New December Journal

Brandon- I think they are pretty good trees and out in the open. I doubt Ill ever put a pump on them as few as they are so thats why I think I may do that. Be fun to see what they do. I was reading a research paper from the 70's and they were advocating up to 80 taps and claiming up to 20 max inches of vac. Im not a gravity man whatsoever but I consider that a fun experiment to see what they do. Plus its quick and easy and more sap. Well see what happens. Theres another 130 tap spot I could do the same thing with but its just a gentle slope with them all together. That would be just several normally loaded lats but the hedgerow one is something that we could see what happens on. They said the vac levels on the natural arent consistent like a pump, different at differant points depending on how good the run etc but it all helps what the heck. Theron

Theron with 90 taps on one 5/16th tubing you had better anchor the end of the line where it enters the tank. That much pressure and it will be screaming thru the air like a fire hose gone wild! Might be a good way to keep the tank pressure washed! LOL
Keep us posted as to how they work out!
Mark

One thing is for sure, it will be good sap quality as bacteria won't stand a chance inside that line. That is one of the reasons I did away with most of my mainlines. I have all my taps on just lateral lines except 170 taps that are on 1/2" mainline and the mainline is only about 100 yards long and I have 3 sections coming into it with aprox 45 taps on lateral lines and the lateral lines are 500 to 700 feet long with many branch lines coming into each lateral so the total length with all the branch lines would probably be 1000 to 1500 feet. The main 5/16" line in each of these 3 sections that dumps into the black plastic mainline acts as a mainline. I used the "Y Forks" for all my entrances. This keeps the lateral lines very nice and tight and I bring them in 12 to 24 inches above the lateral mainline and this way I maintain slope all the time even where it connects to the lateral mainline, it just drops downhill from the "Y Fork". I had my best year ever last year and the highest sugar content I have had in the past 3 years since I started keeping close to exact records. It took 8.5 gallons less of sap compared to two years ago to make a gallon of syrup and the most syrup I had ever made last year.

In my other two bushes, I have 5/16 on my 9 gauge mainline wire with 30 to 40 taps on them and in one bush, I have 2 sections of 5/16" on the same wire. LOL. I use small plastic ties to secure it as the wire was aleady in place where I had black plastic mainline and this keeps the slope constant. I had aprox 80 taps on the one last but, but I didn't like it because I felt it was restricting sap flow too much due to not having but about 1% slope on the mainline section of lateral tubing even though all the taps coming into it had 7 to 10 percent or more in some places. I think it will do better with aprox 45 on each line this year vs 90 on 1 line as I added 7 taps to them.

It's fun experimenting to determine what works best. One a "y" on the farthest tree and a "Y Fork" where it comes into the lateral mainline, it makes for nice snug lines.

Brandon,
What is your syrup / tap ratio?

you take the gals of syrup made that year and divide by # of taps, so if u made 50 gal of 200 taps u made a 1/4 of a gal of syrup per tap

I had 500 taps last year and made 97.5 gallon of syrup all on gravity and my sugar content was 48.42 to 1 sap to syrup which is the best I know of since I starting checking. I usually run 50 to 1 and year before last it was 53 to 1 and 2 years ago it was 57 to 1 or vice versa, I can't remember which. I just know I don't like boiling that much sap to make syrup. I am sure my sugar content would be better if I didn't hold my sap 1 to 4 days before boiling, but working full time and living 1/2 hour away with a family and 2 small kids don't leave a lot of extra time. Besides, I have no sap coming to the sugarhouse and it all has to be gathered with a tractor in 6 different locations in three seperate bushes all different directions and aprox 15 buckets.

Brandon- Does holding the sap have an affect on the sugar content do you think? I can see where it would be real hard to do that away from the house like that with having kids. Thing is you have to use the resource you have access to. Im pretty lucky to have everything here becouse I can be in and out of the house all the time and still get a lot done. If anyone needs me they can just yell of whatever and I can stop. Plus if you want to work for a few minutes you can. I would do it the way you are if thats what I had I probly wouldnt do as much though for the same reasons youve said. Theron

Theron,
I think Brandon is right. If sap sits it loses some sweetness. Bacteria grows and is feeding on the sugar, thus lower %, my understanding anyway.

