Thanks for the tip Dave! Checked in with Bill and he agrees to raise the front up to the 2" below the pan mark. I'll take care of that when I mortar.
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Thanks for the tip Dave! Checked in with Bill and he agrees to raise the front up to the 2" below the pan mark. I'll take care of that when I mortar.
OK now really done bricking.
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It will become very obvious how that helps when you boil, you will see a very hard boil over that partition. It will be the hardest in the entire pan. Much of the heat causing that would have otherwise gone up the stack.
That is just how my half-pint is bricked. You will like boiling with that rig.
Hope everyone is having a great, albeit dry, summer so far. I was surprised to see some new posts.
I have had an issue with my rear pan (of three) not getting hot till the fire has been going a while. This partition might be a good idea to get it hotter faster. I'll put it on the fall list of things to do!
Good luck Aaron with your new set-up. Looks great.
The next piece of advice is to never use a damper on an wood fired evaporator smoke stack and give it loads of combustion air. A blower help with that. An evaporator works best when it burns as hot as you can get it, but be sure to never run low in the pans or you will burn them. A good starting depth is about 2", but after you get familiar with that gradually start reducing the pan depth until you get to 1-1.25". Then don't leave it unattended and keep an OH $#!T bucket of sap or potable water ready if things get away from you.
Keep it fun!
Got the carport (a.k.a. woodshed & sap storage building) set up today. The instructions that came along with the free carport were for a totally different model so that was a bit of excitement. The back and front walls were useless so I’ll be getting creative on coverings for those. Next step is to build a box out of pallets for the back end next weekend – should be able to hold about 3 cords of wood. Pallets are free and I have nails, a hammer, and a circular saw so total cost so far is about $10!
My tree count is growing. The friend’s place I was hoping for 9 has loads and loads of sugar maples right on the edge of their lawn so I’m increasing my tap goal to 50 for next year, and seriously considering RO as a result.
So two questions today:
Just how big of a storage tank do I need if I’m planning to boil on weekends? I’ve read I should be planning for a max of 2 gallons per tap, 4 times a week… so should I really be thinking in the 400-500 gallon range? There’s room in the carport for 2 of the IBC totes if that assumption is realistic.
On RO ratings, I’ve seen some postings for 100 gph rated RO units that have my attention – is that generally a sap processing rating or the concentrate produced? The RO bucket might be enough to use “in-line” but it might be worth the extra spending this year to think larger RO and cut down the boiling time and have room to grow.
Well… I’ve become a full addict spending every minute of free time scheming and building my beginner maple empire. Dad and son pitch in quite frequently so we have a multi-generational team working on the future.
Got the carport/woodshed in place and spent a few days on the chop and table saws cutting the 2’ 4x4 untreated post ends into 11 1/2” x 1 ½” pieces. The right side is almost full so about 1.5 cords of three cut so far. Changed the interior design putting a doorway behind that center post to accommodate an IBC tote elevated by a 4 x 4 platform so I can put a 5-gallon bucket under the spigot (my first “deck” building experience!) and still get a wheel barrel up to the wood.
I have new respect for the cost of pressure treated wood. So far all the wood was free off the scrap pile at my sons work, but had to buy some at Depot for the gravel base frame which went in last weekend. But, based on the treating codes, my son was the treater of that wood so we kept it in the family. Stone coming tomorrow and compactor rented to finish off the pad. Small 8x14 sugarhouse plans purchased and that will be next year’s family project so the pad is for that.
Also on this weekend’s the plan is moving the garden and compost pile and taking out a couple small trees to allow for a driveway right up to the site this weekend.
Then need to move the arch to the site and mortar the bricks, sticking to the overall plan of getting the arch in place by the end of September. Just going with a 10 x 10 vendor tent this year to keep out of the weather.
October plan - Once the frost hits and the poison everything dies off I’ll need to work on thinning the woods to get better access to the trees. And cutting more wood until the carport/woodshed is filled.
Some pics of the progression:
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I did have a quick question though. Should I put a door in the front of the deck there so the sap is inside vs exposed? That's what the concrete footings are for, and I can rig something up with the door piece that came with the carport. It wasn't in condition to hang like it should normally, so I was thinking of making a wooden/removable frame to hang it once the winter hit.
750-1000 gallon tank, plastic tanks hold bacteria so, it will reflect the syrup quality. I would go with stainless holding tank and use the plastic for a transport tank. The sap is like milk, it sour. Keep it cold. I think a week is to long to store sap.
How are you making out? Trying to decide to build a brick arch or weld one for my new to me pans.
Doing GREAT! Every weekend plugging away.
Gravel pad is complete, canopy up, stove in place, top row of bricks rounded (might still round the front and back yet), chimney went up this past weekend, and plugging away on cutting up the wood. Wiring the blower this week and more wood cutting planned for the weekend... almost done with that. Taps bought, tubing cut, buckets drilled, Went with the 275 gal tote due to costs and need to make a cradle for two 55 gal drums to fit in my truck or a trailer for collecting and buy a few more accessories that Santa might not provide, but the end is in sight! Very excited and keeping busy.
