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Hello,
I was looking to be able to buy a very nice vacuum system with releaser. The guy I bought from told me we used it in an unheated shed. I believe I’ve read somewhere that mechanical releases can be problematic in an unheated space. I’m planning a small vacuum shed, but heating it is not a good option. What advice is there regarding the mechanical releaser?
I’ve attached a picture of my setup Attachment 21611
I always think of a mechanical released used outside. Sure, there's problems when it freezes. But if everything is plumbed right, then problems are minimized. Outside the sap stays cold, hopefully unless the day gets warm. If you heat the releaser space then you want it just above freezing.
Is that your collection tank in the pic? It looks like a head tank.
TapTapTap,
Thanks, I was thinking the same thing, the sap is cold, and it will keep the pump room cold anyway. That was supposed to be a tank for RO, but I have it mocked-up with my vacuum system. It's 200gal and I'm only planning around 100 taps on the vacuum side this year. I can get another 100 taps on vacuum, but it would be more work than then I can apply this year. I know it's overkill for the vacuum system, but I could not afford to pass it up. So, I thought my 200gal tank might suffice for a collection tank this year. Does that seem reasonable?
Thanks,
Pete
If you build a small pump house, the heat generated by the vacuum pump should keep temps above freezing.
My releasers have always been outside. Yes, on rare occasions they froze, but only once was it a big problem. If you do as johnallin suggests you will likely have no issues. If the pump is remote from the releaser, just build a small housing around it and keep the releaser clean. That will help. If the pump is with the releaser, put them both in, but is gas, run the exhaust outside.
I used to have 4 out of 5 of my mechanical releasers outside, uncovered for 2 seasons. That was a messy disaster. I then installed tarps over the 4 outside for a number of years. That worked OK, except for the freeze ups. Ten years ago I built my first shed over one releaser and tank. Worked OK but releaser still froze up. I built 2 more sheds and heated all 3 of them with electricity. End of frozen releasers and frozen sap submarines in tanks. I only had one releaser left (1,100' from electricity) under a trap cover with the same freezing problems. Last season, I built a shed (6' x 12')over the releaser and tank and heated that one with a small propane heater with a gas pilot and a battery operated thermostat set to 34*. I supplied the propane with a 30 pound tank. I probably used 25% of the tank all season. The results, excellent.
Here is what my sap production records show
2017 .... 5 releaser locations average annual sap production .... 22.04 gpt ....production rank from last no shed releaser.... #5 17.71 gpt sap 20% less
2018 .... 5 releaser locations average annual sap production .... 23.62 gpt ....production rank from last no shed releasr.... #5 18.68 gpt sap 21% less
2019 .... 5 releaser locations average annual sap production .... 19.62 gpt ....production rank from last no shed releaser.... #5 16.32 gpt sap 17% less
2020.... 5 releaser locations average annual sap production .... 26.06 gpt ....production rank for releaser in heated shed.... #1 28.49 gpt sap 9% more
.................................................. ................4 year average 22.83 gpt
Extra sap from 155 trees ....155 x 4 year av 22.83 gpt = 3538 gal.......... new heated shed production..... 155 trees x 28.49 gpt = 4415 gal extra sap= 877 gal
I used a Pro Con 10,000 Btu ventless propane heater ordered from Home Depot ($149.00). Very dependable (so far). No freeze ups and no sap subs. I would not be without my heated sheds now.
Joe
Hmmm......maybe a small shed with a light bulb? It works in my barn head, but it has good insulation
Agree with Joe. Makes life so much easier. Before I heated my releaser enclosure I would have to go out to my releaser every morning when I started my pump 1600’ to make sure it was not froze. Or go out at night after it froze to make sure it dumped the last time. (Not fun thawing out an 8 gallon block of ice). I use just the pilot from a propane water heater. No thermostat. Uses about 1.5-20 pound tanks for the season.
I agree, particularly if I had 5 releasers like Joe! I can manage one and I even have a remote security camera to keep and eye on it. But 5 times the trouble would be over the top regardless of cameras.
