Smaller chainsaw

Hi gang. Yeah, another chainsaw thread. I looked through everything I could find here, and none of the older threads seemed to fit.

I've been running a Homelite (Home Depot brand) 16" 33cc chainsaw for 20 years or so. It still runs great, but it I'm thinking of upgrading. My problem is that it gets bogged down, it likes to cut to the right or left (and when it does it sometimes stops grabbing the wood at all), it doesn't have dogs on it to help keep it straight, and at 16" its bar it's a little small.

Now what I don't want is a big 24" chainsaw. I'm a little guy - strong but small, and only process maybe two cords of wood a year. So I don't need or want a huge saw. But I think I've gotten my money's worth out of this old Homelite, and would be willing to spend up to maybe 5 or $600 for something that could make my life easier when it's time to buck up the wood. I was thinking something with an 18" bar.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Gabe

It sounds like the chain is not sharpend correctly and is why it is pulling. there can be alot of reasons, the rakers may need attention or the pitch ect. Try changing the chain and see what happens. I like a 20 inch bar so i don't have to bend over so far.

^^ what Brian said.

The bar could also be a noodle and a better bar may help along with getting the chain right.

I love my collection of gas Stihl saws (MS170-14", MS291-20", 038 Mag-28"), but my most used saw now is a stupid little Greenworks 40v with a 16" bar. The stock bar was flimsy and .043 gauge. When I used up the stock chain, I put on a better .050 gauge Oregon bar and chain and that made it even better. I have 3 large batteries for it (since I have a bunch of the other tools) and for anything not huge, I grab that saw first. I can cut and not annoy the neighbors and it's really light.

I would suspect that for many people a good battery saw can now meet a lot of needs, but I wouldn't make it my only one....and anyone burning wood for syrup sure wouldn't either. Having something with a 20" bar is great and I think going to a 18" would then make you wish you had a 20" bar; I can pretty much do everything with my MS291; but variety is nice :) That said, a MS251 with an 18" bar or a MS271 with a 20" are a decent amount of saw for decent prices.

I dunno, I got a new chain and bar pretty recently, and I sharpen it after every couple days of use, sometimes more often, with the Timberline chain sharpener. So I don't think my chain angles would be too funky.

GO

I sharpen mine every tank of gas, I give each tooth 3 passes weather they need them or not. Don't forget to change out your file, they don't last for ever. The saw is only as good as the bar and chain, make sure they are from a respectful co.

I run. A stihl 261 c and love it. Light and far more powerful than a standard 261.

I have a one handed dewalt sawzall I carry when I walk the woods. It will do all the little stuff, but sometimes I have to go get a real saw. I have stihls, husqvarnas, and a Jonsered no preference but when they don't make that noise you know it is going to suck!! I can't imagine cutting wood with an axe and cross cut saw all day and then pulling it out with horses then rolling the logs onto trucks with peavey ect. That was when men were men, I guess I am still a boy!!

Have to agree that a light touch up with a file after each tank of gas is the answer. Properly sharpened, my Stihl MS 311 will pull you right on into whatever you're cutting.
If it's not throwing chips, or pulling to one side or the other, the chain needs some attention.

Nothing much nicer than a good sharp chain, makes cutting a pleasure - it's the picking up and throwing into the bed of the Gator that's still a pain in the back!

Does it have a real chain on it or a Homeowner’s special with anti kickback chain? If it has the anti kickback chain then that’s your problem. They are worthless for cutting.

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Originally Posted by BAP

Does it have a real chain on it or a Homeowner’s special with anti kickback chain? If it has the anti kickback chain then that’s your problem. They are worthless for cutting.

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Here's the chain and bar: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oregon-1...6-23/326904971. They're both just two-and-a-half years old. That said, I think I just figured out I was running my chainsaw with the chain consistently too loose, and I may have blown out the track in the bar the chain runs in. It feels like there's more wiggle there than there should be. So maybe I'll pick up a new bar. May as well get a new chain while I'm at it, so as to have a spare.

GO

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Originally Posted by Brian

I sharpen mine every tank of gas, I give each tooth 3 passes weather they need them or not. Don't forget to change out your file, they don't last for ever. The saw is only as good as the bar and chain, make sure they are from a respectful co.