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If that stack arrangement doesn't work as you expect, try moving the first 45 closer to the arch, and extend the next section to be 2x as long, then the 45 to go up. Oftentimes a long flat will not be ideal.
Aside from that everything looks real nice.
Thanks for the tip Dave. The run to the first 45 is angled about a half bubble off on the level, but I'll see what happens on the test boil and change if needed. For now focusing on getting the wood finished before any snow moves in. I definitely have enough for this season but trying to fill'r up anticipating for 2022.
(AND!! The chimney survived last night's wind storm - wasn't totally sure it would but the garden stake braces held it in place)
Very impressive. Keep up the good work.
Got the blower wired (another first - never wired a motor before), installed bucket covers for what will be my collecting drums, and ordered the pan cover this weekend. Might run over during the week to attach the blower to the arch as it looks like rain the next two weekends, but have a couple of inside projects I can tackle - cradle for the drums to sit tightly in my truck bed and doing the initial wash/sterilization on 33 5 gallon buckets & covers I picked up at Tractor Supply. 11 weekends (+/- 2) to go!
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Hi Folks - A couple questions on hot water supply.
I'm trying to come up with an idea for hot water at the site for sanitizing and cleaning and wonder what people do when the house is a good distance away.
Question 1 - The hose: The house has a basement sink with a hot water spigot on the faucet and is about 150 feet away. I have regular garden hose long enough from my yard that I was planning to run for the hot water supply. I won't use it for sap, just cleaning and sanitizing and wondered if that is a good idea or not. If I were going to use it for the sap or syrup I'd get the right kind of hose, but any issues with a garden hose for cleaning, would I actually be "cleaning" with a garden hose or introducing contaminants? Amazon has a 150' drinking water hose that isn't totally outrageous, and a 125' that's a bit cheaper. I'd have to measure precisely before buying if that is what I should be doing.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XNJ6PSG...ing=UTF8&psc=1
Question 2 - HOT water: A neighbor showed me a propane-driven hot water system he rigged up that he said was basically an RV hot water heater. Cost wise it's about the same as the hose would be so if the garden hose idea is bad, bad, bad I'll take a look at that.
Something like this mounted on a dolly with the propane tank under it is what he had rigged up https://www.amazon.com/Camplux-Outdo...67582208&psc=1
Thanks for any advice!
-Aaron
Moving right along...
Drum connection T and sap hauler complete, bucket cover installed on tote, made kindling out of a small birch tree that we took out for the driveway this summer, and installed the sight glass. Ran my first 2-hour test boil to initially clean the pan and set the mortar yesterday - EXCITING! Granted it was just water and a "small" fire, but hit a solid 10 GPH on my little 20x30 arch maintaining a 2" depth so I was pretty pleased.
Stack temp hit 600 at one point and maintained around 400-500 degrees so I assume a bigger fire will bump that up once the setting fires are complete (4 to go). I believe I am aiming for 650-800 based on postings I have read. I noticed backing down the blower to the medium/high point rather then full blown "on" upped the temp, and also saw it drop dramatically just as the timer was hitting the 6 minute mark for refilling wood.
Decided on the propane tankless hot water heater and will get that assembled and running shortly. Then the trailer-to-tote pump setup needs installing. The building phase is almost complete!
Couple things noticed when boiling:
Had ashes blowing into my bucket where the syrup discharge/filter will be so will probably add some of the leftover ceramic blanket to seal that off. Also, the sight glass has no way to be removed if sap still in the pan, so picking up another ball valve to add before the gauge to handle that (unless there is some sort of plug...?)
Finally, starting a new job tomorrow and ended 2020 65 pounds down (who knew sugaring was an exercise plan!).
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Your valve arrangement is basically how I did it when I had to haul sap 7-9 miles ( 2 bushes, one 7 miles, and another 2 more miles past #1). I had a 18' gooseneck trailer and used 2 tanks of 275 gal each at times, 3 at other times, valved together like that. It worked well. However, I always filled one at a time, so I only had a max of one sloshing around for the haul to the sugarhouse, easier on the brakes and the corners. Even though I have a 1 ton, I still felt the weight especially down the one long hill I had with a stop at the bottom.
Despite the fact that most of us probably grew up drinking from garden hoses from time to time, they are not water potable due to their often being made from recycled/regrind materials. Better to go with the drinking water hose you linked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Stack
Thanks Dr Tim - I went with the drinking water hose and will be rigging up the tankless hot water heater for cleaning. Going food safe with everything to make growing easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins
Dave - Thanks for the tip on filling one side before the other. I was thinking of an equal fill to more or less distribute the weight but will give your input a try. Thankfully the only large hill is on the way "to" the bulk of my trees about 5 miles away... maybe a little more, and I can take the longer route back which has no hill to worry about if it stresses the truck pulling a full load.
How is everyone's season prep coming? I still have a few things left to fabricate with my 275 oil drum evaporator and to paint it. As it is my first season I am a little worried about getting it right the first time that I boil. I do have a few buckets out there, however I am worried that I might not have the right buckets. I ended up getting 5 gallon water jugs from work that look like they will work perfectly, small opening for the drop line, however, I am now worrying about ice forming on the inside of them. Any one use these in the past? Pros and Cons?
i like my five gallon buckets. never had any freeze solid just form ice on the outside. I would pick it out and pitch it. you are not losing any great amount of sap. Kinda of natures way of removing water. they work just fine.
