Big govt coming your way [Archive]

DrTimPerkins

11-30-2010, 08:44 PM

Looks to me like the bill just passed the senate but has to be approved by a Republican majority house to be law right? The Republicans are small government they wont allow anything like that on their watch. Theron

That is correct, it passed the Senate today. However you forget that the Democrats still control the House until January. If they vote on the Senate version without modification (which would require it to go back to the Senate), my guess is that it will easily pass the House and be signed by the President before the Holiday recess.

It passed by a fairly sizeable majority in the Senate. Last time there was a food safety act on this scale was 1938. The Federal Government had no authority to issue food safety recalls....they could only badger companies into "voluntarily" doing it.

I haven't read much about the final bill as passed (and won't until I see how it fares in the House). No need getting too worked up about it until we know the details. The Feds have a lot more to worry about in other food areas than maple syrup.

Monster Maples

11-30-2010, 09:20 PM

WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER

11-30-2010, 09:57 PM

The time is coming at least for younger producers when we won't be able to make syrup like we do now. To me, not that big of a deal as I don't depend on the income and could just go to a hobby and make a few gallons but not that way for many others. If you think syrup is expensive now, just wait until we get 20 more years of regulations.

gmcooper

11-30-2010, 11:00 PM

Well if all of the original parts are passed we might be better off going underground and start "runnin" syrup at night. I can see it now 4 wheel drives, flat black paint jobs, secret compartments, outrunning the "Feds" all night. Demand might go up and maybe the price too!
Or we could spend the off season filling out more paperwork, reading more rules, and paying for another license!

Bucket Head

11-30-2010, 11:47 PM

"Runnin' at night"? I'm ready! Well, almost ready. I have a four wheel drive with a "not so shiny anymore" black paint job. I can weld up some secret compartments. It has a 460c.i. under the hood, so it will out run everything but a gas station. I have no problem steering with the rear wheels- Dukes Of Hazzard style cornering. Let's go, bring em' on!

Seriously, I don't like the idea of more government in my syrup than the next guy. I don't like it at all. However, I've said for years that sooner or later, we would have more rules to follow wether we liked them or not. Hopefully were worrying about this prematurely and it won't be the "sooner" version of requirements. Don't get me wrong, a certain amount of requirements and safegaurds should be enforced, we are making food after all, but permits and licenses that will surely cost many dollars are not needed. That will hurt the industry in the long run.

Steve

Haynes Forest Products

12-01-2010, 02:09 AM

allgreenmaple

12-01-2010, 06:54 AM

I dont mind the $100.00 licence fee. Its not Like getting a permit to paint your house. I felt like I did get a service the inspector did come out spend 2 hrs inspected and gave constructive instructions so I could make a SAFER PRODUCT. I think what will kill the little guy is the endless buracratic paperwork. This year with the need for a licence to wholesale it already set in motion a black market way of doing things. There will be a subset to the wholesaler guys will CO-OP their syrup to someone that has a licence and it will get to market that way. Just like bootleg pills from China end up in Walgreens. The more the government tries to control a product or outcome the more it adds to the problem IF THERE IS A PROBLEM:mad: beaucracy will be a big problem. You say $100.00 is not a big deal, that may just be a starting point. I used to pay a $100.00 fee for my businesses pesticide license, as I am a NYS licensed applicator. Licensing is now $200.00 a year, plus a $300.00 business license. Once they go down this road, it will never end, it will be milked as a cash cow that the government sees it, mark my words.

red maples

12-01-2010, 07:24 AM

The good thing about this bill it's intent is go after big factory farms. which I honestly don't mind that much. I don't like big factory farms anyway but with our demand as "a need to have it now nation" well 1938 regs are a little outdated. There is alot of amunition for change. The food bourne illness numbers are really staggering and many of the problems start at the farms of the big factory farms.

The short fall in this bill is that it still doesn't have a defined tier system based on how much you produce and how those numbers will directly impact the little guy.I don't mind paying a few $ to sell my 40 gallons of syrup and candy and stuff but if I have to pay $100 and the guy who makes 1000 gallons has to pay $100 then there is something wrong. Whole sale is a very broad spectum in my opinion. If your selling 5 gallons of mersh you made at the end of the season or selling 20,000 tons of corn, to 100,000 tons of wheat or eggs or meat or what ever. thats the scary part there isn't enough in there yet to separate the little guy from the big guy. It might never effect us as maple producers "NOW" but that doesn't mean it can't be amended in the future. Regulations I can deal with to a point it is a bit of protection we all need, but whe the hammer comes down too swift and too hard thats another thing!!!

Goggleeye

12-01-2010, 12:42 PM

Brad - you're right, the big factory farms are the problem. But yet I would be willing to bet that they are not too concerned about this legislation.
My question would be, is this something factory farms actually want because they know this will ultimately destroy the little guy. We know the factory farms have plenty of political pull, and this new legislation will be a mere inconvenience to them and a death blow to the little guys who are putting a bigger and bigger dent in their pocketbooks as more people move towards local, small farmer products. I'd say they are more than willing to take a 1% penalty in order to eventually kill any competition and make a 5% gain.
We sell raw goat's milk, and it's really bad in the dairy industry. You see the big dairy producers themselves pushing for more regulation, testing, etc, all of which is designed to shut down the small producer in a mass of expensive red tape. They could care less about food safety, they just want a bigger profit margin for themselves. The idea that small farmers will be protected is absurd.
The cover of "food safety" is just another excuse to tax us more and funnel more business to the corporate "farms" that have the means to influence legislation.

Dennis H.

12-01-2010, 07:32 PM

I'm not sure how this will effect me but if I had to pay $100 for a license that would be equal to about 30% of my sales and that doesn't take into account all my expenses for equipment and supplies.