Of course the downside would be the effort and cost to build a structure that might rival, or exceed, the size of a small sugarshack. I elected to use an 8x16 portable garage for my collection tank and releaser which doesn't lend itself to efficient heating - so I leave it unheated. Even with the hassles, I don't see constructing a "permanent" enclosure due to the cost and the zoning laws.
An option I have considered is a shipping container (which is a temporary structure not subject to the zoning laws). I already have one for my vacuum pump and permeate tank back at the sugarhouse. However, I can tell you from my own experience that a steel shipping container is very hard to keep heated so I wouldn't attempt to without insulation (which is costly itself).
pete3046,
I heated my largest sap shed with a mechanical releaser, 10' x 16', (750 gal tank) with a 3,000 watt electric milk house heater and a 3' x 3' electric releaser pump shed heated with a heat lamp on a thermostat for
$31.00 in electricity from Feb. 24 to April 2. (I have to pay the service charge no matter what).
Joe
We've seen several instances where producers will build a small insulated box out of foamboard that is just large enough for the releaser and a candle. Light the candle only as needed. Seems to help.
If you can heat a small enclosure for your mechanical releaser it will avoid a lot of problems. Our oldest releaser is 10 years old and last year it gave us nothing but problems. There are multiple places it can freeze up as the temps get close to freezing - especially if you have any small leaks in the releaser itself. If you can clear the ice and slush out of it after freezeup once the pump is off you should get an OK startup the following day. Sometimes it takes a while once the sap starts to run to get it operating perfectly - which is why we've gone to an electric releaser in a heated enclosure where possible. If you get better vacuum to the woods for an extra 15 minutes at the start and end of each day it adds up to a lot of sap over the season! Plus, I'd rather walk lines or sleep a while longer than mess with a frozen up releaser!
A couple questions that I have come up with since reading this thread, if pumps are problematic due to overheating so we have oil reclaimers, wouldn't this be ample heat to keep everything thaw if it is in a small structure that the releaser is located inside of. Also, would the pump house need to be sized to house the entire sap tank or only large enough for the pump, trap, reclaimer, releaser and a portion of the tank large enough to dump into so that the building could be smaller and easier to keep warm.
In my operation, I have the vacuum pump located at my sugar house and have vacuum lines to each of the sap sheds. So using the vacuum pump waste heat was not an option. 2 of the sap sheds are completely enclosed and heated at what I would say a very reasonable cost. One 12'x6' shed cost a quarter of a 30 pound propane tank and the other shed,10' x 16' cost $31.00 in electricity. Having the whole shed heated eliminates both the releaser freezing problems and the ice in the tanks. The third shed is not completely heated, only a small 3'x3' electric releaser room. The electric releaser pumps the sap into the old 400 gal bulk tank in the cold part of the shed through a 1" pipe. This tank occasionally will have a little ice on top, but does not freeze almost solid like it occasionally did before I built the shed over it.
I have a small portable sawmill so I really do not have much cost in these sheds frames. The only real outside expense for me was the metal roofing. When I insulated the 10' x 16' shed I spent $5.00 on a insulated steel door and frame at the local recycling store, $382.00 on 11 sheets of 4 x 8 2" R-10 sidewall foam and $200.00 on 5- 4 x 8 sheets of 2" foil faced r-13 foam board and $26.00 for the milk house heater. The value gained from the $608.00 spent on the foam board and heater is a relatively small expense compared to what I have spent in other parts of the sugaring operation over the past 18 years
Joe
I'm trying to figure out how to do this while still leaving an opening at the bottom so the sap can get out from the flapper.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins
When I did this I just had hole in the bottom of the box for the sap to spill through. But, you can also get a fitting that replaces the external flapper and turns it into a length of pipe that can be directed where you want it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgagne99
They will freeze at night, 26+ not an issue 26 and below and yes good to go dump them at night so they don't freeze with too much ice.
