Those roof jacks ar pretty sweet aren't they, Gary.
Printable View
Those roof jacks ar pretty sweet aren't they, Gary.
Yes it is going to fit well over the ribs of the metal roof. I was able to get it for $135.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdiamond
Once I get the base stack base and base stack, and stand them up, I will see where the double wall pipe will line up and I will make a support for it. I will then lower the double wall pipe into position and make a mark on it showing the roof line and as mentioned before I then remove it, slide the roof jack down onto the double wall pipe to almost the line, then lower both and connect the double,wall pipe to the base stack, secure it to the supports, then add my butyl tape to the perimeter of the roof Jack under the metal strips, push the roof Jack all the way down to the roof and secure it with metal roofing screws, then add the roof sealant.
Other than putting the pan in place with the float box, I will be ready to boil.
Today was +1° and the sap was running a little in my early taps. 3 of the next four days will be possible sap flow days, with Tuesday maybe being the best day.
We are still 3/4 weeks away from the sap really flowing and installing the majority of the taps. I may get enough sap to make a litre or so of syrup this week.
We snowshoed the lines on the steep hill today. The narrow tracks are getting a solid base, but constantly have to be trekked with snow or blowing snow almost each day.
My butyl tape arrived today from Amazon. Tomorrow prior to heading out to pick up my pan, I will stop and get the roof sealant. I am very excited to head out tomorrow to get the pan. It is 6’30” drive there and back in good conditions. I have a lot of questions for the pan maker when I get there about the pan and especially the float box.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/083C...9qa67WbtM2FnzA
https://share.icloud.com/photos/07d_...2eXMpSRrTytgFg
Attachment 22830
It was a 6.5 hour return trip, but I picked up my 2x4 divided pan, float box, pan cover, base stack, base stack plate and 2 foot section of stainless 8” stove pipe today. It all looks great.
The base stack plate will have to be welded onto my existing metal rectangle frame that the pan sits on. It might take a few days for my welder to get to it and I can’t really do a lot with setting up the base stack until it is done, but I can do a few things.
To reverse the flow in this pan, you reverse the positions of the draw off valve and the float box. I wasn’t really set up that way, but I have time to make it so that I can.
I am very happy and in a few days or a week, I will be all set up to go. The second last picture is a photoshop of the base plate at the end of the metal frame. I will get the welder to run a bead across the entire width of the base plate, then weld two small plates at the ends over both pieces for extra strength.
Attachment 22834
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0411...uQaYqkn5ZH5xAQ
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0c7R...0dFxrWemO_aTFg
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0cbD...UiJezbyuXlwquQ
https://share.icloud.com/photos/077Z...FlgWgun-FlNk7A
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0b2V...smOauMR2QHlNrg
https://share.icloud.com/photos/004r...u4ExMEiePV1-Hw
https://share.icloud.com/photos/03co...5JbJdW9PDDpjIg
https://share.icloud.com/photos/08dt...xCfBpD6ei2WY2A
Pan looks like it was worth the wait. Can't wait to see steam rising from it!
Looking good Gary. Won't your first boil be fun. Your moving pretty fast for a second year sapper. Looks like you moved up from this being a hobby to an obsession. I realized that this year when I plunked down $800 for a filter press.
Equipment looks very well made, trusts it serves you well for many many years.
Stay safe on the roof work and get some help even if they only do the fetching on the ground.
Looking forward to see pic's of the whole sugar pavilion making steam.
Best of luck.
Looks great! Is it normal that a base stack doesn't have a flange to use to attach it? I don't have a base stack, just curious.
One thought - if there's a way to attach your base stack to the arch with screws or something, I wonder if that might be better, so you can re-use it if you wind up buying an evaporator next season or the one after. That stack will last forever, and it would be a shame to have to chop it up to move it to a new arch.
GO
Thanks, I can’t wait to see it all set up and working as well. I will have a big smile when the steam starts rising.Quote:
Originally Posted by Z/MAN
When I started thinking about tapping two summers ago, it was going to be 16 taps, with an unknown way of boiling, but my personality trait of wanting to do the best I can, with a dash of obsessiveness has got me here. Hopefully I will be content with what I have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorWoodchuck
Thanks I have a buddy up for a couple of days, I am hoping we can get the hole cut in the roof while he is up, although today is a wash with driving snow, freezing rain, and rain. It is supposed to get to +4 C / 40 F so I should get some sap running in my early taps. It is more likely this sap will be boiled on a turkey fryer though. Thanks for the good luck wishes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trends
Thanks! I do have a base stack plate with a flange for the base stack, it may not have been obvious in the earlier pictures. I was working on it this morning as I had to cut and ground a portion of it to fit the inside width of the evaporator.Quote:
Originally Posted by berkshires
The basestack and pan will fit my pan makers evaporators, if money magically appeared to allow me to buy a professional evaporator.