I agree that for the big farms this is nothing more than tax for them. But for the small guys it is a major expense.

SO what exactly is this bill all about? What are they trying to do with this bill anyway?

smitty76

12-01-2010, 08:17 PM

Im not surprised. Obama is taxing everthing to pay for his big spending and is covering it with times are tough. It won't be long and we will be taxed for growing a garden. However, I am not to concerned about it because it will take them a long time to figuire out were and who we are. Some of you have already mentioned the black market. That will work good for me. I sell most of my product to friends, family and locals out of my home. do not sell any bulk. altimately, we will have to see if this passes and just what criteria it has and how it affects us.

3rdgen.maple

12-01-2010, 09:39 PM

Got a laugh out of this so I thought I would share.
Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel , "Pick up your shovels, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead you to the Promised Land."

Nearly 75 years ago, (when Welfare was introduced) Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, and light up a Camel, this is the Promised Land."

Today, Obama has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of camels and mortgaged the Promised Land!

allgreenmaple

12-02-2010, 05:41 AM

markcasper

12-02-2010, 07:39 AM

This bills ultimate goal is to shut down small farms and ranches. The big multinational corporates wrote the stinking thing with Monsanto being the biggest pusher.
http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2010/08/us-senate-bill-s510-allows-raiding-your.html

red maples

12-02-2010, 08:21 AM

and monsanto is run by who??? gov. officials who want more money and more control!!!!

markcasper

12-02-2010, 02:42 PM

There seems to be a revolving door between Monsanto and the FDA. The same thing between wall street/banking and Washington.

PATheron

12-02-2010, 05:28 PM

In this country it is perfectly legal to buy politicians so whoever has the most money makes the rules and runs the country. Theron

collinsmapleman2012

12-02-2010, 07:56 PM

i can see it now... were gonna be bootlegging syrup and selling it to undercover pancake houses lol it will be like how NASCAR got its start lol

sugarmountain

12-02-2010, 08:36 PM

sounds like a good time to me! rumor has it a few of the boys north of the border allready do that when they produce more than there quota?-dudley

Uncle Tucker

12-02-2010, 11:44 PM

We all say big government is to blame, lets be real, it’s LOBBYIST, BIG BUSINESS that push legislators to make licenses and fees that the small guys cant\wont pay. The big companies can absorb these, fees/taxes and chalk it up to the cost of doing business, and the small ones cant. This pushes the little guy out of business witch helps big business by removing computation. The men and women in congress don’t know any thing about maple, what they do know is money gets them reelected. If some one says the maple industry needs to be regulated and donates to there campaign, maple will be regulated.
The thing that would scares me is the packers deciding that any retail syrup would need to be “certified” or “inspected” to be sold in stores. They could convince ($) congress that it would be safer to the public to certify retail syrup as “safe”. That would take all farmers markets, farm stand and small retail (competition) out of the game. The packers are the ones who set the price per pound and with no retail competition, I don’t think the price would stay the same.
Personally, I have no problem with inspections as long as they don’t cost my customers or me any money. I make a quality product and feel I would pass any inspection. This would clean up the people that cut corners and make an inferior product. The thing I don’t want to see is any fees, taxes or price fixing. As far as inspections, I have no problem with a second option to make sure my product is eatable and safe. It would be embarrassing if some thing was incorrect but I don’t want people getting sick because something I did wrong.
Just my 2 cense.

Haynes Forest Products

12-03-2010, 09:20 AM

I think this thread has morphed into its the little guy against the big guy /government. Elections have consequences and when people are put into positions of authority Like FOOD CZARs this is what you get. Its the mentality that "IF IT SAVES ONLY ONE LIFE ISNT IT WORTH IT" mentality. I say HELL NO its not worth it. Yes its special interests that get the ball rolling and then staffers run with in in the name of their bosses the people we elect.

I think the small guy gets caught up or dragged into the big picture. Its collateral damage and the FAT CATs dont see it or care. Just wait till a "FEEL GOOD" story is run on 60 Minutes about how the poor guy in Vermont is being put out of buisness then things will change. I dont think for a second that "BIG EVIL PACKERS" want this. Just see what would happen to the availability and price of syrup if all the small guys were shut out of selling their product to the wholesalers. Bascoms doesnt want all the little guys shut out from bringing small amounts to their dock. Its not like they will have the right to tap your trees or plant 10,000,000 trees in Iowa and start big evil Corporate farms

mike z

12-03-2010, 01:35 PM

I would consider my operation very small at 100 taps. I was just in the process of growing to maybe 200, and then ... Regulations will cause me to pause and rethink it all. It would be nice to have some xtra $ to help pay for this hobby. On the flip side, I have seen quart, motor oil bottles hanging from trees with the owner selling his product.

twofer

12-03-2010, 01:54 PM

On the flip side, I have seen quart, motor oil bottles hanging from trees with the owner selling his product.

This is why IMO we are digging our own holes from not self policing our own ranks. Maple syrup is a food product, plain and simple, and if we are not using food grade equipment because we're trying to save a bit of money we are a penny wise and a pound foolish. If the public gets wind of more and more practices like was described above you're going to start seeing heavy handed inspections and regulations come raining down on us like a thunderstorm in the sugarbush.

smitty76

12-03-2010, 06:09 PM

If the public gets wind of more and more practices like was described above you're going to start seeing heavy handed inspections and regulations come raining down on us like a thunderstorm in the sugarbush.