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Wow, I didn't know I need to sharpen it so often. I think I typically sharpen it after maybe three to six tanks of gas (but it's a small gas tank). I posted my bar and chain in the previous post ^^^. Do you think it's okay?

GO

My experience with gas saws over the last 60 yrs started with first a Homelite then a Poulon Wild thing grade saws with an 18" bar. Unfortunately since I was cutting between 4 and 9 full cords a year they only held up about 18 mos. I got fed up with them and bought a Husquavarna 59 with a 20" bar, a homeowner version but a much higher grade saw. That was in about 2004, I still use it on occassion, it's still good but as I got older I started thinking lighter weight saws. I then bought a Huaky 543XP, far better and lighter but a pro grade saw, only a 16" bar. The saw is faster for sure and until I reached 76 yrs old I used it almost exclusively except on larger trees where I chose the Husky 59.
2 yrs ago I tried a cordless electric saw. At first I got a DeWalt 14" 20V saw, ok, but slow. I still use that only for light limbing. Then I got a DeWalt 60V saw, I think it has an 18" bar. I sometimes use it to drop trees and most times I use it to buck into blocks for splitting, mostly because it' far quieter. Because I now use an RO, my wood is down to 1.5-2 cords a year. I have 2 batteries for that saw and they last longer than I do (I'm now 78).
While it wouldn't be a production saw, I like it for what I do. At one time I also had a Husky 65 with a 34" bar, but as I got older I could no longer pull it to start so I sold it.
Sharp chains make all the difference. Back until about 2008 or 9, I was doing 1320 taps , before I got an RO in 2011 I hired a man who cut and split most of my wood, but he was horrible at sharpening the chains with a file. Prior to that I had always sharpened by hand, but I got several extra chains and had him swap chains as they got dull. Then I had 5-12 chains to sharpen at a time, and arthritis in my thumbs told me to get a chain sharpener. I bought a MAXX sharpener and never looked back, it does a fantastic job. I only need to adjust the amount of grind to remove the least possible on each chain as I start another one, then I sharpened all on one side and then all on the other side. I no longer have that helper, he went on to college (at about age 36) and then graduated, now he's a forester or something along those lines. Besides a sharp chain, flip the bar at each chain change and as the groove widens or flairs use a tool to fix it. It has 2 rollers and is adjustable so I just pull it the length of the bar, then tighten slightly and repeat until it fits the chain snug without being tight. That only seems to be needed every 4-6 full cords. With a proper fit on the chain groove and sharp teeth, the saw will cut straight. Also, use good bar oil, not used motor oil. It must be Bar oil, but I haven't found a difference in name brand and TSC or similar as long as it's bar oil. Another pointer, on gas powered saws use ethenal free gas, never the 10 or 15% or worse blend.

For limbing and general brush cutting I use my makita 36 v cordless. It has a 14” bar. If you’re used to chainsaws it will cut through most fallen trees with a sharp chain. Fairly light and useful for on/off work. I carry a Bigger gas saw just in case I need it, but in the sugar bush I rarely do.

My father gave up on the 064 stihl last year because he can't start it any more. If I start it and it warms up he can start it. He just turned 83 and still burns wood drives and lives alone and still cuts some wood. He switched to a dolmar saw that starts easy. I don't know the size but cuts good. I would guess 50-60 cc's anyway. a couple weeks ago he was blocking 32-36 inch maple that I pulled out that had blown over. I hope I can do that when I get his age, or if I make it that long.

Great info Flats. Thanks for your experiences.

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Originally Posted by berkshires

Here's the chain and bar: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oregon-1...6-23/326904971. They're both just two-and-a-half years old. That said, I think I just figured out I was running my chainsaw with the chain consistently too loose, and I may have blown out the track in the bar the chain runs in. It feels like there's more wiggle there than there should be. So maybe I'll pick up a new bar. May as well get a new chain while I'm at it, so as to have a spare.

GO

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Near as I can tell, that’s a homeowner type chain. It has extra rackers built in to keep them from kicking back, which in turn makes them cut like crap. Go to a local saw dealer and see about getting a professional grade chain replacement and you will see night and day difference. You just have to be more careful because it will grab more and can kickback more. But cutting will be wayyyy morrrre.

