Newbie question re: divided pans

Hi Too Tall, I'm at about the same level of experience as you (I'm also too tall :))and I have plans to build a concrete block arch next month. I have drawn sketches for the arch and a 22"x39"x8" pan w/4 divider partitions @ 4.4" wide. I have 18 trees selected now and I have access to about 50+ more in the future. After reading many posts here I'm questioning my need for the 5 troughs in my pan design. Overkill?

I still do not fully understand the difference between sap pans and syrup pans.

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Originally Posted by wiam

FYI; Be very careful what you use for defoamer. Some people are very allergic to dairy and or other products. If you will be using for other than immediate family it is better not to use butter.

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If butter is not the choice to use, what kind of oil do you recommend?

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Originally Posted by Murphy's Law

I still do not fully understand the difference between sap pans and syrup pans.

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In a divided pan system

Sap pan = back pan = Flue pan = typically a pan with flues (raised or drop) in which sap (or concentrate) enters the system. Typically makes up approximately 2/3 of the length of the total pan system, but because of the flues (which greatly increase the surface area for heating), contains a majority of the volume of liquid in an evaporator system. Most of the evaporation occurs in this portion of the pan system.

Syrup pan = front pan = flat pan = flat-bottomed pan (or series of pans in a cross-flow system) where partially-concentrated sap from the flue pan enters, and which syrup is removed from. May consist of one larger flat pan divided into partitions (typical in reverse-flow pans), or several smaller interconnected pans (typical in cross-flow pans) that are sometimes divided into partitions.

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Originally Posted by Ausable

Now wiam - Your advice is good and as we both know - You can worry so much you never get around to boiling sap. Too Tall already said He is tapping 15 trees in 2013 and from experience I know he won't be competition for You yet. We can scare the Heck out of him later - right now he has to build up his confidence and make Maple. Heck - some Folks are allergic to Maple Syrup and gotta be careful not to put it on their pancakes - But----------Maple Syrup is Good ---LOL-- So lets encourage old Too Tall all we can. -------Mike-----

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NOT trying to scare anyone. Just stating facts to keep everyone safe. I do not care about competition. If some one gets sick from tainted maple we all look bad.

Wood loader, I use commercial defoamer available at any maple supplier. I believe organic producers use safflower oil but I have heard it does not work as well.

Hello Murphy's Law and Too Tall - first off - Listen to Dr. Tim - 99% of the time His advice is very good. I hold back 1% because he is a human.
Defoamers - I use a commercial defoamer most of the time - but you always keep it in a warm place - or when you really need it - the darn stuff is a solid in the bottle - when it is in a liquid state a few drops works. Keep a backup on hand - gosh butter, olive oil. cream, about anything oily (sorry wiam - Backyarders are animals) -----As a backyarder not worried about killing paying customers - when you get serious foaming going on - get it under control fast - or you will have a mess. ---Not really a big deal if you catch it. Ok - Ya know about batch boiling - I go with two inches of sap in my batch pan and boil away - it gets down about an inch - I bring it back up with hot sap from a preheater pan or pot. You keep this up till ya run out of sap or get bored with boiling and let it boil down till you start getting a little edgy about the level - If you are near syrup the bubbles get big and shiny - test with a syrup hydrometer - chances are your are getting in the near syrup stage. I would pour it off into a smaller pan - like a restaurant steam pan or stainless pot and finish it down to syrup in this - I use a turkey fryer burner for my heat source to finish. Enough about Batch Boiling - unless you have some questions. -----Mike----

OK - We decided that with all the trees we are now tapping - Batch Boiling is too slow and there has to be another way. There is - It is called the Continuous Flow Evaporator. Dr. Tim was explaining some of the different types and there are several and improved efficiency over the years is the reason for the various designs. But - so ya understand how they work - I'll explain my rig - about as simple as a continuous flow evaporator gets and it works. My Arch or heat source is from a 250 gal fuel oil tank - but - now we are talking continuous flow evaporators. to keep it simple - picture a large flat pan 2' x 5'. Now we are going to devide this pan into sections that are interconnected so you can have a flow - section to section. In the back - toward the stack - we have two Sap Sections (or pans) 12" x 24" each. toward the front (where we add fuel to the arch) we have 3 Syrup Sections 8" x 36' each. When you first fire up - all the sap is cold and at the same level cause all the sections are interconnected with small openings. (so you get a serpentine flow effect). On the first Sap pan I add sap from my feed tank (located outside) through a tube and a small valve to my first sap section and at my last syrup section I have a draw off valve. So now we begin - we start with cold sap on first boil throughout the pans or sections. about 2 or 3 inches of sap and we boil like with a batch pan - and boil some more and as we steam away the level starts to drop and here is where it gets different. We get a trickle of sap going through our little sap feed valve to maintain our overall level (a nicer setup would use a float valve for this) and keep boiling and boiling and adding sap. Now if you scoop a little liquid from your last syrup section you will see it is getting darker and sweeter - even though it is pretty much sap at you first sap section where you add sap. As you progress and have a boil in all the sections - you will notice the large shiny bubbles in your syrup sections - draw some off from the last syrup section into a test cup and see how close you are with a hydrometer. I know guys that draw off finished syrup from their drawoff valve - I'm not that good. Close to syrup but not quite there. So You keep adding sap at one end and drawing off near syrup at the other. Continuous Flow! I left a whole lot of stuff out and I'm not pretending this is all there is to it - But - I wanted You to understand the basics of a Continuous Flow Evaporator - Hope I helped some. -----Mike-----

Mike and Dr. Tim (and everyone else)

Thanks for the insight. It's all making a little more sense. I think this year I'll run my 2 steam table pans and a couple preheater pans on my oil arch. I've already got big plans to redo the oil tank next year based on some of the designs I've seen on the forum. At that point I'll probably go with a larger batch pan with a preheater.

Mike and Dr. Tim (and everyone else) - thank you for taking the time to educate us new guys. I really appreciate it. As you know, many experienced folks with very good intentions tend to throw in a word here and there or a concept that completely baffles the new people. Once that happens the new person is sorta lost the rest of the way through the explanation.