Attachment 22840
https://share.icloud.com/photos/03eo...kVEpO9cVteZ3jw
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0ddk...rvmEh4vW3x_Rnw
Speaking yesterday with my pan maker, he suggested I start with 3” sap depth until I get comfortable with the divided pan and learn how quickly things can happen when they do.
I also asked about the draw off and I said I was going to trickle the syrup out. He told me that is a good method when you have a really large evaporator, but for the 2x4 pan he made for me, he said you want to open the valve and let it flow out. He also said, that let’s say 220° was my target temperature, that once I open the valve, the temperature may rise to 221°, but the instant it starts to drop, close the valve.
He also said if the sugar sand builds up, that the pan could burn between the bottom of the pan and the sugar sand, so not to let the sugar sand build up.
The way this pan is designed to reverse the flow was different than I thought. In this case, you switch the float box with the outlet valve. Right now my feed tank is on a raised stand that I screwed into place. I have three options. Get a longer RVk hose and string it over the pan to reach the other side, build a second raised stand on the other side, or unscrew the existing raised stand and just move it each time, but there may not be a good spot for it. First world problems, I will figure it out.
Now in simply flipping the float box and valve around, you have your gradient in the wrong place, so I see draining some of the sweet into pails and then pour it back in, in reverse order on the opposite side, to try and reestablish the gradient.
The weather improved a little bit, so my buddy and I were able to cut a hole in the roof today in the correct place and got a number of other things ready.
My neighbour was kind enough to weld the base stack base to the pan frame this evening. He is not a professional welder like my usual guy, but he did a good job and it is solid and should resist twisting.
Tomorrow we should be able to finish the base stack and stack and roof jack and then basically I will then be ready to boil.
Last year I had five test boils using water with the steam pans and last year’s version of my cinder block evaporator. I am debating have a test boil with this one and the new pan, but for some reason I am a little apprehensive doing it with the new pan.
I look forward tomorrow having a picture of the evaporator with the base stack and the new pan, however temporary the new pan will be there.
It's okay, it only gets better as the years go by and you spend just a little more money. But remember, "it's only a hobby, honey really it'll be fun. Just think of all the syrup we can make."
Gary, I highly recommend you do a test boil with water. You are not only testing the pan, but you will be testing the arch, stack and everything else. Making sure you have no leaks in your connections for your head tank to the float box and that the float box is functioning.
I vote for a test boil too. Better to iron out the kinks with water then with sap.
Sold, I will do a test boil next week when the weather warms up again and I can run my hose to add water to the pan and head tank.
The next two days will be above zero, but tomorrow is work day on the base stack and Thursday we have a ton of rain coming.
Next week will have four days above freezing, it would be nice to boil some of that in the new pan, but I will not go all in on my taps until I see what the weather will be from Feb 20/25.
Today we were above zero, but little sap ran. Tomorrow Saptapapps predicts a better flow. Next week more flow is expected. I am keenly aware that I am now 6 weeks since I tapped my early taps and there is a chance they are starting to close. I really won’t know until I tap my other lines and compare the flows.
I also vote for a test boil with water, and run it for a couple of hours. You have a lot to learn and the test boil will teach you a lot. And make sure you have an "Oh ****" bucket filled and ready. (Just in case). I am not afraid to admit I have needed mine more than once.
Today we got the basestack and stack all hooked up and I placed the new pan on the evaporator. I am happy how it will worked out and it sure looks different from last year’s cinder block evaporator.
https://youtu.be/aOxWVi6rPJk
https://youtu.be/L4oaXi4_D0c
The base stack, with the double wall pipe section and top pipe all went on basically as planned. I am sure glad my buddy, who is okay with being on roofs and has a lot of skill was with me, and we overcame any challenges.
The high temp silicone roof jack worked well. Thanks Pdiamond for recommending it. I am glad I watched you tube videos on how to install it and I had butyl tape for the edges, special roofing clear caulking, and the sheet metal screws for securing it tightly down. The roof jack was a tight fit and my buddy had to work hard to slide it down, in temperatures right around freezing.
The hardest thing was to get the double wall pipe onto the 8” base stack, but we got it.
We are going to have a lot of rain tomorrow, so we will see how good of a job we did.