That's low profile chain at 0.43 thick drivers. Look at the bar, does it show 0.43 for the drivers or 0.50? That might be the issue.
The frequency of sharpening is extremely variable. If the log is clean and the chain never comes in contact with the dirt, you may only need to sharpen it every 2-4 days. If there is any dirt on or in the bark (trees that grew along a dirt road often have dirt imbeded in the bark) it needs more frequrnt sharpening. Learn to recognize when a chain needs sharpening rather than going by the length of time since the last sharpening. As the chain wears the saw dust gets finer, a sharp chain throws big course chips. As soon as you detect finer chips, stop and sharpen in. If it contacts the dirt, sharpen right away, if the bark has dirt in it, you might only make 3-4 cuts and it will need sharpening.
Then, look at the info stamped into the bar, near the engine, make sure the chain matches. Also, get a different chain, one without the LP (low profile) which is a poor choice for any production sawing. If you take a picture of the etched info on the bar and send it to: dave@cnymaple.com I'll help you pick a better chain choice.

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Originally Posted by BAP

Near as I can tell, that’s a homeowner type chain. It has extra rackers built in to keep them from kicking back, which in turn makes them cut like crap. Go to a local saw dealer and see about getting a professional grade chain replacement and you will see night and day difference. You just have to be more careful because it will grab more and can kickback more. But cutting will be wayyyy morrrre.

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Yes it is a homeowner type chain. I bought a new one and it even says on the package "low kickback chain". I'll investigate into new chains to see if I can find one that fits my bar and saw, and is not "low kickback".

One other thing I discovered is that while they call it a 3/8" LP chain, which should take a 5/32" bit for sharpening, I tried two different 5/32" files, and neither one would fit in the gullet of the new chain at any angle, while making full contact with the chain. So whatever they use in the factory does not have a 5/32" diameter. This explains why, when I sharpened it, I made a mess of it, because I was trying to follow the existing profile, and that's impossible. I either have to take off a lot of metal at the base of the cutter, or the top. If I take off a lot at the bottom I start to run into the thing, I think it's called a tie-strap, that sits below the cutter. And if I take a lot off the top, I wind up with a very low angle top edge of the gullet (think a wave that is not ready to break) that does not cut well.

So I think I'll probably be much happier with a different chain. I'll try one and see what I think and then decide if I still need a bigger chainsaw.

If I do, looks like the Echo CS-4910 is the best saw I could get for my use. Though no-one seems to sell it - they've all moved on from the carburetor saws to the electronic ones, which I don't want. Ugh.

GO

I like my little 16" bar Stihl saw that I bought from Ace Hardware, it was on sale. It is an MS-180.

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Originally Posted by berkshires

Hi gang. Yeah, another chainsaw thread. I looked through everything I could find here, and none of the older threads seemed to fit.

I've been running a Homelite (Home Depot brand) 16" 33cc chainsaw for 20 years or so. It still runs great, but it I'm thinking of upgrading. My problem is that it gets bogged down, it likes to cut to the right or left (and when it does it sometimes stops grabbing the wood at all), it doesn't have dogs on it to help keep it straight, and at 16" its bar it's a little small.

Now what I don't want is a big 24" chainsaw. I'm a little guy - strong but small, and only process maybe two cords of wood a year. So I don't need or want a huge saw. But I think I've gotten my money's worth out of this old Homelite, and would be willing to spend up to maybe 5 or $600 for something that could make my life easier when it's time to buck up the wood. I was thinking something with an 18" bar.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Gabe

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Late to the party here but love all things chainsaw and firewood related...first off, a saw not cutting straight is going to purely be operator error or, more likely, that your chain teeth are not filed properly. Specifically, most people tend to file harder on one side than the other and/or they don't maintain the same angle across all the teeth. A good investment for a novice woodcutter is one of those two-in-one sharpeners like Stihl makes...just make sure you get the right gauge sharpener for your chain.

