2018 Bulk Price

While a national campaign could help a lot, I see no advantage to bundling the syrup into one pool. It is well documented that each area produces a syrup taste unique to that region. I feel that is why I do so well selling all of my syrup at retail.
That was not always the case, in my early years I retailed it all, but then my production grew faster than my market, I then sold bulk for about 8 seasons. Then after 2015 I cut back and have only grown to meet my retail demand (from 1320 in 2015, to 725 in 2016 to 750 in 2017 and then 850 this season.
I far prefer keeping marketing on a local level, thus I think local co-op's could be helpful but not state wide or even worse, regional. I realize that some producers might not be able to market all they make for various reasons, but I feel most should try to market more. This might be a place for even without a formal co-op or other arrangement, the local producers in each are might well benefit from keeping a list of what syrup other local producers have on hand that might be for sale. That way, as one runs low, they could buy from a local producer. This way there could easily be a price arrived at somewhere in between what bulk buyers pay and what bulk sellers sell for, making it a win/win for both parties. That would also help keep the regional flavors protected.
I see part of the bulk price issue as being caused by too many needing their cash NOW , rather than waiting and I understand how that is, but the more producers are able to hold their bulk until a more local producer needs some, the better things will get.
I know a single check looks good, but when you can make more by spreading it over a whole year just makes more sense (and more $). I'm just glad I can afford to wait and don't need the cash to pay debts right after the season because I borrow nothing to need to repay. The worst I have is on rare occasion I need to split a credit card and only pay a bill over 2 months, but 95% of the CC bills are paid in full each time. I also, have no other farm bills, even my home has no mortgage, my truck was bought cash, my tractor I paid cash and I realize in that respect I'm above the curve where most would not be able to do this.
My advise towards that means, is accelerate your debt payments, and force yourself to pay them first, starting with the highest interest rate one and working back towards the lowest one. Then as you finish paying one debt off, put that amount towards the next. Do not think of it as a time to celebrate until the last one is paid in full. Then celebrate by paying yourself in a savings or investment. This worked wonders for me, however to get there we lived a little close to the belt until we were set.

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Originally Posted by maple flats

While a national campaign could help a lot, I see no advantage to bundling the syrup into one pool. It is well documented that each area produces a syrup taste unique to that region. I feel that is why I do so well selling all of my syrup at retail.
That was not always the case, in my early years I retailed it all, but then my production grew faster than my market, I then sold bulk for about 8 seasons. Then after 2015 I cut back and have only grown to meet my retail demand (from 1320 in 2015, to 725 in 2016 to 750 in 2017 and then 850 this season.
I far prefer keeping marketing on a local level, thus I think local co-op's could be helpful but not state wide or even worse, regional. I realize that some producers might not be able to market all they make for various reasons, but I feel most should try to market more. This might be a place for even without a formal co-op or other arrangement, the local producers in each are might well benefit from keeping a list of what syrup other local producers have on hand that might be for sale. That way, as one runs low, they could buy from a local producer. This way there could easily be a price arrived at somewhere in between what bulk buyers pay and what bulk sellers sell for, making it a win/win for both parties. That would also help keep the regional flavors protected.
I see part of the bulk price issue as being caused by too many needing their cash NOW , rather than waiting and I understand how that is, but the more producers are able to hold their bulk until a more local producer needs some, the better things will get.
I know a single check looks good, but when you can make more by spreading it over a whole year just makes more sense (and more $). I'm just glad I can afford to wait and don't need the cash to pay debts right after the season because I borrow nothing to need to repay. The worst I have is on rare occasion I need to split a credit card and only pay a bill over 2 months, but 95% of the CC bills are paid in full each time. I also, have no other farm bills, even my home has no mortgage, my truck was bought cash, my tractor I paid cash and I realize in that respect I'm above the curve where most would not be able to do this.
My advise towards that means, is accelerate your debt payments, and force yourself to pay them first, starting with the highest interest rate one and working back towards the lowest one. Then as you finish paying one debt off, put that amount towards the next. Do not think of it as a time to celebrate until the last one is paid in full. Then celebrate by paying yourself in a savings or investment. This worked wonders for me, however to get there we lived a little close to the belt until we were set.

