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I just received a new Sunrise Metal Shop 2x6 raised-flue evaporator (just in time for the season!) and decided to post a video review so others could see what they are like, ask questions or share their own experiences with Sunrise products.
Click Here for video and let me know if you have any thoughts / questions.
Attachment 6642
Pretty fancy unit, what did it cost with all those upgrades?
The upgrades were: reflective stainless for the stack and pans (standard is dull finish - like on the arch sides), blower and pre-bricked. The air-tight doors, site glass and fittings are all standard for this unit. I just read the previous thread and someone said we shouldn't post pricing on the forum (not sure why?), but if you call the number and ask "Lee" what a unit like the one sent to me (Jamie Jones) costs, he'll tell you real quick...
I seen one in person at a new dealer in NW PA. They look like a nice unit. It looks like the arch is used for dropped and raise flue. It was hard to tell, but was there a ramp in the back half of the arch? It would push all the flames up into the raised flue. The rear clean out is nice.
Looks like an awesome unit. Bet ya can't wait to fire it up and make some syrup. Would be interested to know how it performs for you. (GPH) Can't wait to get my new W.F. Mason 2x4 with raised flue.
Great looking unit. Were you given an estimate on GPH? A quick calc on surface area tells me around 60 or so.
Gary R. - There is a ramp that keeps going up from the firebox, but then it drops back down and stays flat to the clean-out door in the back. Maybe the same arch could be used with drop flues. I wonder if the floor under the pans should be raised up higher for raised-flue pans? We'll see how it performs.
sutphenj - I was given GPH estimates with various configs (standard/piggyback/preheater/blower/16" flues) and remember my jaw dropping but I need to go back and confirm numbers and I will post them.
I'll also ask them if they mind me posting the price. If they don't mind, then I expect the site managers will be OK with me doing that.
where is sunrise metal shop located?
Topeka, Indiana
Do they make anything biger than 2x6
They make big rigs, too, but I'm not sure what the sizes are. They mentioned some huge VT customer.
do they have some on hand that you seen? something like a 3'x12'
I haven't been to their shop but found this article that has pics of other sizes. Here are some larger ones:
http://s2.hubimg.com/u/7607425_f1024.jpg
Anything more on price or GPH?
The last couple days I've been working on hooking it up to the head tank, putting up heat shields, extending the stack, cleaning tanks & pans and tapping trees, but just left a voice mail with some of the forum questions. Hope they call back with the info before the day is up and I'll post responses.
Lee just called me with some answers:
- Pans are 20 gauge
- GPH 35-40 without blower and 10% increase with blower and same amount of wood
- they can build up to 6' wide, but usually people get add-on elements instead of going so wide:
> "extreme pan" has 16" flues (drop and raised combined) 60 GPH w/o blower
> sapporator (flue pan with air injection) gives 75% increase in GPH
> hoods / preheaters
They said I can share pricing:
2x6 raised flue with stainless (mill) sides: $4655
blower unit: $1200
site glasses: $30
stack (12'): $614
12xinsulation plates: $33.60
12' ceramic blanket: $45
2 x 3" face thermometers: $90
26' rail gasket: $15.60
up-charge for shiny stainless: $175 (pans & stack)
bricks $1.50 x 70
brick-work $175
delivery $300
Did I miss anything?
I think the sapporator is a Sap Raider. It's pretty much a steam away that sits on top of the flue pan with a blower connected to it. I looked at one at Verona. Somewhere I had a catalog from them I picked up at the previous years show. However, there were no prices in it. Looks like quality equipment to me. I would definitely go for the shiny stainless though.
"Sapporator" sounds more like something Schwarzenegger has in his sugar house. :cool: He said it was like a steam away, but that it had flues.
Finally got enough sap to boil "full speed". CLICK HERE to see it in action.
Great videos! Thanks for taking the time to make them available for us. That is one sweet rig and sugarhouse!
thats a crazy boil in the sap pan, nice rig, i can't get a boil like that in my flat pan but like your video when i crank on the blower it makes a huge difference, my only boil this year i could not even see my son standing on the other side of my evap(2ft). because the steam was so thick!! can not wait to get bigger evap.what are getting gph??
When I did my test boil, I measured out 5 gal at a time into my head tank and marked a clear tube coming off a "T" each time. However, now the markings seem totally off by like 30 gallons! Maybe there was an air pocket in my line when I marked it up.
Also, since this contraption is new for me, I'm not going full speed yet (especially towards the end of sap). Even in this latest vid, the firebox isn't fully loaded. I had a couple of scares already - the flue pan boiled over a bit before I poured cold sap in it (I couldn't find the dang oil bottle!) and the syrup pan float couldn't keep up with a full boil (still got to figure this out so I can boil confidently at 1" instead of deeper).
Give me a couple more weeks and I should have some of my own numbers for you...
Hamp, I know you are enthusiastic about the new evaporator, but I recently had a poor experience with these Amish builds. I have an extremely nice pan set that I am using for my third season right now. In December I finally decided to buy hoods. Jim told me he was booked for the season so I reluctantly bought from these guys at sunrise. When I went up to pick up the hoods my dissatisfaction was absolute. The craftsmanship was nothing close to what I was hoping for. When the hoods sit on my Smoky Lake pans the contrast is sharp. The hoods I got from sunrise look like they were made in a cave. I hesitated to ad this post to your advertisement for sunrise in the past, but now that I've used the hood and find that there are two leaks in the condensation channel I just had to share.