That said, you're probably right, it's worth the investment for something with a higher weight to performance ratio. For a little bit more than $600, you could buy the Stihl MS 261C which is a "buy it for life" type of chainsaw. You are paying a bit more than the same size homeowner model but you are getting a lot for that money, including: magnesium case, easy-tune carb, retaining nuts on the bar cover, etc.

I have a Stihl 271 and, while it's a great little firewood saw, every time I have to fiddle with the carburetor setting or I lose a bar nut I curse myself for not spending the extra $100.

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Originally Posted by berkshires

Yes it is a homeowner type chain. I bought a new one and it even says on the package "low kickback chain". I'll investigate into new chains to see if I can find one that fits my bar and saw, and is not "low kickback".

One other thing I discovered is that while they call it a 3/8" LP chain, which should take a 5/32" bit for sharpening, I tried two different 5/32" files, and neither one would fit in the gullet of the new chain at any angle, while making full contact with the chain. So whatever they use in the factory does not have a 5/32" diameter. This explains why, when I sharpened it, I made a mess of it, because I was trying to follow the existing profile, and that's impossible. I either have to take off a lot of metal at the base of the cutter, or the top. If I take off a lot at the bottom I start to run into the thing, I think it's called a tie-strap, that sits below the cutter. And if I take a lot off the top, I wind up with a very low angle top edge of the gullet (think a wave that is not ready to break) that does not cut well.

So I think I'll probably be much happier with a different chain. I'll try one and see what I think and then decide if I still need a bigger chainsaw.

If I do, looks like the Echo CS-4910 is the best saw I could get for my use. Though no-one seems to sell it - they've all moved on from the carburetor saws to the electronic ones, which I don't want. Ugh.

GO

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Like I said in my first reply, I would look for a Stihl and my recommendation would be the MS-261 but if that's too over budget (we all have a budget) then my next level down would be their Wood Boss version of the same saw, a 251-C.

Don't buy a saw from the box store, buy it from a dealer. If you don't do a lot of cutting, I'd skip the hassle of the straight and round files and just get a 2-in-1 sharpener. It helps you set the right angle AND it cuts down your rakers/height gauge at the same time.

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Originally Posted by ADK_XJ

Late to the party here but love all things chainsaw and firewood related...first off, a saw not cutting straight is going to purely be operator error or, more likely, that your chain teeth are not filed properly. Specifically, most people tend to file harder on one side than the other and/or they don't maintain the same angle across all the teeth. A good investment for a novice woodcutter is one of those two-in-one sharpeners like Stihl makes...just make sure you get the right gauge sharpener for your chain.

That said, you're probably right, it's worth the investment for something with a higher weight to performance ratio. For a little bit more than $600, you could buy the Stihl MS 261C which is a "buy it for life" type of chainsaw. You are paying a bit more than the same size homeowner model but you are getting a lot for that money, including: magnesium case, easy-tune carb, retaining nuts on the bar cover, etc.

I have a Stihl 271 and, while it's a great little firewood saw, every time I have to fiddle with the carburetor setting or I lose a bar nut I curse myself for not spending the extra $100.

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So I think I had a lot of issues going on at once. First, the bar groove was blown out, so the chain was wobbling a bit side-to-side. I suspect this is, in part, because the chain was consistently under-tensioned. Second, the sharpening I'd done on the chain was absolutely terrible. I'll take my share of the blame, but I'll also mention that that chain comes very weird from the factory. You really have to start over, and start much deeper, in order to get a proper gullet on that chain, and I didn't know that. Third, the "low-kickback" chain is very not-grabby.

So I got a new bar, and a new chain that doesn't have the part that's like an extra depth gauge on it. I can see immediately that my file actually fits in the gullet properly, so sharpening it should go much better.

I also got the Echo CS 4910. I haven't had the opportunity to use either yet. I'll probably do some bucking in a month when I drive out to my sugarbush, if there's time after I put in my taps. I think the Echo weighs less than my old Homelite, and I'm confident it will make bucking a breeze in comparison.

GO

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Originally Posted by ADK_XJ

my next level down would be their Wood Boss version of the same saw, a 251-C.