Twofer is right, but it is hard to convince everyone.It is this kind of stuff that is going create mandated regulations that will be hard for small operations to afford. I recall post's from the past that have talked about this very thing. It is up to us, one and all, to make sure that we are doing the right thing (not useing oil jugs) especially wide open for the public to see. I do not know how many of you have ever been to see how dairies run, most would never drink milk again, however, it is then pasturized some thing like syrup (boiled) and is ok. We need to be honest with ourselfs and to those with which we sell to that our products are safe. When in dout, check it out.

firetech

12-03-2010, 07:30 PM

In Michigan this past summer we were given the cottage food bill to work with, yippy!!!!! In theory you can make maple syrup and sell it to stores,restrants,schools and farm markets all without a licsence or any inspections of facilties, as long as you only sell $15k or less. Now how does this fit in with the food safty bill??? We are cutting state bugets,federal bugets who's going to inspect this stuff any way. It's all just more reteric without any funding. I'm not going to get my shorts in a bunch over this because it is uninforcable anyway.

Goggleeye

12-03-2010, 07:51 PM

Everybody here ought to take a read of this article
http://www.naturalnews.com/030576_Food_Safety_S_510.html
and then contact their senators and reps ASAP before we are classified as criminals.

This article answers several questions some of you were asking.

Although stripped from the bill last minute, they wanted to put me in prison for 10 years for selling raw goats milk. How long before they require the pasteurization of breast milk? That might happen anyway when the wife is fueling the evaporator when I'm at work:o (Sap hauler #4 due Jan 20)

And yet another example of our beloved Monsanto
http://action.freshthemovie.com/p/dia/action/public/index.sjs?action_KEY=4856

smitty76

12-04-2010, 08:36 AM

it will take them years to figure out how and who to inforce new regs. I am also not too fired up about it

mike z

12-04-2010, 11:35 AM

GOOGLEEYE - You're making me laugh. Good job.

Tim Wagoner

12-04-2010, 05:07 PM

Here is a little on the bill S510 the good thing is any bill that is to produce revenue for the Gov must originate in the house not in the senate so it may be stopped. But we must wait and see if they try and figure a way around that. Which if they did it would be in yet another way unconditional. We are in bad times when stuff like this is allowed to pass. Now is the time to be concerned about this. This may be the last time we have a chance to stop it. This is when each person needs to stand up and let it be known to your elected officials how you feel and remind them that they work for you, and not the other way around. To sit and wait and then react is why this country is in the shape it is in now. Guess that is my two cents worth so anyway here is a little stuff I have found.
enjoy
1. It puts all US food and all US farms under Homeland Security and the Department of Defense, in the event of contamination or an ill-defined emergency. It resembles the Kissinger Plan.
2. It would end US sovereignty over its own food supply by insisting on compliance with the WTO, thus threatening national security. It would end the Uruguay Round Agreement Act of 1994, which put US sovereignty and US law under perfect protection. Instead, S 510 says:
COMPLIANCE WITH INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS.
Nothing in this Act (or an amendment made by this Act) shall be construed in a manner inconsistent with the agreement establishing the World Trade Organization or any other treaty or international agreement to which the United States is a party.
3. It would allow the government, under Maritime Law, to define the introduction of any food into commerce (even direct sales between individuals) as smuggling into “the United States.” Since under that law, the US is a corporate entity and not a location, “entry of food into the US” covers food produced anywhere within the land mass of this country and “entering into” it by virtue of being produced.
4. It imposes Codex Alimentarius on the US, a global system of control over food. It allows the United Nations (UN), World Health Organization (WHO), UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), and the WTO to take control of every food on earth and remove access to natural food supplements. Its bizarre history and its expected impact in limiting access to adequate nutrition (while mandating GM food, GM animals, pesticides, hormones, irradiation of food, etc.) threatens all safe and organic food and health itself, since the world knows now it needs vitamins to survive, not just to treat illnesses.
5. It would remove the right to clean, store and thus own seed in the US, putting control of seeds in the hands of Monsanto and other multinationals, threatening US security. See Seeds – How to criminalize them, for more details.
6. It includes NAIS, an animal traceability program that threatens all small farmers and ranchers raising animals. The UN is participating through the WHO, FAO, WTO, and World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE) in allowing mass slaughter of even heritage breeds of animals and without proof of disease. Biodiversity in farm animals is being wiped out to substitute genetically engineered animals on which corporations hold patents. Animal diseases can be falsely declared. S 510 includes the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), despite its corrupt involvement in the H1N1 scandal, which is now said to have been concocted by the corporations.
Fresh food that lasts from eFoods Direct (Ad)
7. It extends a failed and destructive HACCP to all food, thus threatening to do to all local food production and farming what HACCP did to meat production – put it in corporate hands and worsen food safety.
8. It deconstructs what is left of the American economy. It takes agriculture and food, which are the cornerstone of all economies, out of the hands of the citizenry, and puts them under the total control of multinational corporations influencing the UN, WHO, FAO and WTO, with HHS, and CDC, acting as agents, with Homeland Security as the enforcer. The chance to rebuild the economy based on farming, ranching, gardens, food production, natural health, and all the jobs, tools and connected occupations would be eliminated.
9. It would allow the government to mandate antibiotics, hormones, slaughterhouse waste, pesticides and GMOs. This would industrialize every farm in the US, eliminate local organic farming, greatly increase global warming from increased use of oil-based products and long-distance delivery of foods, and make food even more unsafe. The five items listed — the Five Pillars of Food Safety — are precisely the items in the food supply which are the primary source of its danger.
10. It uses food crimes as the entry into police state power and control. The bill postpones defining all the regulations to be imposed; postpones defining crimes to be punished, postpones defining penalties to be applied. It removes fundamental constitutional protections from all citizens in the country, making them subject to a corporate tribunal with unlimited power and penalties, and without judicial review. It is (similar to C-6 in Canada) the end of Rule of Law in the US.
For further information, watch these videos:
Food Laws – Forcing people to globalize

802maple

12-04-2010, 05:31 PM

I find it humorus almost when I listen to many of you. It seems that no one is going to be worried about it until it is law. Then we will try to figure out how to work with what you have. That is exactly what has got us in all the trouble this country is in now.