I do not have a rain cap for the pipe as per the advice of my pan maker, but I did put a 5 gallon pail on it while it sits idle.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/09fp...mHzHIusIcVgFZg
https://share.icloud.com/photos/03bC...puKTRoO9Gmvj3A
https://share.icloud.com/photos/05au...tDRVqB-uxTEimg
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0b8L..._EuEf1XL_HrQ7w
Attachment 22848
Beautiful job on the videos Gary. Gotta love Canadian Tire.
I put the divided pan in place today. It is always interesting setting it up for the first time and discovering challenges. The clamps that are used to attached the drawoff pipe and float box, actually fit slightly below the base of the pan. It actually slightly raised the front of the pan and did not make it level. I had planned on having ceramic blanket strips under the pan, so I added the strips and that was more than enough for the clamps not to touch and the pan is now level.
I also discovered the back of the float box was a little further away than expected, so the rv hose I had purchased for that task was now a little short.
I also found that the drawoff valve did not extend past the concrete blocks.
I was going to do a test boil today, but especially because, I did not have the proper length feed hose, I will do it next week when the weather warms again. I am ordering a longer hose and a 6” piece of stainless pipe with 3/4” NPT.
Attachment 22847
https://share.icloud.com/photos/016i...qoHOn37XeB16tw
https://share.icloud.com/photos/044E...ug9wO0sP2EgPaw
Gary, that sure is an impressive setup you have there. You are going to really enjoy making some great syrup on that rig! It has been enjoyable riding along with you on your adventure. We all get bitten by this Maple Bug and get crazy involved with it but you are infected like nobody I have ever seen. I hope you have a great season and I look forward to seeing where you go from here, I know you will keep improving. (PS, how are you explaining this way over budget disease to your wife?)
Gary, I must say I was starting to panic about you getting your pan and stack in time! Whew!
We would have all cried over you missing your season after all this prep.
Can't wait to see it run!
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Z/MAN
My wife is mostly looking the other way, sort of don’t ask, don’t tell sort of arrangement, but puppy dog eyes helps. I don’t think I will be able justify a really large investment like a professional evaporator. I am pretty well done with major investments. I will have to get really good with what I have. Lots to learn with this divided pan.
I think there are advantage with all pans, including steam pans right through to flue pans. But I am understanding more and more, the key whether you have 10 taps or 1000 taps, is how many gallons can you boil in an hour.
Same...I was starting to feel bad it wouldn't show up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy VT
Great job Gary. Nice set up. Glad everything is coming together in the nick of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigschuss
ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Andy VT
I have to admit I was getting concerned as well, but the pan maker had promised I would get it in time and he did live up to the promise, although it was closer timing than I originally hoped. I had not sold my steam pans yet and had not discarded the concrete block I made with the 6” stove pipe embedded in it, so if push had come to shove, I would have reconfigure my evaporator and I would have had to buy some 6” stove pipe as I had already sold the pipe I had used last year.
If the heavy rain forecasted today ends early enough this afternoon, I will try a test boil and will take a video of it. I went to town early today and purchased the stainless steel pipe extension for the draw off and I have ordered the right length hose, but it will not arrived until tomorrow, so I will just use a longer hose that I have.
Although today’s weather was disappointing in a number of ways, there is always something to be thankful for. The roof jack seal around the new stack pipe did not leak at all, so I guess we did a good job.
I am especially thankful for my buddy who came up for a couple of days to help me, prior to him leaving for Mexico and he did a lot of the work, with me being his grunt. It would have been very difficult for me to get the double wall pipe onto the base stack by myself. It was not a perfect match and it took two of us to get it to fit properly. He was also the guy on the roof and did all of the work on the roof. He certainly earned a few litres of maple syrup. We help each other all of the time with projects and I was very grateful for his help with this one.
The proper length hose for the feed tank will arrive tomorrow via Amazon. I may boil to a concentrate what little sap I have collected over the last couple of days. It will not take long.
I look forward to the test boil hopefully on Sunday, and if successful, then it will be waiting for 2/3 weeks to start tapping. I will tap on March 1st, if not a little before.
Sugar Moon is March 7.
Today after going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, weighing the pros and cons, I decided to start tapping. I am not sure if it was the right decision. I have the feeling in my gut that it is a risky decision.
My logical side of me said to wait until March like every other year, tried and true advice and the smart thing to do. Another side of me saw the 7 days of flow in the next 10 days.
Ultimately two things came to mind, this winter has been different than most other winters since 2012. Winter came late and has not been severe. The ice on our lake is poor and is much thinner than normal. We have had several warm spells, including one that allowed me to tap during the Christmas break and I doubt that has happen in Northern Ontario too often. There is no guarantee that’s the Spring will an easy one or an early one, but being a different winter there is a chance that March will be a very good month. There is also a chance Spring could warm up quickly and the start of April could be too warm to tap.
