Distance between vacuum pump and releaser

I've got a sugarbush with 350+ taps, no electricity . We've tried running shurflo pumps etc off batteries, but they aren't big enough. Although when the sap wasn't running it was pulling 13"+.
I could try a bosworth, but diaphragms and tap numbers seem problematic.
I can run electric 600'+ from a relatives house.
I can use a generator.
Or I could put the vacuum pump at our barn and run pipe 1000'+ down to the releaser.

If I run a vacuum pipe 1000', how big does the pipe have to be?

I'm looking at a new gast 2565 1 1/2 hp and have secured a used Lapierre 4000 tap mechanical releaser.

Thoughts?

I have 950 taps 1600' out. 1 1/4" vacuum line. Most of the time I have about 22" at the releaser. Drops fast when I have leaks. Kind of wish I had gone 1 1/2.

According to the NY State Vacuum book, you could easily run 1,000' of 1" pipe and have great vacuum for 350 taps (assuming a vacuum pump that puts out 15 cfm). The vacuum book chart states that at 2% slope, you could have 513 taps as a maximum. I personally have a releaser 1,100' away from my vacuum pump with a 1" line. There is only 160 taps on that releaser and the vacuum runs 26.5".

Thanks for the info. Looking at a leader vac as well. My bush has 3-7% grade throughout. Not sure if I should pursue the used leader or buy the new gast.

I run a line about 850 feet to 1 of my 2 releasers. I only used 3/4 inch line and was told it was way to small by a dealer. Well I pull 26-27 all day long with no problem.

The vacuum level at the releaser is not the point. The goal is to have adequate air transfer through the system so the vac. level at the taphole is the same as it is at the releaser. Without enough CFMs to the releaser, the vac. level may still appear high there while it is considerably lower throughout the system.

The used leader flood shows 15 cfm.

The gast is 21 cfm.

I'm leaning toward a gast, all things being equal, it's more cfm.

We use a Delaval 76 Pump and are line is 1 1/2" that pulls a vacuum to our vacuum zero milk tank. It runs about 900' to our tank. Works great.

Are they both rating at the same vacuum level? The only CFM that counts is the CFM at whatever vacuum level you will have. While 1" may work, 1.25" will give you more vacuum to the end of the lines. Remember, for a vacuum transfer line black tubing is as good as any other and cheaper too.

For a vacuum line, you can use black plastic water pipe which you can get from a plumbing supply place cheaper than mainline.

GAST 2565

Power 1-1/2 hp ( 1.1 kW )

Max Flow (50 Hz) 16.5 cfm ( 28.0 m3/h )

Max Flow (60 Hz) 21.0 cfm ( 35.7 m3/h )

Max Pressure (50 Hz) 25 psi ( 1.7 bar )

Max Pressure (60 Hz) 25 psi ( 1.7 bar )

Max Vacuum (60 Hz) 28.0 in-Hg ( 65.0 mbar abs )

Weight 38 lbs ( 16 kg )

Min Temperature 33.8 °F ( 1 °C )

Max Temperature 104 °F ( 40 °C )

Trying to find the exact specs on the leader. Waiting on model #.

GAST 2565

Power 1-1/2 hp ( 1.1 kW )

Max Flow (50 Hz) 16.5 cfm ( 28.0 m3/h )

Max Flow (60 Hz) 21.0 cfm ( 35.7 m3/h )

Max Pressure (50 Hz) 25 psi ( 1.7 bar )

Max Pressure (60 Hz) 25 psi ( 1.7 bar )

Max Vacuum (60 Hz) 28.0 in-Hg ( 65.0 mbar abs )

Weight 38 lbs ( 16 kg )

Min Temperature 33.8 °F ( 1 °C )

Max Temperature 104 °F ( 40 °C )

Trying to find the exact specs on the leader. Waiting on model #.

We have a liquid ring pump which is oil cooled. I don't recall the size of the pump off the top of my head, but I believe it is 3 HP with about 33 CFM. We run 750' of 1 1/2" line to the releaser. Then we run nearly 2000' of mainline which is primarily 1" with some 3/4" lateral mains. We have two ladders (1 8' and 1 12') in the system. I don't recall all the max specs. Search the archives, that is where I found a lot of knowledge here. I believe the 1 1/2" has quite a capacity. Do it once and do it right. I felt the more storage of "air" I had the better the ladders would run and the easier it would handle any changes. I am at about 26" vac. I can tell when there is a loss from a couple loose saddles or about 5 taps. It doesn't drop when one tape is hanging free because you missed it during tapping. Walk your lines to make sure everything is tight.