Update from BIGSAP central- Time of year has got me nervous- Yesterday put 100 and some drops in across the road after it got dark and Christmas was over. Gonna try to put maybe 600 more drops in tomarrow if thats possable and then all the saddles sunday Im hoping. Then I have a few lats left to run over there and thats pretty well done. All that will be left is to do a few mainline connections and hook up the releaser. Then theres three more lateral mains to run. One above my neighbors driveway and then another run I may do above that. I was scouting that out yesterday and theres maybe 150 to 200 good taps on that. That would go directly to the house releaser and with that I think that will max that releaser out on raw numbers. That should be fun to watch if I can get those others in. That releaser is right in the sugarhouse. If its real impressive Ill have Matt do a youtube video of it. If I dont do much away from home this is how sugaring is going to go HOPEFULLY. Wake up, go make coffee, tell the kids to quit fightin, walk out to the sugarhouse on my new concrete sidewalk, climb up the ladder and check the sap level in my big tanks, walk into the sugarhouse and make sure vac gage is pretty well pegged out, Make a new pot of coffee in the sugarhouse, fire up the potbelly and kick back and watch the releaser dump right there next to me. Thats livin. Probly a fantasy too. Lot of stuff to go wrong but Im sticking with the nice fantasy. Theron

BELIEVE IN THE DREAM!!!! When are you tapping?

Parker- Last year I think I tapped first week of feb so Im kind of going with that for now. Id tap in January If I was ready and we had a serious january thaw but Im not really hoping for it. Have to wait and see I guess. Im in full weather watch mode as of now. Probly Feb. youd love the lincoln right now. Got 300 drops and rolls of mainline in the back seat and all my tools. Were in full syrup mode now. Theron

Hey PA,
That's what real stuff is made of .......... "Dreams."
Someone dreamed of going to the moon and , well you know the rest of the story.
It's 7 here as I type.
I figure there's about 51 days before we start tapping.
Hope Santa was nice to everyone!!!

Dave

Isn't that what drives us? Last spring, I had the wife, 4 kids, a friend and I out with headlamps in early April, collecting sap from 350 buckets, 4 nights in a row, in the meantime, the 2x8 was running 14-18 hours a day for week, and when it wasn't running, I was at work.
This is the soil from which dreams sprout!!!
My new system is such that all the sap from every maple on my 40 is waiting from me in tanks in the sugar house, with the new RO just grinning at me, saying 'lets go!'.
Change from the 350 trees producing say 500 gallons of sap on a big day, taking 5-6 hours to collect it all, then 15 hours to process it. Please note this takes a total of 30 to 31 hours, for a 24 hour day!!!
New system goal is the 2000 taps produce 3200 gallons, delivered, (0 hours), with a 600gph RO/evap process, for 5-6 hour time. THE DREAM!!!
Of course working 20+ hours a week on the system all year long is there as well...

Theron,

I would guess I lose a little sugar holding it as I do, but you have to do the best you can do and that's that. I have a Wedco whole house UV and was running all the sap thru that after I pumped it out of the tanks on the tractor but this year I am going to try to let it recirculate thru the UV while I gather vs just the single pass. I also freeze 3 to 5 of the aluminum sap buckets full of sap and throw that in every day. The sugarhouse stays very cool and most of the time, cooler than outside temps as it is on the north side of the hill and the 625 gallon milk tank works good at keeping it cool. I have 3 different people that help boil and they do the majority of the boiling while I am working during the day, but I don't have them start up the evaporator unless they have at least 500 gallon of sap. I would boil a lot less than that myself, but this relegates them to a full day of boiling which works out good.

JeffE I checked out your picks and I see that your sap ladder is very basic and thats what I want to copy. As I see it you DONT have any vents, valves, pin holes for air or hidden ways of making it work other than just the 5/16 tubes with stars?

quick question, im new to the whole vac pump thing but i was wondering how much oil does a vac pump go through in a day? i finally found a container that would fit mine with some reducers and its a thousand island dressing bottle, is that gunna be big enough for 1 days use until i gather and can fill it again?

Somewhere on this forum in another thread there was a producer or two who had 75 taps on a 5/16 line on a steep hill. They said it flowed with good pressure out the bottom. 90 might be a record, but it might be line friction that may slow it down if 90 is too many. There's only 1 way to find out!