The second thing if I am wrong, no one dies and if I end up with less sap, I will still have a lot of potential sap to make syrup, hence the advantage of tapping a lot of trees.
There is no doubt there is a side of me that thinks I made a wrong decision. Hopefully the old sayings “Fortune favours the bold” and “the early bird gets the worm” apply. There are other sayings that are not so supportive.
I had 40 taps that I tapped during the Christmas break. I am not sure how well they will flow going forward. I certainly have not remotely come close to the 400 gallons of sap they theoretically could have produced. Hopefully there is more sap to flow out of them.
Today I tapped 57 taps right close to my house. Tomorrow and possibly Sunday morning, I will tap the remaining 74 taps on the steep hill. I am still open to someone saying you are crazy and hold off on the 74 taps on the steep hill and save them until March.
There is no expectation for sap flow until Sunday.
On Sunday I will do my test boil with water and maybe Monday or Tuesday I will be boiling sap.
I still have that feeling in my gut when I have made a decision I am not 100% sure of.
Attachment 22860
https://share.icloud.com/photos/095U...0LwF6cxKUqNVjQ
Other weather forecasters have a more optimistic forecast.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0f9j...zrsVZe4FpceNrw
This morning at 6 am, walking from the washroom to the bedroom, to go back to sleep, I all of a sudden said to myself, “it is the middle of February, are you crazy”? In that lucid moment I decided not to tap the 74 taps on the steep hill as planned today. Almost immediately the instinctive bad feeling in my gut went away.
The two good things about the decision, is that the 57 taps I did yesterday, plus the 40 older taps, should give me enough sap, to break me into my new setup, without overwhelming me. None of them last year lines produced any daily high volumes, so although there is a potential 97 taps, I think I will be lucky to get 50 gallons from them on a good day. (Last year was a poor year for flow, so maybe I will be surprised.)
The second good thing is I hedge my bets and the 74 taps on the steep hill, which I expect will be my best producers, won’t be tapped until ideal conditions, and I should still get a good amount of sap from just them, to make it a good season. When they come on line, I will be more experienced.
Now to focus on the test boil with water on Sunday, and who knows I might be boiling sap come Monday or Tuesday.
I am not sure if this falls under the category of another whiplash post.
I am still feeling great about not tapping the 74 taps on the steep hill.
The one good thing is I am always interested in learning, and this year I will have taps from Christmas, taps from February and taps likely from March the usual time. I will learn how tapping at each of the times affects sap volumes and it will guide me in the future. I am sure they are lessons already learned, but they will be valuable to me all the same.
Today I am boiling the sap I got from the Christmas taps. There was only about 5 gallons to boil, but I did not want it to go bad.
I also did tap 6 trees in my yard. Now all of the trees around my house that I had planned on tapping are tapped. Last season these trees produced very poorly and I am not sure why. We will see how they will do this year. These 6 trees are mostly tapped for any visitors to see and check out as opposed to truly adding sap volumes. Anything they will add, is bonus.
I updated my sap spreadsheet so that it is ready for this coming week.
I am excited about tomorrow’s test boil and some sap should also run tomorrow.
While I was boiling the sap on the induction stoves, I had two friends and their two family members drop by. I gave them a tour and they were very interested in everything. They hung around for about 45 minutes. In the end I gave them one of my five last bottles of syrup from last year, so they can taste it tomorrow morning at breakfast. One of the people is interested in buying some from me.
It’s funny most of my friends around here I have heard the stories about making maple syrup many times and their eyes roll when someone new asks a question about maple syrup when they are around. It is sort of like on the Big Bang Theory, when someone asks Sheldon a question and the three guys all moan, because they know a lengthy response is coming.
Don't worry about the whiplash, just keep doing you. It occurred to me there could be a possibility you could edit your posts thus far into a book on maple sugaring adventures. Whether doing some early taps is a good idea or not, I'm not sure, but I do feel sure that if you do tap early, saving some for later as a hedge is a good idea.
I did my test boil today and I am just waiting for everything to cool down now.
A lot of good things happened, a lot of things went right, a few easily fixable things to fix. But I had three issues, one is just inconvenient, one should be fixable and the last one is pretty concerning.
It took me about a half hour from starting the fire until I had a decent boil. When it did boil I had a good boil the full length of three of the channels, which I was pleased with. I now know I need at least 10 gallons of sap in my feed tank when I decide to shut down. The whole setup was virtually smoke free until I added air. The exhaust from the stack was virtually clear.
Now for the three things.
The inconvenient : The upper frame of the entrance to my firebox hangs down a little too much and I have to put the wood in at an upper angle to fill it to the top. I can either fix it or live with it.