Lets all just bury our heads in the sand and maybe it will all go away!

Revi

12-04-2010, 05:42 PM

I have written to my representatives already. This is ridiculous. We are going to need more farms and local food, not less. With the advent of Peak Oil we need to make growing food a priority again and do it soon. This kind of nonsense shows that our government needs to listen to us and not Monsanto.

Let's get rid of this bill. Write your representative today!

ahowes

12-04-2010, 07:11 PM

I read a summary of this bill. From what I gathered, this bill is targeting foods that are at a high risk of a food borne illness. The bill also stated exempts or limits requirements for farms, restaurants, raw agricultural commodities, and fishing vessels. I don't know for sure, but like Dr. Tim Perkins, I won't get too worried either until it passes the house.

Yes, but we've been fine for many, many years. It's another power grab by the government. Soon, we won't be able to wipe our rears without government regulation.

Acer

12-04-2010, 07:22 PM

Soon, we won't be able to wipe our rears without government regulation.

Ahowes

Right now the actual wiping act is unregulated, but everything that comes before (food)and everything that comes after(waste disposal) is quite highly regulated.

D

Acer

12-04-2010, 07:24 PM

802 is on it.

OGDENS SUGAR BUSH

12-04-2010, 08:45 PM

people that think there is nothing to worry about must have their head in the sand. if you think its hard to stop this bill you are right but its much much harder to get it repealed. carry the fight to them not the other way around

Dennis H.

12-05-2010, 08:05 AM

I did some searching on this topic, hard to find info that isn't weighted toward the "WORLD IS COMING TO AN END" kind of thinking.

Well anyway what I found is that it states that small farm producers are exempt if you sell less than $500,000 annually am I correct. Now it did state something about if someone has a problem with your product health wise that the FDA or whoever they are will remove your exempt status so that they can investigate the problem. Again if I read and under stood correctly.

I wish there wasn't so much way out there websites to get info about gov't. The links that were posted in this listing several posting ago, I could finish reading it, it was all doom and gloom!

backyardsugarer

12-05-2010, 09:51 AM

Well,

I guess we will have to get a keg at the end of the year and get all the small guys together so we can set up an underground trade (just like prohibition). Don't worry guys. only another month until the republicans get some control back and this is the type of bill they hate. Any fee to me is ridiculous since I only make about $500 - $1,000 worth of commercial grade per year anyhow. I guess I will just give it away if the bill passes.

Chris

NH Maplemaker

12-05-2010, 07:19 PM

Guess there is going to be alot of free syrup out there!!

twofer

12-06-2010, 09:11 AM

Well anyway what I found is that it states that small farm producers are exempt if you sell less than $500,000 annually am I correct. Now it did state something about if someone has a problem with your product health wise that the FDA or whoever they are will remove your exempt status so that they can investigate the problem. Again if I read and under stood correctly.

While the Tester amendment looks to be a good thing for maple syrup producers I still have a couple concerns with it.

What happens if you sell your syrup bulk to a packager? Are you no longer exempt?
The 275 mile limit on direct to consumer sales.

cherryfarmer

12-06-2010, 08:01 PM

Quit complaining. This is some what I have to go through. Only water is allowed in the orchard, NO GATORADE. a GOVERMENT APPROVED TOILET FACILITY AND AN ASSIGNED VECHIEL FOR GETTING TO THE TOILET. NO FOOD IN THE ORCHARD. NO PETS OR ANIMALS SUCH AS HORSES OR DOG. A SIGN INN SHEET FOR ALL VISITORS, ANY VECHAEL THAT IS USED FOR MANURE PURPOSES MUST BE STEAMED CLEANED AND DOCUMENTED IT WAS CLEANED BEFORE ENTERING THE ORCHARD. PRODUCE MUST BE COVERED. A WATER SAMPLE IS NOT ENOUGH. YOU MUST DOCUMENT THAT AND WHY YOU SAY THE WATER IS SAFE. IN OTHER WORDS " THE WATER IS SAFE BECAUSE THE SAMPLE SAYS IT IS SAFE" MUST BE DOCUMENTED. A GROWER WAS TOLD NOT TO PICK SOME SWEET CORN BECAUSE THE INSPECTOR SAW A FLOCK OF BIRDS FLY OVER THE CORN. IF AN INSPECTOR FOUND DEER POOP THEY QUARENTINE ALL BERRIES WITHIN 100 FEET. THEY WANT TO SEE ORCHARDS FENCED IN BUT NOT MANDITORY A FAILURE IN ANY OF THESE COULD RESULT IN YOUR CROP NOT BEING SOLD. OH AND BY THE WAY INSPECTION COST $92.00 PER HOUR CHARGED TO AND FROM THE OFFICE. NOW TRANSLATE THIS TO A SURGERBUSH OR SUGARHOUSE. AND THE LIST GOES ON

Dennis H.

12-06-2010, 08:37 PM

Ooookkkkk!