On the 24th I spent a few hours measuring and plotting my expansion for the needed mainline and branch lines. Today I installed the support wire, about 900 ft I think. Can't pick up tubing needed til Monday PM. Then on Tues I will start installing mainline and branch lines. On the 24th the snow was over 3' deep on the leeward side of the hill to the lee of the woods line, today it was only about 18-20" after some settling and melting. Didn't need snowshoes today but wished i had them 2 days ago but I left them at the sugarhouse and didn't go back to get them, at the end of about 4 hrs I realized it would havbe been smarter but I excell in doing things the hard way. Something about old dogs and new tricks!

wow no one posted since yesterday, well I just had to change that!

I hope everyone is busy getting ready, for me it is just about 1 month to go-time.
I think I have everything ready to go. I just added a steel plate to the door of the evap to help keep the door from getting so darn hot. I picked up a few jugs for syrup and a few more spiles.

Update from BIGSAP country. Worked all day across the road and should have all the laterals in and drops in this morning over there. Then all I have are the saddles and the tubing is done. That should be complete on thursday. Then both sides of the road are complete as far as everything Ive started. All that really leaves is hooking up the tanks and releaser over there and the tanks at the house. Talked to my other neighbor the other day and he said green light on tapping on him so its off to the races. I think I can get MAYBE 400 more taps in that way that will run into my setup. Thats it if I get them becouse itll be tapping time. Thinking it may be pretty likely that my house double releaser may not take it and so we may be doing something to help that out. I should be able to get some real good videos for you fellas this year. I think as soon as we hit Feb hopefully its frozen up and Im going to tap in. Then its just wait for the temp and hit the switch hopefully. I should have all my lines 100% and then I think I better do some more wood. Thats about it here. Fun to hear about all you guys talk about cranking up for season. Hope its a good one for everybody. Theron

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dano2840

quick question, im new to the whole vac pump thing but i was wondering how much oil does a vac pump go through in a day? i finally found a container that would fit mine with some reducers and its a thousand island dressing bottle, is that gunna be big enough for 1 days use until i gather and can fill it again?

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poping this question again...........

Hi all,
So, the way I see it, it's only 48 mores days till tapping!!!!
Hey, who's counting!!!!
It was warm here today ..... 50 degrees.
Dave

Finally with hunting season and Christmas over, I got some work done. Cleaned out some shooting lanes and brought in about a cord of '10 sugar wood. Added a hinged door to my new hood. Cleaned the new pan and preheater. Welded up a frame to hold a head tank above the sugarshack. Moved the mobile sugarshack by the house, leveled it up and ready to go. Only need to wash buckets, taps and storage tanks. Then I'm ready to go. Not near as many taps as the rest of you guy's. But, it sure tastes great! It was in the 60's yesterday and today after single digits earlier this week. Hoping to start in a month:)

Good luck all.

dano2840, I am not sure about your oil question but which size salad dressing bottle is it? One of the types of bottles I pack syrup in is 8 and 16 oz salad dressing bottles. If you get an answer to your oil question which indicates you need larger, I could send you a 16oz or you could buy a larger salad dressing and eat healthy to empty it before the season. I have also seen a few bottles in stores of that cap size that hold even more dressing. I have seen 20 oz and occasionally a 24oz on a promotional special size.

hanging in Syracuse with the inlaws this weekend...went and spent a few hours this morning talking with Harry Komrowaski, and long time sugarmaker from west of Syracuse. Has a really nice oil fired leader 3 x 8 with hood, etc...last year he made 250 gallons of syrup off 501 taps...nice average. Was primarily looking at his almost 20 yr old Sap Brothers RO. Its similar to the one "ryan" has for sale on craigslist...considering it, but also realize with the extra tanks needed, insulation and heat- not to mention 220 power at the sugarhouse- make it probably out of my budget this year. when we start getting up near 600 taps then we will see about it...

none the less, nice few hours walking and talking maple with a super nice guy and very good sugar maker...

Hey Eric, you were about 15 minutes due south of me. Actually, 5-10 minutes from my new bush where I was all day. I try to stop in and see Harry a couple times during the season. He's usually ready and tapped in before me.