Is it the mill finish, the quality of the welds, the design that makes it look bad to you? Can you post a photo to show what you mean? I was thinking about getting a hood for next year...
Regarding the leak - unacceptable. Have you called them about it? Will they fix it for you or did you deal with it somehow?
Did he say how much the sapporator was or the 16' flues? Thanks,Quote:
Originally Posted by CampHamp
-Dave
Dave, I don't remember how much those products cost. You'll need to call them up to ask: 260-463-4026.
Hamp, I dont know how your syrup pan float is set up but most evaporator manufactures say to run the syrup pan at a depth of 1-1/2 to 2 inches deep, because this gives float arm enough depth to properly float and regulate the liquid amount. Your problem with the float not keeping up might be caused by running the pan too shallow. Just food for thoughtQuote:
Originally Posted by CampHamp
Thanks Jeff. I've been running it at 1.75" and it seems good. I don't need to worry about the depth when I draw off now and it's all a bit less hectic in my shack. I never thought of myself as a panicky type until I started boiling sap!
Just wondering how many gph you were able to run? and are you still happy with it after your first season?
I loved boiling with the rig this season. I was on steam pans last year and what a difference! It's amazing to move through sap quickly and have the flow regulated for you and to be able to draw syrup right off the pan while your still boiling away! So cool. Makes it much more fun, I think.
I had no problems with any leak or stuck float. It is easy to reverse the flow (2-3 minutes) and the draw-off setup felt good having some distance for filtering away from the arch sides because the spigots hang off the float boxes. I could check density right from the float box (the finishing side has no float in it) using a short hyrdrometer -- just dunk it right there and when done, leave it standing in the box for next time.
My friend has the 2x6 Leader Revolution pans and burnt his front pan (not completely) this season due to a stuck float, so I know that can happen. Also, he can draw from the same side after reversing flow, but he says he doesn't like the way it cooks in one of the directions (he said the final section of sweet boils differently in one direction of flow). So symmetry of the finishing pan may have it's merits for some people.
The main issue I had, was smoke leakage when using the blower. I used the red "high heat" silicone to make a gasket at the base of the stack and holes developed at the end of the season so I stopped using the blower for the last 2 weeks (I wasn't using it all the time anyway - sometimes you don't need all that excitement when you're working on your own!). I was thinking about using ceramic blanket for next year, but read somewhere on this forum that the ceramic stuff is carcinogenic, so I want to figure out another solution (I've got nephews/nieces running around in there, and , ah... me, too!). It also noticed a few small smoke leaks (again, only with the blower running) along the arch along the edge of the sheet metal but those were pretty easy to spot and plug up. I used dry white pine and it was pretty explosive when I put the blower to it. With 120 taps (41 gal syrup) it didn't feel like I was spending much time boiling this season and I often wanted to boil LONGER than I could when friends/family were visiting! More taps. More taps.
One correction, while I'm writing again... someone asked if the finishing pan had dividers that are welded solid to the pan or spot-welded. I said "spot welded" -- wrong. Each channel in the pan is actually a separate piece of metal bent into a long "U" shaped channel, then those four long pieces are welded together and the front and the back pan sides are spot welded to these channels. Sorry for getting that wrong - only notice it when I took the pan off for the season and saw the seams running across the bottom. I'm not sure if others build them like that or if it is any better, but it seems pretty solid.
Regarding the GPH... I got about 5 emails asking me about that and so I tried to figure it out towards the end - 37 GPH for me without the blower. It's not exact science, but here's my math:
I have a 150 gal head tank and once had enough sap to fill it while I was already boiling away - so I started the iPhone stop watch... I went full speed down to my "finish mark" in 3.5 hrs (which is at 20 gallons left in the tank, then I started closing down). I'm not as aggressive as others I've seen feeding the fire with timer alarms and all, but I tried to keep her going well this run and had dry softwood. So that was smack dab in the middle of the 35-40 GPH they quoted me. At one point in that boil I left for about 15 minutes to rinse filters at the house and it had slowed when I got back, but I am probably 5 gallons from "perfectly full" to start with, so I just ignored both of those variables and assume they cancel out. I didn't use the blower.
I'm not sure how much more with the blower adds because I didn't ever measure it. It seems like a big difference to me just by looking at the increased boil, steam and flow of incoming sap. Next year I'll mark my tank with increments better.
See you all next season (or as we lead up to it).... Jamie
I watched your video on your new 2x6 from sunrise, I was so impressed I called and talked with John he appreciated the video his steel supplier
showed him on a laptop. I ordered the 2x6 jdl extreme and looking forward to burning next year. This year I used a 2x3 at 8gph very long
days and nights. thanks for the reseach you did, hoping for many more taps on gravity next year.
newtap - Exciting stuff. The extreme pans have 16" flu depth. That should be amazing -- certainly will be a change from your 2x3 boiling experience! Please post info when you get it.