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I hate my Wood Boss 251. I bought one about 6 years ago or so to replace a worn out 20 year old Husqvarna 350 that I loved. Finally ran it into the ground after 2 decades of above average home-owner use and bought the 251. I find it boggy and underpowered. Hate it so much I brought my old 350 to a guy to have it rebuilt and just got it back. Doubt I'll get another 20 years out of it. But as long as it runs strong I doubt I'll pick up the Stihl again unless it's an emergency.

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Originally Posted by bigschuss

I hate my Wood Boss 251. I bought one about 6 years ago or so to replace a worn out 20 year old Husqvarna 350 that I loved. Finally ran it into the ground after 2 decades of above average home-owner use and bought the 251. I find it boggy and underpowered. Hate it so much I brought my old 350 to a guy to have it rebuilt and just got it back. Doubt I'll get another 20 years out of it. But as long as it runs strong I doubt I'll pick up the Stihl again unless it's an emergency.

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My parents still burn wood for heating the house and shop since 1980 (and hot water) and my dad will grab his new 251 more than his 361 now since it does the job really well and doesn't weigh a lot. (he's 66, but not slowing down much). That saw should cut better than you hint at. Sucks it hasn't worked for you. Not fun to be frustrated with equipment like that.

If you want to throw it out, I'll pay you to ship it to me :)

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Originally Posted by littleTapper

My parents still burn wood for heating the house and shop since 1980 (and hot water) and my dad will grab his new 251 more than his 361 now since it does the job really well and doesn't weigh a lot. (he's 66, but not slowing down much). That saw should cut better than you hint at. Sucks it hasn't worked for you. Not fun to be frustrated with equipment like that.

If you want to throw it out, I'll pay you to ship it to me :)

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LOL!

To be fair, I think the Wood Boss 251 is probably an adequate home-owners saw. I do a ton of logging, trail maintenance, food plots, and firewood and it's just really underpowered and inadequate for me. It was probably a poor purchase on my part. But I can see how it would be an adequate home-owners saw with a nice sharp chain and a finely tuned carb. It's certainly my "go to" saw for delimbing since it's nice and light.

I still run an older, made in West Germany Stihl 044 that is just a beast. That Husky 350 that I had rebuilt was just an awesome saw as far as its power to weight ratio. The guys at my Stihl dealership sold me on the 251 as a commensurate replacement to that old 350...it was not.

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Originally Posted by bigschuss

LOL!

To be fair, I think the Wood Boss 251 is probably an adequate home-owners saw. I do a ton of logging, trail maintenance, food plots, and firewood and it's just really underpowered and inadequate for me. It was probably a poor purchase on my part. But I can see how it would be an adequate home-owners saw with a nice sharp chain and a finely tuned carb. It's certainly my "go to" saw for delimbing since it's nice and light.

I still run an older, made in West Germany Stihl 044 that is just a beast. That Husky 350 that I had rebuilt was just an awesome saw as far as its power to weight ratio. The guys at my Stihl dealership sold me on the 251 as a commensurate replacement to that old 350...it was not.

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Nice! I grew up using an 041 AV Super. I wonder if that's still laying around somewhere at the farm...I think it was pretty wore out, but could be rebuilt by a collector.

Could try a muffler mod on that 251. Sure wouldn't hurt. It made a hell of an improvement on my 291. You may have to remove the limiter on the high speed adjustment to get enough fuel after that, but it's easy.

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Originally Posted by littleTapper

Nice! I grew up using an 041 AV Super. I wonder if that's still laying around somewhere at the farm...I think it was pretty wore out, but could be rebuilt by a collector.

Could try a muffler mod on that 251. Sure wouldn't hurt. It made a hell of an improvement on my 291. You may have to remove the limiter on the high speed adjustment to get enough fuel after that, but it's easy.

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Nice! They were known to be a little sluggish or slow weren't they? Love those older Stihls. My 044 is heavy...but I take my time and it's not like I am logging all day anymore.


Thanks little tapper. I hadn't thought of a muffler mod. I'll look into it.

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Originally Posted by bigschuss

Nice! They were known to be a little sluggish or slow weren't they? Love those older Stihls. My 044 is heavy...but I take my time and it's not like I am logging all day anymore.


Thanks little tapper. I hadn't thought of a muffler mod. I'll look into it.