Mike

I have a gast 1550 run off a gas motor behind my shed. My releaser and tank is at the bottom of my driveway probably 400' away. The releaser and pump are connected with a black 1" line. I have 24-25" at my releaser, and 22-23" at the end of my four 1" mains (which are 2000' away from my releaser). When my releaser dumps the other side is up to vac and taking sap 5 seconds later.

I would think you'd be fine with a 1" or a 1.25" dry line connecting the two.

Would you buy another gast? Local maple dealer questions their ability to maintain high vacuum w/o overheating. This is all new to me, but the gast has more cfm, is 220v and new vs used leader flood, 110v, less cfm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atgreene

Would you buy another gast? Local maple dealer questions their ability to maintain high vacuum w/o overheating. This is all new to me, but the gast has more cfm, is 220v and new vs used leader flood, 110v, less cfm.

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Don't think overheating will be a problem. They are used in the printing industry where they run 24/7 at high vacuum

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atgreene

Would you buy another gast? Local maple dealer questions their ability to maintain high vacuum w/o overheating. This is all new to me, but the gast has more cfm, is 220v and new vs used leader flood, 110v, less cfm.

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We ran our first Gast last year (1550) and bought another this year to replace a smaller ac vac pump unit we were using. Can't speak about long distances between the pump and releaser but can say we were very pleased with the pump. It Would get warm but did not overheat and pulled 26" consistently. Did a lot of research on the forum before buying last year and everyone using them seems to be very satisfied. Something else I like about them is they are simple. We keep a rebuild kit on hand and if one went down we could have it rebuilt and back in service within a few hours.

Still looking at options. Bought the mini flood and a Bernard double releaser, looks like I can get 400-500 taps tied into the system. We have 6 different culvert crossings with 5 different lines, but I think we can do it.

I'm going to start out on generator initially, get the vac up and working then deal with where to run it to or from once we're all tapped.

I have a Surge SP22 vacuum pump and a Lapierre horizontal mechanical releaser that is good for 8000 taps. I only have 750 taps on it but I got a good deal on the releaser. The releaser is 1500' away from the vacuum pump. I have a 1 1/4" pipe to supply vacuum to the releaser. I can easily maintain 26" to 27" of vacuum when the system is tight. The only issue is that the recovery time after the releaser dumps is a little slow. That could be fixed with a larger supply line or a bigger vacuum pump. I used 1 1/4" pipe because that is the size of the fitting at the pump.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Russell Lampron

I have a Surge SP22 vacuum pump and a Lapierre horizontal mechanical releaser that is good for 8000 taps. I only have 750 taps on it but I got a good deal on the releaser. The releaser is 1500' away from the vacuum pump. I have a 1 1/4" pipe to supply vacuum to the releaser. I can easily maintain 26" to 27" of vacuum when the system is tight. The only issue is that the recovery time after the releaser dumps is a little slow. That could be fixed with a larger supply line or a bigger vacuum pump. I used 1 1/4" pipe because that is the size of the fitting at the pump.

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I see the same issue with recovery. Have been wondering if some sort of vacuum resovoir at the releaser would help this.

Different animal, but when I had irrigation for a strawberry farm I had a 3" fire pump to feed 3.5 acres of overhead sprinklers. At first I had a 3" suction line to feed the 3" pump, max lift about 8', then it pushed water thru a main trunk of 4", then gradually it got smaller until the ends of the lines were 2" pipe. I had issues getting good enough pressure to the ends of the 2" lines and they were only feeding 6 sprinklers at 60' spacing. I called the irrigation company to see about getting a bigger pump. They said all I had to do was change the suction line to 4". I did that and the pressure and spray pattern was good throughout the entire system.
On vacuum you need to think similar, one size up often performs far better.
Steve Childs, Cornell Maple Expert, has a notebook that shows the performance of various sizes and lengths of tubing. If in doubt, consult that.
Personally I often use 1 size larger, if a pump has a 1.25" take off, I step it up to 1.5", if it has 1.5" I step it up to 2". But then you need to take distance into account, on long runs you may need even larger to get the best performance to the end.

Sounds like you need more cfm.....I'm running 2000 feet 1 1/2 and releaser stays parked on 27-28 plenty of reserve vac in line to recover the loss from dumping while chambers swap. Double releaser with 5hp busch pump

My releaser is 400' from the vac. pump. I used 1.5'' pipe between the two. I didn't like how long the recovery time was after each dump so I installed check valves on each line coming into the releaser. What a difference. Instead of taking 13 seconds from the time the releaser trips and finishes dumping plus vacuum recovery, I'm down to 6 seconds and no loss of vacuum that I can measure via the gauge. Only the releaser is losing vac and not the lines.