, jelly, etc. They were happy to get rid of them. I left them my name and number and to contact me when theye had more. That worked very well and didn't cost me a dime.
there is this new food grade anti-freeze that they came out with, this might be what he means by non toxic, if that is the cast i assume they would be okay to use
Peter- This is excellent advice and worth remembering. Don't use the buckets. In addition, Propylene glycol is sometimes used as a laxative (ex. Miralax) You probably don't want to make syrup with that extra property :). It is also responsible for allergic reactions in some people. I'd steer clear of those pails.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad Blaisdell
Uh that is a negetative and I hope that this thread gets deleted! yikes!
Make sure you tell your customers that you are the only one using antifreeze buckets in your operation. OR JUST DON'T DO IT.Quote:
Originally Posted by spencer11
This should be a sticky on the top of this forum. Probably the best rhetorical question one should ask themselves for any sap/syrup storage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad Blaisdell
SDdave
food grade anti freeze? what chemicals do they use to make it not freeze? hmm sounds delicious, maybe we should try that on our pancakes..... NOT do not use the buckets. just because it says non-toxic doesn't mean I would start eating Crayola markers.
non toxic pretty much just means it is OK for your septic to keep a toilet from freezing ...........
If you are looking for something that isnt gonna cost you any money for sap collection on buckets, start saving gallon plastic milk jugs..get your nehghbors to save them for you too. before you know it you will have plenty of them. Or for alittle bit bigger capacity, you can goto local grocerie stores or Cosco I think you have in VT and goto the bakery department and ask them if they have any frosting/bakery buckets they would give you. These buckets come filled with frosting and when they are empty they usually just get tossed out.
I just re-read your post and it looks like you are looking for a gathering pail to dump your current buckets into (please tell me they are sap buckets or sap sacks).. Just goto any big box store or hardware store an look for polyethlene 5 gallon pails. will cost you under $5 for the pail and the lid.
Everybody happy???
Anybody else?
Peter
We are not trying to bash you or your ideas. We are just trying to make a very strong point. This is a subject that comes up way too often. The largest offense was some guy wanted to know if he could use a tank that had stored Round-up. Believe it or not some agreed that it could be cleaned. Sorry not for me or my children. Clean and New is the way to go.
Yeah, dont take offense but I hope that you heed our adviceQuote:
Originally Posted by Stamford sugarmaker
i think you got the message with all these responses but i'll give you my 2cents NNNNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!. use them to store tools and things . around here you can find them w/lids at the fudge shops ,candy makers, bakeries ect. for 2-2.50 each . food grade . good luck in your season
I'm sincerely sorry that you took offense Peter when almost to a person we answered no. Yours was not an unreasonable question. As mentioned before we've certainly seen worse. But to ask if we're having fun??? Are you kidding? We're too busy trying to protect one of the few small agrarian industries left in the US, one that has been enjoyed by families through many generations. Unfortunately, it is coming under more and more federal and state scrutiny in order to insure that the product is safe and that makes it harder to stay small.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stamford sugarmaker
That said, we're generally a friendly bunch but we like our product kept pure. Sap should always be handled like milk and the baby formula reference is a darn good one imho, no kidding around!
Peter, Welcome to the Maple Trader.:)
food grade anti freeze why yes there is next time you go to those anti gun Mcdonalds or any fast food joint look at the ketchup packets. Some of them have propylene glycol in them certified by the FDA go figure.
I actually thought you guys were pretty calm. A lot different than my first reaction reading the thread title
Are you for real? No wonder we all have to register with the FDA!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stamford sugarmaker
rg maple,
No I am not real, that's why I aspire to be as perfect as you.
Are there standards of knowledge that one must have before asking questions on this forum? How many folks out there will now hesitate to ask a question because they don't want to be dissed by the self-righteous after seeing this thread? Is that what you folks really want?
I wasn't sure about something so I asked a group that is more experienced with stuff like this. A few simple, "Nah, probably not a good idea!" responses would have sufficed.
I would like to thank the members that PM'ed me to say not to be concerned too much about the bashing that would take place. I'm not. I have learned a lot from the forum and expect to do so in the future. And I will continue to ask questions.
Peter
I understand where your coming from. I make steel pails for a living And was planing on using them my first year until I started to ask some friends about it. They are far from food grade! Good think I asked!!
Stamford, do a search on my call name and you will see some questions Mr. But hope you have all night cause it will take you a solid week of all nights just to get thru them..haha.
Peter, I can see how you felt belittled after reading all of these posts. Not that I would condone using anti-freeze buckets, but 25 years ago I would have did the same thing and there was no "mapletrader" to go and ask. We at one time many years ago used empty hydraulic oil pails to gather sap with and before I start getting bashed, how many of you's on here did the very same thing?
Now with that being said, sugarmakers in general have gotten much more quality minded through the years.
In all reality most of the processed big box food today is loaded with mega chemicals and additives, but yet that is all deemed "safe", makes no sense to me.
I can tell you for a fact there are pallet fulls of 50lbs. bags with skulls and crossbones that gets dumped into batches of pudding in town at a leading, nationally recognized pudding producer. Why is this crap going on? Now can any of you tell me how that would be any different than using washed out antifreeze buckets for gathering. I am just trying to prove a point is all, while still not approving of the practice.
[QUOTE=Stamford sugarmaker;198818]rg maple,
No I am not real, that's why I aspire to be as perfect as you.
Are there standards of knowledge that one must have before asking questions on this forum? How many folks out there will now hesitate to ask a question because they don't want to be dissed by the self-righteous after seeing this thread? Is that what you folks really want?
