Anyone else excited as I am for more sugaring this week?! A few days to fix odds and ends and get some rest and then more sap for another week and a half at least!!
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Anyone else excited as I am for more sugaring this week?! A few days to fix odds and ends and get some rest and then more sap for another week and a half at least!!
Agreed...
Good time to fix/improve things. I am getting ready as if it was another season coming, and doing things that I would have done at end of season for next year that will now be done. I reconfigured my vacuum line manifold, and wound up with my vacuum pump/releaser box in my basement shop for some modifications.
It looks like I will be collecting buckets in the snow! 2-3 inches last night, and 3-5 tomorrow. Unlike so many, I do love the winter, although it was nice collecting without tromping on 3 feet of snow. My last 10 gallons of dark was said to have "a little off flavor", and it will be interesting to see what it comes to this time. I don't care, I want to make syrup until even I cannot stand the flavor. I do this because I love it, and it will be over soon enough.
Another Open House weekend in the books!! Great attendance and sales yesterday (new record) but not so much today. We didn't really have high expectations for today and actually didn't intend to be open at all, but we were around working on projects so we did entertain some visitors and sold a few things.
I was having so much fun giving tours yesterday and chatting with people that I never bothered to actually light the evaporator to boil water. People didn't really seem to miss the boiling anyway. Lots of questions about the weird weather and how that affected production this year and fortunately we could tell them that we did fine. A little down from last year but still ended up at about .4/tap. I may have to dip into my "strategic reserve" to keep up with this year's sales but that is ok.
The Open House forced me to get a bunch of cleaning done so now I just have to do a little more work on the evaporator, pull the taps and rinse tubing, clean out the releaser and do the final RO put to bed.
Good luck to all you guys still going!
The spindle system is a little to costly for me to set up. The cost was $11,000 in 2007 but now is more like $15,000 per acre. Because I have no real market lined up for my apples yet I think it would be better to plant just a traditional orchard. As it is if I don't sell my apples I may have to offer deer hunting on my property. :) Home to the 800 pound white tail deer.:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by ryebrye
Spud
I agree with you 100%. I understand a smaller producer may not want to waste time on making low grade syrup. For a larger producer it is a must. If you're selling 500 barrels to a packer they will buy your low grade syrup. If they don't then they don't get the good stuff. Couple years ago the packers said they were only going to pay $1.50 LB so some ended their season. The guy I sell my sap to continued make the junk and then got $2.00 a LB for it. Low grade syrup can be blended and it can be used for many different things. You almost never see quality light syrup sold in the stores. If sugaring is you're business and not just a hobby then it would be foolish to not keep boiling right to the end. If you can get the junk through the filter press then keep on boiling.Quote:
Originally Posted by blissville maples
Spud
I milked cows for years and love dairy farming. If my back was better I would be milking a small herd of Jersey's and making cheese. Go for it bairdswift. You only live once and dairy farming is a great life. Keep it simple and you will make money. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bairdswift
Spud
It's not just about wasting time....for many of us it is about making a quality product we can stand behind. When you sell it direct to the customer, they know who to come find if it isn't what they expected. If you just put syrup in barrels you may not think as much about the final consumer of the syrup and what they think of it, you may just see the paycheck you are going to get. Hence the desire to fill as many barrels as possible regardless of the quality or flavor.
Just because a producer is "small" doesn't mean they don't rely on the income. And just because packers are buying off syrup doesn't mean it should be made. There are lots of barrels of crap syrup sitting in warehouses that will likely never be used.
General.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralStark
We take as much pride in our product as you do. I currently picked up a customer in California that owns a bakery. They are asking for the lowest grade syrup I have as long as it goes through the filter. What their saying is the lighter syrup takes away from the flavor of their goods. A friend of mine who worked for a large packer in Vermont said they were shipping 275 gallon totes to Japan of the lowest grade. He was not sure as to what they were using it for but they were paying almost the same price for the junk.
If a packer has a market for low grade syrup then low grade syrup ( Should be made ). The packers understand that the large sugaring operations cannot afford to stop production once the high grade syrup stops being made. Over the years the packers have found markets for the low grade syrup and have made good money by doing so. This also has helped the large operations make a bit more money. It's not for the General to say when the season should end for all sugar maker's. Is there low grade syrup sitting in warehouses somewhere? There may be but I can assure you it will in time be blended or sold as is for a much higher price then you might think. No packer is buying low grade syrup only to then throw it away. To suggest such a thing is silly. You're customers want high quality syrup and that's what you provide them with. But there is other customers around the country and world that are asking for low grade because it fits their needs. Please also remember that low grade syrup is also of the highest quality. Just because it has an off taste does not mean it's no good. The guts of a crab or lobster are thrown away by most people but large company's use this to make crab cakes and lobster cake. The waste from a pig is used to make sausage. Should we do away with crab and lobster cakes and also pork sausage? Should low grade syrup not be used for flavoring? I can assure you General that if you were a large producer you would have no problem making 30-50 barrels of low grade syrup as long as the packer bought it.