Swifty

12-06-2010, 09:50 PM

Senate bill 510 is devastating to the small farm producer. It is full of regulations that add fees and time consuming paperwork for each of us comply. Even with the Testor amendment the FDA can come on your farm and shut you down even if they only suspect something is wrong. A good website you can go to is www.nonais.org. It has a good explanation of the effects of this bill are on the small farm producer. Swifty

Swifty

12-06-2010, 10:06 PM

I forgot to state that the $500,000 exemption doesn't keep you from having to comply with the regulations. If you are found to have broken regulations the FDA can enter your property and shut you down! The good thing right now is the bill is stuck in the House because the Senate put provisions in the bill that included taxes or fees from the farmer. That is unconstiutional. The house have some options but there is a good chance the Congress won't have time to make changes before the Holiday recess of Dec. 24th. Call or e-mail your Senators and Representatives. This is the first time I've done this. This bill is extremely bad news for all small farmers. Swifty

Bucket Head

12-06-2010, 10:47 PM

Cherryfarmer,

Are the rules in MI stricter than other states? Are these rules exclusive to cherry orchards? I've never heard of such requirements. I've seen many apple orchards that have everything from u-pick, self guided tours, to tractor/wagon rides. How do those operations do that with the restrictions your talking about?

Thanks,
Steve

3rdgen.maple

12-06-2010, 11:40 PM

Im wondering the same thing Bucket Head. The first thing that crossed my mind was something prompted the tight regulations on that particular crop and thats not the norm. BUT THAT IS JUST A THOUGHT. Lol had to put all caps in there somewhere. I also think we have the right and should complain cause if we didnt the government would do anything to take our money and we would just let them.

Bucket Head

12-07-2010, 12:15 AM

Like I said before, I don't like the sounds of this upcoming proposal. I'm not against some safegaurds, but more costs and the eventual demise of us little guys is unacceptable. Instead of all new rules, they should enforce whats already on the books. Overall, our food and water is pretty safe. Look at what some foreign countries are eating and drinking...

The large food producers are the main culprits when it comes to public health problems. Remember the meat, eggs and peanut butter ordeals- all "big guy's" not following the rules. I've said for years that production rules should be and would be coming, and Dr. Tim is right when he say's they should apply to all. There are still "a few" producers out there that have questionable equipment and processing practices, and that's a threat to all of us. But overall, the "little guy" is'nt the problem. More testing by Ag & Markets would find those "problems". No more legislation would be needed.

All the "fine print" in this upcoming bill is bad news. Hopefully it will hit a dead end so we don't see a dead end in the near future.

Steve

Haynes Forest Products

12-07-2010, 12:35 AM

Well In Wisconsin its ok to take your dog into the orchard in the back of your truck and drink a beer get out and pee on any tree you decide to pick from without no stinking sign in sheets and if they had fences around them you would kill a 1000 snowmobilers a year because we like to run at night with the lights off to scare the poop out of the deer and 1/2 the time the portolet is on its side from some dang kids with the contents running in the muddy ruts and why do they ware a mask when they spray the orchard is that stuff bad for you:o......SHUT UP CHUCK

Squaredeal

12-07-2010, 07:41 AM

DrTimPerkins

12-07-2010, 07:52 AM

I think the food safety bill is the least of our worries -check out the new effort from within the industry.
"The Vermont Maple Industry Council, an association of maple packers who buy syrup from wholesalers, is spearheading a proposed set of certification standards for producers".

So right off the bat this article is dead wrong. The Vermont Maple Industry Council is not an association of packers. It includes representatives from ALL parts of the Vermont maple industry, including VMSMA representatives. There has been discussion about certification/registration since at least 1999, when there was an industry-wide retreat (with lots of producers there), and certification was ranked the #1 thing that the industry should do to protect itself. It has taken this long to get this close simply because of the great deal of care and deliberation this group has taken.

Dennis H.

12-07-2010, 07:57 AM

I am coming to like the way Haynes says things!:lol::evil:

One thing he didn't mention is if illegals were allowed in the orchard, I am assuming they are because everything else that isn't allowed was listed!:evil:

Swifty

12-07-2010, 08:31 AM

Bucket Head hit the nail right on the head. If the standing regulations were enforced there would be no need for further legislation. The FDA wants to be able to do what ever it wants when it wants. This bill stinks of corporate agribusiness. They want to have a monopoly of our WHOLE food system. The small food producer are the safest. Its proven! We have to look the consumer in the eye. They buy from us in full view of our operations. I don't think that maple producers are the target per say. But somebody like myself who sells meat chickens, turkeys, eggs and processes all the poultry on the farm. They would love to see us all gone. If you sell raw milk, the FDA will be at your farms first as I'm sure you know better than I. Raw milk is a four letter word to our government. All small farmers need to band together to protect each other. Swifty

DrTimPerkins

12-07-2010, 10:12 AM

...The small food producer are the safest. Its proven!

This depends greatly on what you're measuring, and how. Example...large factory farms have significantly LOWER incidences of food safety problems (because they tend to have food safety programs in place), however even one small issue can affect a much HIGHER number of people. For the large farms, contamination issues often happen when workers and/or management ignores or disregards they own food safety programs. Basically the same thing as happened this summer with the gulf well blowout. They had safety programs in place, but ignored all the tests where the cement failed which should have told them that something was wrong. They were cutting corners.

In terms of lead and other contamination issues in maple syrup, smaller producers as a group tend to have a higher proportion of problems, but again, one incident at a large producer affects far more syrup. However, most of the larger producers already have good enough record keeping so that batches are easily separated, which isolates the problem to just a day or a part of a day (a barrel or two), whereas a problem with smaller producer who doesn't have good record keeping might result in the loss of their entire season's production because they can't isolate what is good from what might be bad.