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Well said Dave. You are right on about regional flavors. Joining into one big group would make us a Cartel like Quebec. I think everyone wants more local control than that.

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Originally Posted by BAP

Well said Dave. You are right on about regional flavors. Joining into one big group would make us a Cartel like Quebec. I think everyone wants more local control than that.

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I agree but I don't think there is any reason why you couldn't have a campaign about maple syrup in general, particularly American syrup. 2/3's of the country doesn't know the difference between the fake stuff and the real stuff. Plus, they probably just think of Canada. I can't tell you the number of restaurants that will tell you that they serve "real" maple syrup only to find out that it is the fake stuff. I sell at a lot of markets across the country and there's a lot of education when you leave "maple country" but the sale is easy after that.

We could open up a lot of markets if there was a campaign simply about maple syrup in general. In particular, you bring up the regional flavors. I don't think many people know about that because outside of maple country they only get blended syrup (blends of different farms) and rarely from a single farm/region. If people knew that, I think it would be like wine where people would seek out different flavors which would lead to more sales in general. I think there's lots of ways that the market for syrup sales could be increased. We have the product, we just need the new markets and each of us alone can't do all that work!

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Originally Posted by maple flats

My advise towards that means, is accelerate your debt payments, and force yourself to pay them first, starting with the highest interest rate one and working back towards the lowest one. Then as you finish paying one debt off, put that amount towards the next. Do not think of it as a time to celebrate until the last one is paid in full. Then celebrate by paying yourself in a savings or investment. This worked wonders for me, however to get there we lived a little close to the belt until we were set.

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Well that's just darn anti-American! :lol: JOKE JOKE JOKE

More seriously, I agree. My philosophy has always been, it's not how much you make, it's how much you spend, and more importantly, how much you save. The goal is to work hard now, retire comfortably (and early) later.

Well I guess it’s my turn. Look I don’t make too much syrup, 20 gallon or so most years. However it really made me stop and think one day when a local kid said he had never had maple syrup. Since then I send 2-3 gallons to the local schools every year for breakfast programs or special pancake days. I just couldn’t get that kids voice outa my head, it just didn’t seem right. If we want to make a change let’s start one litre or gallon at a time. That’s my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins

Well that's just darn anti-American! :lol: JOKE JOKE JOKE

More seriously, I agree. My philosophy has always been, it's not how much you make, it's how much you spend, and more importantly, how much you save. The goal is to work hard now, retire comfortably (and early) later.

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Yea, I retired at 51 but after 2-3 weeks I got bored. I then started driving school bus and still had too much free time, so 4 years later I started making maple syrup. I drove for 19 years and finally retired at 69. I was then ready to retire, but I still do a little subbing driving bus, just not in maple season.

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Originally Posted by maple flats

Yea, I retired at 51 but after 2-3 weeks I got bored. I then started driving school bus and still had too much free time, so 4 years later I started making maple syrup. I drove for 19 years and finally retired at 69. I was then ready to retire, but I still do a little subbing driving bus, just not in maple season.

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Couldn't you fit a tank in the back of the school bus? Just remove a few seats - I think it would make an excellent sap hauler! :lol:

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Originally Posted by Parker

but i think of the guys i know with 50k taps and thats alot of retailing......

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Retailing for the small guy is no doubt part of the answer. However, be careful what you wish for! Once the bigger guy does the same thing, he can compete on price, and he will. Don't believe me? Look at those Craigslist ads for $35/gal syrup.

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Originally Posted by wdchuck

Retailing for the small guy is no doubt part of the answer. However, be careful what you wish for! Once the bigger guy does the same thing, he can compete on price, and he will. Don't believe me? Look at those Craigslist ads for $35/gal syrup.

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Wait.....we will soon see $25/gallon. Like you say, "race to the bottom."

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Originally Posted by Robert K

Well I guess it’s my turn. Look I don’t make too much syrup, 20 gallon or so most years. However it really made me stop and think one day when a local kid said he had never had maple syrup. Since then I send 2-3 gallons to the local schools every year for breakfast programs or special pancake days. I just couldn’t get that kids voice outa my head, it just didn’t seem right. If we want to make a change let’s start one litre or gallon at a time. That’s my 2 cents.