Spud
Very interesting read. Kind of goes against all the old ways of apple tree growth and maintenance we've all heard for years. The cone shape for better light exposure to all fruit bearing limbs makes sense compared to the short rounder tree shape we've all seen for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryebrye
If anyone is interested in birch sap or has a birch bush, check out my related post under 'Tapping Vermont 2016'. Otherwise, good luck to those who are still collecting and may we sugar for many weeks to come!
Spud- You are making syrup now? I thought you sold sap.
I would never in a million years suggest that I could or would tell anyone else what they should do or how they should do it. If someone wants to make syrup until the leaves come out...that is their choice. Just sharing an opinion on a public forum.
Have you ever been to a workshop given by a bulk syrup buyer? Well I have and they always say the same thing. Don't keep making buddy syrup. Simple as that. The buyer I have sold commercial syrup says the same thing as well. He doesn't make any once the bud run starts despite having a market for it.
Sure we all make some but there is a big difference between making off flavored syrup during the season and continuing to intentionally make off syrup once the bud run has started. Sure packers buy it because that is part of the deal, and they find a market for it. I do too. But it is not good syrup and the suggestion that it is a key component of the maple syrup market is off base. Why do you think the Federation is trying to get rid of thousands of pound of it at super low prices?
I know several bulk producers that also sell retail and they all say the same thing. I set aside the best syrup for me and the rest goes to the packer. There is a difference between retail producers' perspectives than those of bulk producers.
The suggestion that people can't "afford" to not make off flavored syrup baffles me. Where do you get this idea? If you can't make your operation work making good syrup then you have a serious problem.
An interesting read on the subject: http://www.omspa.ca/news/
Wow.........
Well how about them peepers....... Lmao bet they wished they never came out after the last couple of days..
Still no buds in our woods here on the mountain. Cold very cold 12* this morning and 18* now. Seems to be like a short deep freeze. I would of never guessed it in beginning of April. Got to try and go out with a bang here at end of the week. Hoping for one last good run. Last boil we made DK-R not com, and flavor was very good still. I don't know what to expect when the sap starts to flow again, but better be ready. Drained and washed all tanks, drained and washed all pans, RO is cleaned and hopefully ready for the grand finally.
Good luck to all still in the game, never give up only comes once a year..
PARKER MAPLE
General,
It sounds like telling others what they should be doing with their operations is exactly what you are saying. Adding that if a person couldn't "make it" in the way you choose to run your operation, that they are a failure. I think you are missing the big picture my friend. I do agree that buddy/off flavored syrup tastes like crap when compared to good flavored syrup. Not nearly as bad as birch syrup, which is worth gold, but that is another topic. My point is that maple syrup is still, and always will remain the worlds greatest natural sweetener. The majority of the good tasting syrup finds it's way to a bakery or onto someones table. The rest is not a useless commodity. There is a market for it, and I think it will continue to grow as food manufacturers continue seeking alternatives to high fructose corn syrup and bleeched cane sugar to sweeten their products. There is no doubt in my mind that I would rather my kids eat food that has been sweetened with an off flavored maple syrup vs. corn syrup.
I also guess I can't understand why a producer of any product would end the season early if they could still make a commodity that was worth money. That just doesn't make sense to me as I depend on this income to pay my bills and feed my family. Each barrel of off flavored syrup that I intend to produce (still making good flavored syrup now) will be worth 6-800 bucks. Lets say I make 6 barrels of this product. That is a lot of coin to leave on the table for a guy like me. Maybe your financial situation is different and you haven't a need for the extra money.