Please note that I am not saying that small farmers/producers are doing a poor job. Most small maple producers can, and do, make excellent syrup. But there are so many of them, and sometimes a few try to cut corners. It's a numbers thing. Example -- let's say that there are 10,000 small maple producers in the U.S., and 0.01% of them aren't really doing the best job....that means there are 100 who might have some "issue." But they don't make a lot of syrup, so it doesn't affect many people. Maybe there are 1,000 large producers, and usually the % who aren't doing a good job is lower (it is often a good part of their livelihood, so they are typically a good deal more careful). So 1,000 x 0.005% = 5 producers who might have an "issue," however they do sell a lot more syrup, so even those 5 large producers have a big impact. It doesn't matter if you're a small farmer selling 20 gal a year, or a large producer selling 5,000 gal a year...if you have a contamination problem, both are going to make a real bad impression when it hits the press.

Need a real example...read this story about a mouse in a bottle of table syrup http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2010/12/02/woman-find-dead-mouse-in-syrup-bottle/ Worse yet, the next paper that picked up the story got it wrong and wrote that it was maple syrup http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2010/12/rena_snyder_gag.php After I requested a correction they added the word "flavored" in the first paragraph. Prior to that it read "maple syrup." But for those who read it before the correction, maple syrup gets a bad rap without even doing anything. Given the size of the market of this paper (Minneapolis-St. Paul), how many consumers looked at that and said, "I'm never buying maple syrup again."

Whether it's a large farm or a small farm, cutting corners on food safety (or any kind of safety for that matter) is a bad idea. Might save a few $ in the short run, but cost far more later down the road.

Swifty

12-07-2010, 12:56 PM

Dr. Perkins,
You are talking syrup. I'm talking the whole food supply. Go look at a confinement lot where beef cattle are raised. A poultry house where meat and laying hens are raised. A confinement pork operation. I don't have those problems because my animals don't have those pathogens because they aren't confined. They are free range, grassfed animals. I know the above topic dosen't have anything to do with syrup. The point of my previous post is that many syrup producers have other farm income and if you have a problem with one, say your turkey harvest, your syrup operation is also at risk. Swifty

DrTimPerkins

12-07-2010, 01:05 PM

The point of my previous post is that many syrup producers have other farm income and if you have a problem with one, say your turkey harvest, your syrup operation is also at risk.

I am not certain that you are right on that point (you could be, but I don't recall seeing this elucidated somewhere). If they decide to close down your turkey operation, it might well have absolutely no impact at all on your syrup operation (other than they'd probably take a darn close look at it). I think it would depend heavily upon what the problem was.

Swifty

12-07-2010, 06:03 PM

Dr. Perkins,
You are under the illusion that our government agencies are working for the common good of the people. They are not. I'm not some activist or anything like that. In the last year have been reading about how the FDA and USDA have treated ordinary people, mostly farmers. I have done this because I have started to raise my own food for my own family because I'm sick of all of the crap that is fed to the animals and all of the chemicals that are put on our produce. All of these policies have been put in place because of corporate agriculture wanting to have their hands in everything. So if you cross one of the above agencies and piss them off in one of your agricultural ventures and you don't think that they won't shut all of your others down you are mistaken. I have read of countless small farmers on the internet having to deal with bullying tactics. It's sickening. Swifty

TapME

12-07-2010, 09:15 PM

If it smells like goverment, acts like goverment then it's going to taste like sour goverment. Remember the stimulous is puting people to work it just may not be what we (the people) want.

PS. someone has to pay for the stimulous may as well be us little people who have no voice.

Goggleeye

12-07-2010, 10:03 PM

I know some of you may be getting tired of the links, but hey, this is reality, even if it is doom and gloom. I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that everything is hunky-dory all the while a group of liberal progressive elitists are stripping me of my freedoms all under the guise of wanting to do what's best for me. And seriously, folks, how our sugaring hobby/business is effected is the least of our worries. Were talking about a fundamental loss of freedom to make choices for ourselves about how we eat, drink, raise our kids, choose to live, and make a living.

The way I've broken it down, 3 groups have united to achieve their goals, and to achieve their goals, small farms, personal property, entrepreneurship, etc. must be done away with.

Progressive Social Justice Liberals want taxes, fees, etc, just another way of redistributing the wealth.
Big Business/Corporate Farms have to get rid of their competition so they can make more money. They are more than happy to work with the social justice crowd.
Socialists & Communists are just fine with both of the above because it makes their attempt to take control over every aspect of our lives an easier task. (Easier to take over a few big businesses than thousands of small ones.) And this Food Safety Bill is another stepping stone on their way to Oz.

Do a little research on the Frankfurt School and their calculated plan to infiltrate the American education system and prepare us for a communist takeover. I know some of you are thinking, "Man, this guy's a conspiracy theory nutcase" right about now. To say that is simply wanting to avoid dealing with the issues at hand. Really folks, seriously make an effort to educate yourselves on these matters, and a lot of things that are going on in the world and politics really start to make sense. If anybody's interested, PM me, I've got very good, reliable, well documented references on this type of info.

A good example of special interests working together to stamp out raw milk. http://www.news-leader.com/article/20100921/COLUMNISTS27/9210309/-1/RSS09

The story of what happened to Morningland Dairy, a raw milk dairy from Mtn. View, MO is just a hint of what's to come. In summary, they were shut down by the FDA without just cause or due process. http://ftcldf.org/fda-ace-in-the-hole-kennedy.htm

A really good website to keep up to date on these issues. http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/

One last thing. No hard feelings towards anyone I disagree with, and my words are not intended to be of political nature. I'm very concerned about my freedoms and the direction of our nation, and it is my hope that others would sincerely educate themselves so that we make the best decisions possible towards preserving that freedom.

driske

12-07-2010, 11:38 PM

Well guys, the thing to do is write your elected people in Washington with the same passion and eloquence evident in this thread. Preaching to the choir will only take so it far. The time to do it is now. If there is any respect for the electorate it should be now.
802 is spot on. We need to be proactive. Wait and see is just what they are hoping for. Believe that Monsanto, ADM, Cargill and the rest have their interest covered. The only tool we have here is the ballot box, and holding these Senators and Congressmen accountable.
Speak your piece, loud and often. "We must hang together, or surely we will hang alone".

markcasper

12-08-2010, 07:32 AM

Everyone needs to realize that this is not Washington doing this. This is an elite group of globalists. Most of them are bankers....BIG bankers, not the one on the corner. The people that control the money are pulling the strings. Congress is 95% bought and paid for no matter which party they are.

i am surprised no one has brought up whats going on at the airports. You know what, ...K them all, I will not go through a naked body scanner or get groped!! Do you know what is being rolled out at Wal-mart? It is scary and crazy times upon us and we all must fight this.