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I've been thinking the same way. Getting children the opportunity to have syrup seems like a huge deal to me. I'm planning to provide our church's summer camp in the Adirondacks with syrup for the summer. The director is very excited about it.

Woodchuck,,,i was talking about the smaller producer like most of us here...the big guys are not geared to retailing and establishing a market for 25k gal ,,,thats real tough work and very time consuming,,and really you have to be a very special person to pull that stunt off and maintain your shelf space.....(agine i have the highest respect for packers as they have worked very hard to get what they have,,read bruces book,,,the dude works nonstop and took and takes huge risks constantly risking all he has worked HARD for...a 15 million dollar line of credit does not come without real collateral)
Take the maple guild in island pond for example...with all their money,,with all the resourses availabel to them,,with going to food trade shows that are EXPENSIVE to attend how much of their crop have they been able to move? (Of course the way their syrup tastes might have something to do with it,,yes i have tasted it)...
My brother bought me a small nip bottel of syrup at the king arthour flour shop in vt...the syrup was fancy in color but literaly made me gag,,i suppose the packer thought it was a good way to geg rid of nasty late season shemegma...not a good market building idea...(dont know who packed it)
In reality its easier for a guy with 1000 gallons to sling his product retail than someone with 50 k taps.....imho.......and its eaiser to move product when it tastes good

That being said i do wish everyone the best of luck

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Originally Posted by Parker

Woodchuck,,,i was talking about the smaller producer like most of us here...the big guys are not geared to retailing and establishing a market for 25k gal ,,,thats real tough work and very time consuming,,and really you have to be a very special person to pull that stunt off and maintain your shelf space.....(agine i have the highest respect for packers as they have worked very hard to get what they have,,read bruces book,,,the dude works nonstop and took and takes huge risks constantly risking all he has worked HARD for...a 15 million dollar line of credit does not come without real collateral)
Take the maple guild in island pond for example...with all their money,,with all the resourses availabel to them,,with going to food trade shows that are EXPENSIVE to attend how much of their crop have they been able to move? (Of course the way their syrup tastes might have something to do with it,,yes i have tasted it)...
My brother bought me a small nip bottel of syrup at the king arthour flour shop in vt...the syrup was fancy in color but literaly made me gag,,i suppose the packer thought it was a good way to geg rid of nasty late season shemegma...not a good market building idea...(dont know who packed it)
In reality its easier for a guy with 1000 gallons to sling his product retail than someone with 50 k taps.....imho.......and its eaiser to move product when it tastes good

That being said i do wish everyone the best of luck

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It seems there is alot of yucky tasting syrup around which certainly won't grow the industry. We were at the Leader open house today and there was a bottle opened next to the coffee maker (apparently to put in coffee?) That syrup should not be on the table!!!!

I believe the supply and demand right now is a huge problem. Big installs all over . That syrup has to be sold someplace. On the flip side marketing is I think a bigger problem. If you look at the geographical region of the world that syrup can be produced in we should all be running out. Education is going to be key. The industry is following suit to dairy and logging. Bigger better faster equipment and to much product. But I believe do to the small region of the world syrup can be produced in we may have some light at what seems like a long dark tunnel right now.

If you bottle your own syrup and it tastes gòod you have a real advantage over a large packer who blends lots of syrup together,,some good and some late season nasty when seĺling to customers where taste matters........plus you are going to have a better story to sell the syrup with as to where the syrup came from and how it was produced....therd are oppertunities in every market if you look for them
Which syrup would you rather buy :" we made this syrup from our small familey farm where we carfuly tend our 4000 taps and boil on a traditional wood fired evaporator, come on by and check the sugarhouse out sometime
Or
"We buy syrup from many producers and mix it all together and we have a low price"
The story you tell when you sell can make a differance

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Originally Posted by Parker

Woodchuck,,,i was talking about the smaller producer like most of us here...the big guys are not geared to retailing and establishing a market for 25k gal ,,,thats real tough work and very time consuming,,and really you have to be a very special person to pull that stunt off and maintain your shelf space.....