Ben
General- A properly run sugaring operation can and should be able to survive without making off tasting syrup. But why would they want to take 10 years to pay off their operation when they can do it in 7 by making off tasting syrup. Rule number one in sugaring is never believe what a packer tells you. Of corse they are going to tell you not to make the off tasting syrup (their not paying your mortgage). If they promoted off tasting syrup to all sugar makers then they truly would be swamped with syrup. There is only so much good quality syrup a packer can sell. The same is said for low grade syrup. Talk to people that have worked for a packer and they will tell you the off taste syrup sells and there is a market for it. Now if you were a large producer and you could make 50 barrels of off tasting syrup and the packer would pay you $1.75-2.00 LB would you do it? Of corse you would because that's $750-880 a barrel. That extra $40,000 in your pocket each year sure would be nice. You say your commercial buyer friend stops making syrup when the buds start to come out ( Despite having a market for it )? Either that's not a true statement or your friend is not very business smart. I can see him stop making low grade syrup if there was NO market for it but if there is a market then he really needs to get on board. I never said that off tasting syrup is a KEY Component to the syrup market but it is a useful one. The fake syrups in the stores that may have 2% real syrup in them would likely buy low grade syrup at a more affordable price. The same would be for any company using maple for flavoring. It has been said that if you use off tasting syrup to make maple sugar the off taste goes away. I cannot say for sure if that is true but I have heard this from more then one producer. So if a large producer can make and sell off tasting syrup and maybe earn an extra $40,000 doing it then he would be a fool not to. In life there are two kinds of people. Some take one step forward and two steps back and others take two step forward and one step back. It's safe to say the big producers selling buddy low grade syrup are two steps ahead of the others. I must say though General that I enjoy all your post and I look at you as a key asset to Maple Trader and to the Maple industry. I can tell you take great pride in the product you produce and my hat goes off to you for that. It's ok to disagree at times with fellow Traders. I'm glad you had a great season and it was fun reading your post along the way. Up here at the border I hope for another week or more before I call it quits. I like to pull my spouts once the leaves turn RED. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralStark
Spud
Spud
Spud and Ben,
I'm sorry if my comments seem to be condescending towards your way of doing things or your perspective. That is not my intention at all. I take syrup quality from my own operation very seriously, and I am also concerned about it for the industry as a whole. I'm really not sure how aware people are of the broader issue with syrup quality in the industry as a whole. I generally post here from the perspective of a single retail producer but my involvement in the industry goes beyond that.
I appreciate your perspectives and once again I hope I have not overstepped the boundaries of respect. You can likely sense my passion related to this matter. I have met many Traders through they years and everyone I have met are wonderful people. We don't all agree on every matter but I appreciate civil debate and believe it is important for our industry and our society. I have not yet met you guys in person but I do hope to.
I would like to continue this conversation as I think it is very interesting and worthy of further debate. However in an effort to keep this thread more on topic for VT Sugarmakers to post what they are up to I will start a new thread in the next day or two. I hope you will join me there.
Good luck with the rest of your seasons! Even if you are going to be filling barrels with buddy syrup....:)
I assume everyone else who is still going is excited about this deep freeze? I really like that it isn't going to freeze Wednesday night in my area - it's going to take a full day for the trees to thaw out again - but Wed / Thurs / Friday should be a really good run.... then more freezes.
The even more extended forecast has a nice cycle of freeze / thaws going into April 15th. (Now is when I regret telling my wife "Sure, we can leave on vacation on April 14th, sugaring will be done by then this year since it's been such a warm year")
Very excited! A lot of people up my way have called it quits even though there still could be good sap tomorrow or Thursday. I think they got sour on Friday and Saturday. I'm ready for more and we will collect sap and sell (Jericho) and collect sap and boil (Westford) until they don't want sap or we can't make syrup. Hoping that when we turn pump on in Jericho we still are pulling above 28".Quote:
Originally Posted by ryebrye
First time posting on the trader. I've been reading about all your seasons through out the year and i've very much enjoyed reading everyone's posts and staying up to date with the weather/sap runs around the state. We're still going here in Lyndonville/Sheffield Heights area. Sap got very cloudy Saturday with 3 days straight in the 50s/60s but we survived the warm up with no sour taste. Buds still appear to be very tight. We're at 6000 gallons for the season on 21,000 taps, hoping to hit our goal of 8500 which seems very realistic at this point. Good luck to everyone still in the game!
Talking to sugar makers in my area and they are all excited for the warm days to come. We know we will get sap but for how long? The 10 day forecast looks great for my area. The only maple trees that have swollen buds is the very large trees right behind my house. The rest of my woods consist of smaller hard maple and they are showing no buds at all. Is there a reason why the big trees bud first? With this freeze could sugar once again increase for a while? Would it be possible for the quality of syrup to get better again? I am ready and waiting for whatever the trees want to spit out. Good luck everyone.
Spud
It's trickling in at my place this afternoon - it is 38°F but with some wind and not a lot of sun. The sap that is coming in is mostly stuff that has been sitting frozen in the tubing (it's pretty cloudy).
I have a feeling it will take it a while to thaw out and start running.