I find if the releaser is freezing up there is little to no sap anyways, so your not losing much production. When it warms and sap starts to run this usually thaws out the releaser to a working order also.
Best to check in the morning;
1. Flappers are free and clear of ice so they can seal.
2. Make sure both floats are not bound in anyway by lifting.
3 good to check the flappers inside also. I usually do this visually and if I see an issue I will open cover and d
e-ice
4. If vaccum is on swap the chambers manually to be sure pistons are actuating and working correctly and this will also verify flappers are shutting properly
If the vacuum is off because it was super cold I will usually go around with hot water and splash into the horizontal chamber this will melt off the flappers and free the elbows.
I usually do all this during am coffee as im waiting for sap to start running. Usually a slow couple of hours anyway.... but heated building is much nicer- no issues
Pete3046,
Looks like your shed will have access to power, we have run heat tracing that we wrap around the bottom of to releaser near the flaps to prevent icing issues mostly on start-up, but also around the inlet manifold and elbows with good results. Also helps on days where you get build up of slush that blocks flow.
I used to use a mechanical releaser, unheated on the top of the tank. The transition from freezing to sap running always made me nervous because that's when it would fail and hang up. Every morning, I would go to the releaser, frozen or not, and make sure it'd cycle OK. 95% of the time, this worked fine.
If you can, put it in a little enclosure and heat it to prevent freeze-up issues.
Or, even better, go with an electric releaser like I did and put it in a heated pump shed. Much more reliable.
my neighbor has a little contraption he keeps over his machanical releaser and doesn't seem to have any issues. it's a basic little thing framed up with strapping and wrapped in plastic with a regular light bulb in it. just enough to keep things from freezing and not over heat anything.
The biggest problem I have with a mechanical releaser is the sap that freezes in the manifold and in the lines entering. one of the elbows is always full of sap which freezes and when things start to run again the next day it is only able to dump the one side, and it looses vacuum until it thaws. sometimes I have to break out the heat gun
I like to be able to see the releaser remotely with my webcam, so an enclosure is not ideal. I'm thinking of trying one of those seed germination mats with a piece of foam-board underneath it and maybe some insulation wrapped around the bottom of the canister. Those heat mats are only about 20 watts, but it would put the heat exactly where I need it to keep the bottom flapper from freezing up.
At night afyer sap stops running one must go trip the releaser, twice. This will empty both elbows. However if you run High vacuum the flappers inside the releaser may stay closed because your Sugarbush is so tight there is nothing to create a pressure difference and open the flappers. Sometimes I will introduce a very small leak to open the flapper and then this will drain the elbow. Otherwise the elbow may not drain.Quote:
Originally Posted by hogisland42
My enclosure has a window. Also WiFi cam has night vision. If you do a heated box of some sort you will wonder why you waited to do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgagne99
Blissville you are 100% right but I need my beauty sleep. Usually doesn't freeze until after I am in bed all cozy, LOL. But yes that is totally what I should do
Yes I hear you there happened to me night before last it probably was midnight before they froze. The only positive side to this is that usually by the time morning rolls around because it froze so late you can usually still get there and Trigger the dump and get the majority of the liquid sap and slushy ice out before it's solid! So it usually does workout okay, but I prefer like last night to get there about an hour at the sap stops running! Worst case scenario I've had two pop the horizontal chamber off and bring the two vertical Chambers inside for a couple hours. It's a pain but on days like that there's not much to do anyway. We are all living and learning that's for sure!Quote:
Originally Posted by hogisland42
Yes it is definatly a pain. Every time I have to get the ice out of it I tell myself, I really need to enclose this thing and heat it. Well its on the list and just havent got to it yet. Maybe next year
Necro-ing this thread... I wrapped the bottom half of my releaser with two seed germination mats from Amazon, and then a few layers of bubble wrap for insulation. I use the temperature controller that came with the mats. I place the releaser on a piece of 1" foam blue-board. Frozen releaser is now a thing of the past.
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