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Although we agree on most points, re-consider Crown Maple and The Maple Guild (Island Pond). The primary function of each is to not make money. They are both now in the mass distribution channels (I saw one of them in WalMart). In my opinion, its the mass distribution and sudden availability of maple at a low price that will keep prices low. I wholesale all of our syrup, 1000 gals+ every year, and the one trend I'm noticing is that there is hardly a spot on the map that cant get maple syrup from their distributor. Once the scarcity and uniqueness is gone, all we've got left to sell is our own individual story, and if we're all doing that and cant/won't compete on price, it'll be some tough sleddin! ....If you're up this way, look me up,....

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Originally Posted by markcasper

It seems there is alot of yucky tasting syrup around which certainly won't grow the industry. We were at the Leader open house today and there was a bottle opened next to the coffee maker (apparently to put in coffee?) That syrup should not be on the table!!!!

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Mark I was there yesterday also and seen that syrup. Did you taste it?

Radio Silence.

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Originally Posted by S.S.S

Mark I was there yesterday also and seen that syrup. Did you taste it?

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Yes we got there before 1. The first thing I did was take a spoon and sample that 1/2 pint. It made your mouth pucker thats for sure. I guess there was a reason it was obviously destined for coffee. Really though, syrup that taste like that should not be on anyones table! When Phil was making cream he was using his own syrup. Their syrup was top notch, very good tasting!

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Originally Posted by markcasper

Yes we got there before 1. The first thing I did was take a spoon and sample that 1/2 pint. It made your mouth pucker thats for sure. I guess there was a reason it was obviously destined for coffee. Really though, syrup that taste like that should not be on anyones table! When Phil was making cream he was using his own syrup. Their syrup was top notch, very good tasting!

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I didn’t taste it I should of thou. Where you the guy with short hair and overalls on?

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Originally Posted by S.S.S

I didn’t taste it I should of thou. Where you the guy with short hair and overalls on?

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Yes I had bibs on. Were you the guy with the wife that was near the candy machine?

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Originally Posted by wdchuck

Although we agree on most points, re-consider Crown Maple and The Maple Guild (Island Pond). The primary function of each is to not make money. They are both now in the mass distribution channels (I saw one of them in WalMart). In my opinion, its the mass distribution and sudden availability of maple at a low price that will keep prices low. I wholesale all of our syrup, 1000 gals+ every year, and the one trend I'm noticing is that there is hardly a spot on the map that cant get maple syrup from their distributor. Once the scarcity and uniqueness is gone, all we've got left to sell is our own individual story, and if we're all doing that and cant/won't compete on price, it'll be some tough sleddin! ....If you're up this way, look me up,....

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Spot on my friend.

Spud

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Originally Posted by markcasper

Yes I had bibs on. Were you the guy with the wife that was near the candy machine?

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Yep that was us

I agree with you guys that with more players in the market marketing will be more difficult,,,but,,,i woyld argue that there will be many who wont make the effort and if yoy have a better story and are reliabel (especialy if you have a unique product, angle and plenty of hustle) there is oppertunity....
As far as the bulk price,,,,its going way down,,,,imho......the packers only have so much money, storage, production ability, and, markets to supply

It's the producers in Maine and Massachusetts that have the largest opportunity knocking on their door for diversifying into a new market....

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Originally Posted by Scm

Now your thinking. But how do you infuse the two? Butters and oils have the fat that the molecule need to stick too. I don’t think it sticks to sugars.

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Steam maybe?? I know that everything that I wear in the sugar shack while boiling is infused with maple smell, probably taste as well.:cool:

Nuts! The munchies need to be satisfied.

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Originally Posted by Parker

I agree with you guys that with more players in the market marketing will be more difficult,,,but,,,i woyld argue that there will be many who wont make the effort and if yoy have a better story and are reliabel (especialy if you have a unique product, angle and plenty of hustle) there is oppertunity....
As far as the bulk price,,,,its going way down,,,,imho......the packers only have so much money, storage, production ability, and, markets to supply

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It depends, when I was at the Leader open house I was talking with the older Gillian fella from Leader. He said he had a talk with Bascom and that he told him he can't lie to these producers, referring to the exchange rate. The exchange rate has narrowed substantially over the past year. He said that Bruce has quite a nice profit sitting there in terms of what the exchange was when he bought the syrup compared to what it is now, he mentioned a 2 million dollar profit just because of "buy low, sell high". He also told Bascom that he will be forced to pay up if the exchange rate keeps narrowing or he simply won't get the syrup. You can interpret it for what its worth, but this is what he told us.