The fixable: the two couplers going from the float box to the pan both leaked. I suspect I did not fit the gaskets perfectly and I will have to make sure they are perfect next time.
The pretty concerning. The metal frame that the pan sits on started warping in the front right corner. The frame has a lip that goes down 3” into the fire box that helps hold the firebricks in place and is also welded to my base stack plate.
I do not know how to fix this yet. If it stays where it is I could live with it although not ideal, but if it warps more, which it likely will, it could be a deal breaker.
I typed all this without my glasses on my phone, so sorry if there are errors.
Oh one other thing, when I add air it is like there is not enough exit room for the air to leave the evaporator and smoke and flames want to come out the front:
https://youtu.be/97ZB6Cg_8e8
Edit, now that the firebox has cooled down, the metal frame has come back down.
Would there be a way to put insulation down the front face of the angle so it's heat exposure is reduced and keep it from warping?
I could try that, do you think a ceramic blanket hanging over the edge an inch or so past the metal, would work?Quote:
Originally Posted by aamyotte
Funny that the metal came right back in place after it cooled down.
I was also considering welding more steel on the frame, outside of the pan to try and strengthen it. In the red box area in the attached picture.
Attachment 22865
https://share.icloud.com/photos/073Z...L63qbzpn0gRWbw
If you still want to use the blower and the metal warps again, seal that gap with some insulation. That should help mitigate the smoke coming out the front,
That could work. It all depends on how much heat it took for the steel to warp. Time to expirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingpure
I have ordered a ceramic blanket, it should arrive Tuesday. I will see if I can tuck it under the bracket between the bracket and the fire brick and then up and around the top.
I reconnected the couplers on the float box, there was one gasket obviously out of place. Hopefully both now with be sap tight.
My plastic head tank stores fluid in the legs and I was a little worried about it all coming out, but I did some rednecking snd it work great, it drained all of the water out.
I think my boil rate was 11 gal per hour, maybe a hair better.
I really liked how little smoke the whole setup had. Almost none, big difference from last year.
I mentioned before I liked how it boiled hard the whole length of the channels, last year with my five steam pans, it was hard to get the last two pans to boil.
what is the purpose of the steel plate a round under the pan ? why not remove steel plate and just place your insulation on the cinder block. it will provide a seal just as well as if the pan was setting on the steel plate. now the problem has been removed.
I originally added the steel plate for two reasons, one to give support across the ends of the pans, and two to help hold the top of the firebricks, hence using angle iron.Quote:
Originally Posted by nhdog
As things turned out when my base stack plate was made, it was made differently than I expected and he built it so that it had to be welded to the metal frame, which I did. This now limits options and some of the angle iron will have to remain.
The other thing that surprised me that instead of having a threaded pipe coming out of the pans for the float box and draw off valve, he uses “collars”, which I had never heard off. The collars can work great if you attach them correctly however the bottom of the collar is lower than the pan, so the pan has to be raised. Raised even more than the 1/4” plate and the 2” thick ceramic blanket strip that the pan sat on provided enough space, so that the collar did not touch the concrete blocks.
I had hoped I had a little space between the iron and the fire bricks, so I could snug the ceramic blanket under it, but I designed it to be tight snd it was. Tomorrow I get the ceramic blanket, but I am not optimistic that it will hang in such a fashion to provide protection. If the ceramic blanket is delivered in time, I will do another test boil tomorrow.
Last test, one side of the frame near the door started to rise. I think ironically the other end did not rise because I had a leak at the couplers and I think that kept the bar from getting too hot.
If the insulation blanket does not work, the only thing I can think of is to cut the angle iron back to the ramp area. I cannot remove it all as it is attached to the base stack plate. I will still need to add an iron bar on top of the blocks to act as a spacer to protect the couplers.
If during tomorrows boil test, the iron does start to warp, obviously it a serious problem that has to be resolved. Cutting it and removing it is a big step. The main implication will be that nothing will be holding the top firebricks in place and loading firewood could displace them. I may have to find a way for the top bar to press down on them somehow.
I never ever thought that the strong 1/4” angle iron would warp with only being down two inches in the firebox, but I am learning that any steel in the firebox is a problem.
I have to say this has been a bit of a downer as it jeopardizes my season, but I will find a way to make it work. The good thing is I have time to find solutions as our real season is two or three weeks away.
I don’t know if it is too late to use masonry cement to try and hold the fire bricks in place. There are no gaps currently between the firebricks and mam not sure if it is warm enough for it properly set.
First things first, will see how we do on the boil test tomorrow or Wednesday.