Same here ryebrye. I think my single vertical has dumped twice all day. lol
It's like February behavior all over again! (Tomorrow it will run for sure) I think it's supposed to warm sightly overnight so I'm leaving my pump on in case the trees wake up and dump sap in the middle of the nightQuote:
Originally Posted by wiam
Same here, pumps stay on until next freezeQuote:
Originally Posted by ryebrye
Pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralStark
yes agreed we want a great tasting product, and you will always have that, however as the season changes the flavor/color does as well. id put my best in a taste test in comparison to yours anyday. thinking about the consumer?? like I said someone has to supply for ice cream, donuts, oatmeals, etc. THEY DONT USE FANCY. they want dark dark dark-commercial- it takes less to flavor their products. I would be very interested whereabouts all this crap syrup that is going unused you talk about is at??? honestly that isnt true, obviously you've never personally talked to Bruce Bascom. furthermore no one makes fancy and some amber then calls it quits, that's foolish. actually it wouldn't surprise me if some do-they in my book are called idiots, just like folks saying this year "ahh derr im not tapping there was no snow" well you morons don't tap and miss one of the best seasons ever-- sick of these pecimistic folks who think if theres not ten feet of snow theres no sap- haven't we learned its not what happens the off season its what happens during sugaring. don't get me wrong snow is good but not neccasary- I would have loved to see some but not going to not tap due to the fact
also these packers, like bascoms, are in it to make money they wouldn't be buying something that had no market
26 here. Froze for the night. Did not really thaw. We got a quick inch of snow. Should run tomorrow.
I think there is definitely a market for Commercial syrup but I also think it might be a tougher market bulk buyers than say good quality syrup. By that I mean more work on their part, between blending and sales. I thought the price was around a dollar a pound for off tasting commercial? If so that tells me the bulk buyers are trying to discourage producers from making a pile of inferior syrup. My 2 cents
i got nothing yesterday. I think it would have ran a little if my laterals weren't froze solid! woke up to 34 this a.m at 530 with 3+" of snow... should run good today! i'll be boiling up tonight and tomorrow evening, then it's clean up on Saturday for me! the wife and I are building a house this summer, so it's time to get on top of that. it's been a great season so far! by the looks of my trees, I could and should go another week minimum... but I guess you gotta have priorities! a happy wife, being one of them!
5 inches of snow this morning. Going to hit 52 degrees by noon. Pumps are on and ready to roll. Lets hope we all get a ton of good quality sap. Good luck everyone.
Spud
It's 50 degrees in hinesburg, still basically just a trickle. I'm in the banana belt so I would expect to thaw a little earlier than most.
The sap was running harder than this right up until it froze Saturday night - it's like they are still too frozen do do anything. I don't think my taps were showing signs of drying up before it froze Saturday night. I didn't get a chance to walk my woods this morning but I will later this afternoon if things still haven't picked up.
The taps are all CV2 spouts on 2-year old tubing... I ran my pump right up until the freeze saturday so sap wasn't just sitting around in the lines very long - maybe the taps have dried up, but if they have it's not for lack of trying on my part. I'll monitor it more throughout the day.
Is it running for anyone else?
I haven't pulled my taps yet and at the moment it is running quite well just on gravity. I would not want to try boiling the sap, but it is running...
58 here in Barnet. Mine are only at a trickle. I think it is just from the 4 day freeze.
It has picked up here. I dumped the few hundred gallons I got yesterday and this morning, but now It's running clearer so I've closed the valves. Testing 1.7, no smell. I cleaned the releaser and our single booster yesterday early morning and that did smell, it was not fun. Good luck all!
Similar situation here. I opened my releaser and cleaned during the cold spell. It was quite bad. My sap did not run at all yesterday, and through the night, and only started late morning when temperature reached 47. First sap was quite cloudy, but running much clearer, and with moderate flow now at 1.4%. I switched tanks, and will probably dump the 75 gallons of cloudy sap, which was a line flush I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by GiddingsHill
It's starting to pick up a bit in Hinesburg - It was about 3 hours to the first time my releaser dumped, then 45 minutes, then 30 minutes, most recent one was 25 minutes... When it runs really hard it will dump about every 2 minutes - so the flow rate is about 20 times less than max flow rate, but it's ramping up.
(If anyone cares about seeing how the sap is running in hinesburg, I have my releaser posting messages on twitter so I can watch it from work - https://twitter.com/ryebryesreleasr the couple things that happened earlier this morning before the 3 hour delay were me cleaning it out and testing it before leaving it for the day)
Running 500 GPH here at the border. Sap is clearing up after a few hours of running. Tanks are cleaned again and the valves are closed. It's time to get back to sugaring. Should run all night and then tomorrow.
Spud
I expected more here in Jonesville. The pumps started at 11:00 and I have about 100 gallons. I dumped the first 50 but it looks clearer now. Anytime I’m dumping the releaser in 10 minutes or less is great. Seems to be about 25-35 minutes at this point. Im thinking I’ll let it run all night and see if the trees are just slow to thaw. The ground is very dry here and I don’t think that helps. My 2¢
very slow, turned pumps off, 2200 taps 200 gals 6 hrs. I guess when you hit april, and the ground has hardened up below, as well as chemical changes in the tree from recent 70's for 3 days its game over. I guess could have saved up for a couple days but if it didn't do much today then I cant see it getting any better!!
Or your tapholes just dried up. I'm still getting an impressive amount of sap on gravity...tempting but not going to do it.
For anyone still interested I did start a thread on making buddy syrup.
http://mapletrader.com/community/sho...Flavored-Syrup