Bucket Head

12-08-2010, 02:27 PM

What is being rolled out at Wal-Mart? Body scanners there too?

Steve

markcasper

12-08-2010, 02:54 PM

It seems some people just do not want to accept the things that are happening around us. Hearing things like no "doom and gloom" for me is just a simple sign of being in denial. Denying it and ignoring it will not make it go away.

I have gotten criticized many times for listening to Alex Jones. Whether one agrees or not...He is most always hitting it dead on. So here is the link to whats rolling out at Wal-mart.

http://www.infowars.com/big-sis-invasion-of-walmart-start-of-obamas-civilian-security-force/

Very simply: Telescreens at walmart with government messages to spy on your neighbor.

Al-CIA-da may be in a shopping cart.

http://www.infowars.com/critics-of-big-siswal-mart-spy-campaign-branded-insane/

Dennis H.

12-08-2010, 05:52 PM

When only DOOM & GLOOM is mentioned after awhile it becomes background noise.

Those links that were included in several posts took us to the same type of websites, lots of stuff junking up the website and the message is all the same, DOOM DOOM DOOM.

You talk about Big Gov and Big Corp, why the heck do those website have so many ads on those websites? That sure looks like BIG CORPS to me.

All I am saying is that you need BOTH sides of the story to make an educated choice.

Haynes Forest Products

12-08-2010, 06:26 PM

Im with Dennis H Yea it sucks that Walmart get stuff from China. But so does Target, K Mart, Sams Club, Costco, Harbor Freight, Dewalt, Bell+Gosset, Every cell phone made. Hell I bet someone on this site got a kid from China. So now I can go to the store down the road and pay higher prices for the same thing that I could get from Walmart. What will that do for me? will it make me feel better? I just cant jump on this I hate everything that isnt made in th US band wagon. I wonder back when we made everything that was "GOOD IN THE WORLD" how all the other countries felt about having to buy from us? Im to Dang busy to spend what little time I have left on this earth worring about boycotting every store that gets it stuff from China.

PATheron

12-08-2010, 06:46 PM

Holy BIGSAP crap!! I hope season comes early, you guys need some vacuum leaks to fix or something. Theeeron

smitty76

12-08-2010, 06:57 PM

Theron, I'm with you. We have lots to do, and do not need this doom to get us down. It is going to be a great season, plenty to all.

PATheron

12-08-2010, 07:45 PM

I hate all the trouble we get from our politicians too. I stay informed, I know whats going on and I try to do what I can but I just dont let it get me down. Then theyve really won. When I make up my mind to do something its going to happen. You can take that to the bank and if someone throws me a roadblock I consider the problem, overcome it one way or another and move foreward. Thats how I roll. One way or another I will accomplish whatever I feel like doing. Theron

Bucket Head

12-08-2010, 10:30 PM

"Al-CIA-Da is in the shopping carts". I don't know about that, but is case they are, don't use a cart. Use one of the hand-carried baskets. Problem solved!

Yes, I hope the sap season comes soon too...

Theres enough gloom and doom out there. We get it from all over. I just hate seeing it all over the Trader.

Steve

Acer

12-09-2010, 10:42 PM

Senate added taxes to their version of the bill. House is apparently blue slipping it. Revenue bills cannot originate in the senate according to the constitution.

Probably safe for now but this will resurface in 2011. Call/write your reps/senators to keep it dead.

http://www.naturalnews.com/030588_Food_Safety_bill_blue_slip.html

D

markcasper

12-10-2010, 02:31 AM

So not many people want to hear doom and gloom. That is understandable. Its also understandable that some people do not want to visit certain websites because they are one of THOSE SITES. The following article from CBS should put some thought into 9/11 and most every terror attack, and the resultant stripping of freedom that is currently going on.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/21/national/main6978200.shtml

red maples

12-21-2010, 07:14 AM

SO I was watching CNN this morning at the gym an I didn't catch all of it but just bits and pieces, but basically the tester ammendments to the s510 are as follows again just got bits and pieces:

there is a difference between small farms and very small farms (don't know what that is)

and there will be little to no extra legislation if you sell retail within 250 miles of your farm. (they didn't mention internet/ mail order sales)

they talked more about what it means for the big crops, proper washing of lettuceand all produce in general, Proper sanitary stations for field workers things like that.

One of the bigger topics I fell but was only touched on was the importation of agricultural items from other contries like chili, china etc. that there is really very poor to no inpection on produce brought in from other countries and it when it is inpected its bacically just a spot test.

So far things seem to be looking OK for the little producers of small and very small farms.

just my 2 cents..... If you are a small farmer don't cut corners to save a buck!!! I know money is tight but do it right and we will all be better off in the long run. It only take one shot in the arm for Big gov to step in and make it tougher for all of us.

markcasper

12-21-2010, 07:56 AM

[QUOTE=red maples;122551]SO I was watching CNN this morning at the gym an I didn't catch all of it but just bits and pieces, but basically the tester ammendments to the s510 are as follows again just got bits and pieces:

there is a difference between small farms and very small farms (don't know what that is)

and there will be little to no extra legislation if you sell retail within 250 miles of your farm. (they didn't mention internet/ mail order sales)

they talked more about what it means for the big crops, proper washing of lettuceand all produce in general, Proper sanitary stations for field workers things like that.