Tim

I know it is not 09 yet, but I bet I am the first to put a tap in. I put up two buckets today. Last spring I sold 400 gal of sap to the local brewery. They made a very good dark beer called "Tappin" from the sap. The brew master asked me for a sample of sap to further develope the formula before next sugaring season. With the temps in the mid 40's, I took two small out of the way trees and hung two buckets this morning. By 3pm I had a quart of sap to give to the brewmaster. I am going to geep the two buckets up. They will be a good indicator as to when to actualy tap. I was also able to put out another 45 taps this weekend. I am looking good for my 2000 tap goal for 09.
Happy new year
Brian

Brian- 1000 gallons of syrup here we come! Theron

The holiday company is all gone now, I can get back to work. Set some beaver traps this AM. Went to the bush and installed about 150 drops this afternoon.
Don't know when I will be finished. Soon I hope.

Dave,

I can answer you question of when you will be done. In this business, never!

Worked in the bush across the road all weekend. Few more taps than I thought. Some awefull nice trees on the bank with two taps in them. Should help the averages witht the cull trees. Bush is real neat allmost straight up and down in some spots. It was hard to run the laterals but with them in you can kind of help yourself get around holding on to them. Beautifull woods. Now Ive got to get the saddles in and do a few mainline connections and finetuning and hopefully done thursday. May have a neat deal worked with a guy on a tanker trailer. He has a 6200 gallon tanker trailer he doesnt use and he wants to hay my fields. I told him he lets me use the trailer Ill let him hay even swap. Hes thinkin about it. If that happens thats going to take a lot of pressure off me. I wont have to take quite as much time off work. Have to wait and see what happens. Hopefully All the tubing complete this week and then I can start on the next batch this next month. Im thinking if season holds off I can get maybe another 400 on the high vac. My dad is starting to wonder If theres something wrong with me. He can sense the BIGSAP I think. Theron

sapman- I'll have to catch up and see your set-up next time in syracuse...when I drive around this area there seems to be just a ton of stands with really nice looking sugar maples untapped...driving down I-81 the other day near cortland it looked like some huge hillsides with nothing but sugars and a perfect pitch, etc...hard to say when your passing at 65 mph but man it looked pretty nice...

Arrgg still waiting for my arch board to come in... the brick was at the building supply but not the board. got the pans and hood off the arch so I can start working on it. not sure how many bricks a 3x8 will take.

tucker,
I know what you're talking about. I notice those hills every time I go through there. There are some procucers in that area, of course, but still, so many acres of virgin forest.

You're welcome to stop by anytime!
Tim

i like BIGSAP!
BUT NOT IN DECEMBER!!!!

Swung a little deal yesterday for some BIGSAP storage. 6200 gallon semi trailer. OH YEAH, BABY! THATS WHAT IM TALKIN ABOUT!!!! That should take a little pressure off. Farmer wanted to hay my fields and he has a nice trailer from when he hauled milk. I told him he hays the fields but he has to park his trailer at my house. No prob he said. Best deal Ive ever swung and he keeps the grass cut so we can payback woodchucks. Cant beat it. Gonna put a BIGSAP sign on it for Parker. Pictures in a month. Theron

And I thought strapping 4, 275 gallon totes to the back of my Ford 550 was going to be "BIG SAP" capacity.

I was back in the bush yesterday afternoon, I installed about a 100 more droplines. I have about 100 more to go. Then it is back though everything to pick up the stranded trees and finish tying off the main lines and that will be done. I went to tractor supply last night and picked up an extra portable pump and a 425 tank for my pickup. Now I will have two trucks to gather with.

Well started getting frustrated that my arch board hadn't been delivered yet called and got a tracking # and found out it was delivered on the 17th of Dec.

Well no box at my house ! I live on a main RD how much you wanna bet that just after UPS left it on my front porch so close to Christmas that someone thought they scored on a good gift being delivered and stole it !! I actually have to laugh thinking when they opened it they said..... what the heck is this stuff???. but I'm n ot laughing thinking there's a thief taking parcels....

Well they will redeliver and ask for a signature this time. still I was hoping I would be bricking by now!!! grrrrrrrr.

steeling= not cool
steeling christmas presents= REALLY NOT COOL
steeling arch board= HONEY GET THE GUN!!!
hehehehe