I also became aware that Andersons is looking for syrup which is a good thing, running low. I was told by a key player that there is syrup out there, but people are sitting on it and won't let go. I think anything below $2 a pound will reach a barrier for many producers. Their going to start to ask themseleves, (including myself), why are we doing this? Not sure about you's out east, but Anderson has gotten to be a very large player in syrup packing. They have got to be in the top 10 in North America, if not more in terms of volume.

I also noted at the open house....very few people at the maple cream show, but hoards at the tubing installation seminar. So that simple observation tells where people want to spend their time, and could be intrepeted to tell you their is room for growth in value added. The problem is the time it takes to make and market it does not match or come close to a job in town.

Pete from Roth sugar bush was talking at maple institute in Wausau and was saying if there's so much syrup out there then why can't you get any when you call out east to buy some. He said they tell you don't have any available to sell.

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Originally Posted by S.S.S

Pete from Roth sugar bush was talking at maple institute in Wausau and was saying if there's so much syrup out there then why can't you get any when you call out east to buy some. He said they tell you don't have any available to sell.

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I am sure there could be some found....at the right price. When it jumps to $3/ pound, then I'll be a believer. Do you really think that ANY equipment salesman will want you to think there is a surplus?

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Originally Posted by S.S.S

Pete from Roth sugar bush was talking at maple institute in Wausau and was saying if there's so much syrup out there then why can't you get any when you call out east to buy some. He said they tell you don't have any available to sell.

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I doubt that they can’t find Syrup to buy, I suspect they just don’t want to pay anything for it. There is a mountain of syrup in storage around here.

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Originally Posted by markcasper

..very few people at the maple cream show, but hoards at the tubing installation seminar.

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That is our experience as well. We are asked frequently to talk on a wide range of subjects. Production talks we give are usually well attended. Others are rather hit and miss. Some we have been told are really important to the maple industry so we need to do education on the subject, and end up with 2-3 people. Although we do them, it is much more satisfying to have a room full.

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Originally Posted by Scm

Now your thinking. But how do you infuse the two? Butters and oils have the fat that the molecule need to stick too. I don’t think it sticks to sugars.

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I'm afraid that is a trade secret....;)

Radio Silence.

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Originally Posted by amaranth farm

Some of the search terms I used to look at this subject online included THC, attach, molecule and sugar. The basic answer is that it does not readily bind with sugar. Fats and alcohol are the standard bearers. However, that never deters science when there is a profit motive.



Now, a little further research shows that this may not be the answer we are looking for. Seems that how TCH gets into the blood system attached to another molecule is very important. The gist is that sugar permeates the stomach walls in a different manner than fats or alcohol. That process can actually lead to the body dumping THC into a waste stream instead of making its way to the receptors that give you the altered state. That would mean that alcohol and fat are still a superior delivery method over sugar.

To date, sugar is added as a means to alter the flavour profile of the raw ingredient. Now, many producers are well into their exploration of bourbon flavoured syrup. Some, like me, have wondered aloud why age it in a barrel if the regulations allow us to sell product that could contain up to 2% alcohol; without having to get certified as a producer/distributer of alcohol. See where this is headed?

Soak source THC in bourbon. Titrate with maple syrup to just under 2%. Probably not going to get the urban hippy as a customer, but the urban hipster is a shoe in.

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As I said...huge market here. As for combining THC with sugar, I would encourage you to take a trip to CO, WA, or OR to see the variety of products that are available that do just that.

Radio Silence.

"Binders" are useful in this process.....l

Radio Silence.

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THC can be infused into sugar... it's more difficult to do than other methods, but it can be done with good flavor. it would be tricky to do it with maple sugar and keep the maple flavor... but it probably can be done. the quick version... cook/dry out and grind up the weed, put it in alcohol, stir in the sugar, let it set for a while, strain out the weed, then let the water/booze evaporate leaving you with THC infused sugar... that's the gist of it.
Generally it has to attach to fats... butter or dairy products, oils etc... then that "fat" is used in the cooking process to infuse the THC fat into whatever your cooking. oil being the easiest way to mask the weed taste. with all the states starting to legalize... it could be something to try.