Agreed i probably 1 of the top 10 or so biggest producers on here and i still dont know everything
Like you ive been dissed on by some of the jerks on this site but theres alot of good people on here to
Such as therron and thad both helped me alot. Remember there's no such thing
As a stupid question. If i can help you in any way pm me or facebook im on that alot
Its shane hickey with the new holland tractor for my pro file picture. Good luck this spring
why can't we just answer him with a straight answer and not look down on him for asking questions? it's not like asked if you could use and oil tank for storage, anybody remember that? i have stated this before if you had any idea what goes into the foods we all eat you would have seconds on eating. i sure all that ripped on this guy are all experts in everything, if you have to rip on others go somewhere else!!
milk jugs is a good idea and if you need want a less expensive option try looking for the cage plastic tanks, usually 275 gallon for about 100-125 bucks. if you need collection for your taps look into sap bags inexpensive and safe. keep the questions coming. by the way sugar-based products have anti-freeze properties, we all eat sugar don't we??
I am just saying...why would you even think that this is ok?????
https://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927239
here is the material safety data sheet for propylene glycol
I think it's time for this thread to end. Where do we Americans get off saying what's good and what's bad for our health? We are the fattest most unhealthy people on the planet. Half the people that said don't use the buckets probably smoke cigarettes (and dope) and eat at fast food joints 4 times a week. Yea it would be better to use sap bags that are food grade or stainless buckets but not everyone can afford them. What Peter never said was he was planning to sell his syrup at the local flee market.
Spud
Thank you for all the re-assuring posts. No, I am not commercial. I just like to poison my own family and I! :) :) Right, Flat Lander Sugaring?
Delta pilot,
The thought occurred to me that it may be OK because for the past 10 years I have used non-toxic AF to winterize the fresh water system on my boat. It is the same stuff I mentioned in the OP- propylene glycol. In the spring I flush the tank a couple of times (with water and no soap) and we are good to go. We DRINK the water, brush our teeth, etc. and we ain't dead yet! It's used by boaters and RV people all over the world.
Twitch,
I couldn't open the link, what is the gist of what it said?
Again, thanks for your recent comments.
Peter
That it is really not that bad according to osha would have to ingest large amounts do any thing. and not to put it in your eyes i wouldn't want syrup in my eye either. If you search the web for " propylene Glycol MSDS " you will find it. probably no worse then soda. Over time it can be bad if ingested small amounts often I would drink bottled water on the boat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stamford sugarmaker
Not to insult anyone, as having this discussion periodically is good. However in most cases, "not that bad" doesn't mean the same as "good". I don't know whether to laugh a little or cringe a little when I hear this phrase. "Not that bad" is basically still a subset of bad. Sort of like the buddy syrup people made this year. When people first started making it after the hot spell it was "bad" -- no qualifiers were needed. As time went on, it got so people would descripe the taste as "not that bad." After tasting a good amount of it, I can tell you for certain that "not that bad" is a lot closer to "bad" than it is to "not so good" than "somewhat good". I don't know of a lot of people who would put it on their pancakes and still say it's "not that bad."Quote:
.....really not that bad......
The main reason to NOT use such things as this is public perception and the hypersensitivity to food safety. We are supposed to be making a PURE, WHOLESOME, NATURAL FOOD. That is how we market it. Is it OK to say that it is "close to" pure and really "not that bad?" Kind of hard to market syrup by saying, "pure maple syrup, with just a touch of propylene gylcol."
The second reason to NOT use such things is if the maple industry doesn't clean up its own act....the FDA or other governmental agency will be happy to come do it for us.
I really like the concept of "Would you use it to mix baby formula in?" Simple.
You know, The guy asked a question looking for an answer. That's all. If you want to reply, then just answer the question. Welcome the question and answer the man. At least he was smart enough to come to us and ask. How many out there don't ask? How many might not ask because they don't want the beating. Insults, verbal abuse and beating him with a stick aren't necessary unless that's how you teach your kids and train your dog.....
The answer is obvious to most but you don't teach the novice by beating them up.
The only dumb question is the one that you don't ask.
poor guy.....38 reply's with mine but I guess you get the point. at least I hope you do.
you know somehwere on here somebody said something on the line of no "mapletrader to go to, and they would have used non-food stuff then too" well back then it was really OK to use pretty much anything because we siomply didn't kow any better. but times have changed and we now know that there is is stuff that can be fatal or harmful if used improperly. it might not kill or hurt you but it could effect kids your kids kids what ever or hurt you down the road sometime in some form or another.
Lead used to be used for cooking in, paint, gasoline, all sorts of stuff, you will see in a few years alot of the stuff that we use on a daily basis will but no longer used either.... High fructose corn syrup and all the food additives come to mind. different plactic additives BPAs, paraformaldihide perfect example.... I think the search and cure for cancers need to start over and there will never be a cure for cancer so we need to go to the cause and see what's going on. they have done alot on that but I think more has to be done. Think about all the stuff that goes into making the interior cars we drive in every day there are even warning as to not sit with the windows closed in a hot car or you will be exposed to toxins.
Alright I am way off topic here but the point is the more we learn about what not to use stesses to point of don't take short cuts because you will only be hurting yourself and the industry in the long run. do it right the first time.
I think we can put this one to rest now what do think.
So if the stuff is ok to stop potable water pipes from frezzing how could it not be ok to collect sap in the empty pails???
Registar with the FDA??????? Really when did that happen? I must have missed that memo.