Been taking advantage of no snow and working in the woods. We got our new mainline up, 500' of 1" and 350' of 3/4". 28 laterals all hooked up for 146 taps. This one will be set up with a shurflo, solar panel and S3 controller. Only thing left to do in these woods is run the spinseal and that one is already to tap. Put 125 zap bacs on the new bush we installed last year and replaced a few damaged drops, that one is ready to tap. Put new taps on our last old bush which will be torn down and redone next year, that one is ready to tap. Only woods work left to do is run the new 3/16" line and the spinseal which should be done this weekend. We're ahead of the game thanks to the lack of snow and ice (haven't been fishing yet!) Still plenty to do around the shack and setting up controllers, pumps and solar panels. But that's easy roadside or inside work, don't need snowshoes for that!
Also enjoyed our best holiday sales season ever. Over $1500 of syrup in November and December.
I think small openings will make picking out ice problemmatical. Do you have a pic of the buckets?
Backwoods, Great to hear! The lack of snow has made it quite easy for everything. I am very much waiting for the deep freeze that I don't think we will get this year for ice fishing, so should make for an interesting syrup season. Glad you were able to have a great sales season. I am hoping to get rid of my 2021 stock as soon as I make it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebackswoodssyrup
To answer your question eustis22, I don't have a picture but think about the water cooler at the office where you have to flip them in order to get them into the dispenser. I have attached a web link to one though. I just don't have a clue as to if they might freeze when I pickup for collection.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/American-...ctedSellerId=0
ok, please keep in mind that they will freeze at the top so you will have a considerable ice plug blocking your attempt to drain that. I would recommend the 5 gallon food grade buckets ate home depot or lowes before using a water cooler jug. That way you only need a little melt to pull the frisbee of ice out.
I have used some of the square 5 gallon containers for several years and so like them. You will not be able to remove the ice but usually can get a hole in the top of the ice to drain the liquid. The remaining ice will keep the next run cool.
We have spent the fall getting the inside of the sugarhouse finished. When we built it we got the evaporator in just in time to start boiling and the inside never got touched. Its fully insulated with Roxul and it was getting annoying having Roxul dust everywhere. Is it wrong to have tile on the walls, and a heat pump in your Sugarhouse? We will find out! Ill post pictures once its done.
We sold our 2x6 and ordered a 2.5x8 CDL Venturi back in August...but it still has not arrived yet. Still lots of prep to get done and get our learn on with the new evaporator whenever it arrives. Just started getting parts together for a new autodraw that will have a stack temp controller as well for monitoring when we need to toss more wood in. Hopefully soon!
Lots of new drop lines to prep. 5 years on tees and taps is to long as we have seen huge drops in production on our original 3/16 runs, even with Shurflo's on them.
I'm not following. What does this:
> 5 years on tees and taps is to long as we have seen huge drops in production on our original 3/16 runs
mean, please?
It is recommended that you change your taps yearly. Obviously not many of us could afford to do this. But as the years go by bacteria forms in the taps and tees and when the sap slows at night it causes the bacteria to back into the tree which will cause it to heal up hence shortening your season. Changing the taps and tees/drop lines should get us back to year 1 production rates. We are also testing check valve taps this year to see if there are any benefits to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by eustis22
Let me know if you see a more pronounced production rate with check valve taps v. regular ones, I would be interested in hearing! Hopefully your new evap comes soon especially since you sold your old one!Quote:
Originally Posted by West Sumner Sugar
By that point, just from a sanitation standpoint, you'd be down to about 50-60% of Yr 1 sap yield. It could be even less if you had serious plugging issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by West Sumner Sugar
Lots of research information on the subject of sanitation influences of spouts and drops on yield at: https://mapleresearch.org/search/?_sf_s=sanitationQuote:
Originally Posted by Tuckeradams2012
Thank you
I change out my drops and tees yearly so I just wanted to make sure.
You are correct, we used to think we had leaks in the system resulting in lower yield. Hoping to be back at 100% or close to it with new tees, drops and taps.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins
If our 3/16” line works good, I think I’m going to try:
Year 1: all new with smartspouts
Year 2: new tees and zap bacs
Year 3: new tees only
Year 4: all new again and restart cycle
Only 34 taps for us so not really a cost issue. I do not plan on trying to clean the lines.
How about boiling taps for 10 minutes like you're purifying water? Will that kill the bacteria? I'm essentially thrifty at heart, but I don't want to sacrifice sap flow just to save $20. I have been boiling taps each year since 2013 just because it seemed like a good idea. I boil my drill bit too.
I've done that and had good results. Now saying that those have been taps for buckets hanging on trees and taps with tubing down to 5 gallon buckets. I do add baking soda to the water while boiling, then put the taps in.
Probably a silly question, but why the baking soda?
Helps to clean some of the wood debris off the taps.