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The 291? A bit...but I have only run mine with a 20" bar and it has always cut pretty well. Post-mod, it's like a whole new saw though. Hindsight being 20/20, I probably should have just plunked down the extra for the 261. 1/4 hp more and a pound lighter and built better. But, I should get a really good life out of the 291.

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Originally Posted by littleTapper

The 291? A bit...but I have only run mine with a 20" bar and it has always cut pretty well. Post-mod, it's like a whole new saw though. Hindsight being 20/20, I probably should have just plunked down the extra for the 261. 1/4 hp more and a pound lighter and built better. But, I should get a really good life out of the 291.

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Ah, my bad. I was talking about the 041 AV Super. Thought I always heard they were a little slow....low RPM's.

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Originally Posted by bigschuss

Ah, my bad. I was talking about the 041 AV Super. Thought I always heard they were a little slow....low RPM's.

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Oh, they're not speedy! Good torque though; shorten the rakers and let it go!

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Originally Posted by bigschuss

LOL!

I still run an older, made in West Germany Stihl 044 that is just a beast.

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Ok, now you've done it...I also have an 044 (Magnum) and it is absolutely a power-house. I ported the muffler case and it runs a 25" bar like butter through white oak. It's my main felling saw since it can easily bore cut any log on our property and it doubles to make hemlock slabs with my Alaskan mill when I need decking or bridge boards or whatever. Those West Germans, man, they knew how to make things to last.

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Originally Posted by littleTapper

Nice! I grew up using an 041 AV Super. I wonder if that's still laying around somewhere at the farm...I think it was pretty wore out, but could be rebuilt by a collector.

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Now this is just getting spooky...my first saw (and I still have it) is an 041 Farm Boss, also West German made. I had the "points" ignition ripped out and upgraded for a "modern" electronic one by an incredible saw shop that used to be right up the street from me. The guy just happened to have a full rebuild kit for the 041 sitting on his shelf...lucky me.

Between the all metal chassis and that jug of a gas tank, it's not what you'd call a limbing saw, but I tend to keep it on the tractor or in the bed of the SxS when I'm in the woods because it can get banged around all day and start right up on a single pull.

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Originally Posted by ADK_XJ

Now this is just getting spooky...my first saw (and I still have it) is an 041 Farm Boss, also West German made. I had the "points" ignition ripped out and upgraded for a "modern" electronic one by an incredible saw shop that used to be right up the street from me. The guy just happened to have a full rebuild kit for the 041 sitting on his shelf...lucky me.

Between the all metal chassis and that jug of a gas tank, it's not what you'd call a limbing saw, but I tend to keep it on the tractor or in the bed of the SxS when I'm in the woods because it can get banged around all day and start right up on a single pull.

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I suspect replacing the points for electronic ignition was done on almost all of them :)

We had several 031, 032 and a 041 saws when I was younger. Great saws and the 041 was a beast cutting big trees. We used to pull the bars and the covers with handle guard off and put direct drive tappers on the clutch in the 70’s and 80’s. They were a little dangerous but man were they fast drilling with a sharp bit.

The first saw I grab for any thinning/maintenance/limbing is my Stihl MS241. You can carry it all day and never get tired, and it cuts way out of its league for its size. Next up is a Stihl MS261 for anything up to 16”, then a Makita 7900 for anything large. Those 3 saws will take care of anything in the Northeast.

I mistakenly let my 026 go after I bought a MS460. The 460 is a beast, particularly with a longer 32" bar. I used it extensively for chainsaw milling lumber, but it's not so great for small around the home work. So I ended up getting an Ego 18" cordless. It's now my goto saw, even for some bigger work. The secret for running cordless is ALWAYS use a sharp chain, and keep the batteries at room temperature. The 460 still gets pliantly of run time though, and is hard to beat for milling lumber (other than a bandsaw mill).

Well just to close the loop on this conversation, I had the opportunity to use my new Echo CS 4910. After tapping my trees at my sugarbush, I had a few hours to kill before I had to drive back to town, so I figured I'd get a start on bucking up wood to start seasoning for the future. Wow. It was night and day compared to using my old Homelite. I could not believe how fast and clean it was cutting through everything. Got all I could fit bucked and stored with extra time to spare. So glad I made that choice.

Gabe