One of the bigger topics I fell but was only touched on was the importation of agricultural items from other contries like chili, china etc. that there is really very poor to no inpection on produce brought in from other countries and it when it is inpected its bacically just a spot test.

So far things seem to be looking OK for the little producers of small and very small farms.

just my 2 cents..... If you are a small farmer don't cut corners to save a buck!!! I know money is tight but do it right and we will all be better off in the long run.

Homestead Maple

01-15-2011, 09:46 PM

*
Sanders: Small Vermont farmers exempted from regulations in food-safety bill

The bill passed 73-25 with a provision by Sen. Jon Tester, D-Mont., that would exempt from new regulations smaller farms that sell most goods directly to consumers and have less than $500,000 in annual sales.

Another provision by Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., would exempt small, low-risk, on-farm food processors from new regulations aimed at large agribusiness. Such processors could be farms that make their own maple syrup, preserves, jarred fruits and vegetables, or baked goods.

markcasper

01-16-2011, 01:06 AM

$500,000 is a small number. A 15,000 tap operation that makes a portion of their crop into value added products will have no problem selling $500,000, unless of course there is a black market going on. Notice that figure is gross sales not net sales. If and most likely when the US dollar goes into a hyperinflationary phase, $500,000 in sales will be blown by pretty fast even with an operation of my size. Theres nothing in the bill that addresses such a situation. The bottom line is that the bill is designed to shut down small farms and ranches, all in the name of food safety.

220 maple

01-16-2011, 08:46 AM

Mark,
I could not agree more 500,000 is a small number. My goal this year is to gross 495,000 dollars, if I reach my goal I going to give the rest of my syrup away.(HaHa) A couple years ago I mentioned to Henry B. the guy I sell my commercial syrup to that there was talk of 1000 dollars fee for wholesalers of maple syrup. His responce was I'll need to make three extra dollars a day. I don't belief he gave it another thought. Henry operates just like what Theron said if they throw us a road block we need to figure away over, around or thru if need be to win the battle
Mark 220 Maple

bobbyjake

04-14-2011, 12:17 PM

Boy, I wish this was the case....

15,000 taps equals 3,750-5,000 taps on average. I understand that it is possible to make 7,500 but it is not likely. In any event, 5,000 gallons is $150K wholesale, $300K in syrup retail and only when/if value added consumed half of your crop (which it won't) and the balance was all retail, you could work up toward $400K. Realistically, 20,000 tap operations might get $500K, but they have to make 7,500 gallons, which most don't, would have to sell nearly half at value added ($100/gal equivalent) and the balance at retail (that scenario incidentally is about $600K).

And if your value added includes nuts or breakfast/pancake mix batches, then you just entered a whole new element by adding $$$ in revenue to your bottom line that is not syrup based, which means you have an outside product purchasing costs that needs to be backed out of your product revenues in determining if your operation is now subject to the regulation.

3rdgen.maple

05-03-2011, 05:03 PM

So I am listening to talk radio on the way to work and the guy starts out a topic on how this Amish farm in Pa that goes by the name of Rainbow Farms was just shut down by the FDA for selling to a select few individuls unpasturized milk, in which the buyers insisted that they only want unpasturized milk as it in there claim was healthier for them. The FDA jumped in and shut the farm down. Then the guy goes on to comment that unpasturized milk is like buying Grade B maple syrup. Man I wish people who had no idea what they are talking about would just shut up. A farmer gets his life turned upside down by the FDA for some petty bs of selling a few galllons of unpasturized milk and then turn this into a comparison with maple syrup. Will this ever end. I was raised on unpasturized milk and dang if Im still alive. Also the guy noted that no one had any ill effects or claims against the farmer.

TapME

05-03-2011, 08:49 PM

I was raised on un pasterized milk and I am still alive. (how did that happen) lived all this time without seat belts too. Had maple taffy on snow (how unsanitary) Big brother is to big for his britches(people who have to justify there jobs by doing things that make them look good). how did we ever live without them looking over our shoulder to the age I am today.

DrTimPerkins

05-03-2011, 09:28 PM

Although the incidence of getting ill from unpasteurized milk is quite low (which is why some people can drink it their whole life and not be affected), the consequences can be very bad. About 800 people have gotten sick from raw milk since 1998. Unpasteurized milk MAY contain very dangerous bacteria, including Salmonella, E. coli, and Listeria. All of these can make people quite ill, or even kill. Infants and small children, pregnant women (raw milk can cause miscarriage, or illness or death of newborns), the elderly, and people with compromised immune systems are particularly susceptible. If the majority of milk were not pasteurized, illness and death rates would be higher.

maple connection

05-03-2011, 09:50 PM

It is scary, Just seems that years ago when people ate some clean dirt with there meal they had a better immune sytem that what we have now with all the preservatives and steroids in just about everything. EXCEPT pure maple syrup:lol:.

Monster Maples

05-03-2011, 10:28 PM

In my opinion that is the problem. I don't have scientific evidence to prove it. We never bought milk when I was a kid. Why would we? We just filled our container when it was empty from the bulk tank. Anymore if you go to the doctor you get prescribed antibiotics for everything, symptoms you didn't even know you had:) That is how it seems anymore. If our immune system isn't what it used to be, we are more susceptible.

It is scary, Just seems that years ago when people ate some clean dirt with there meal they had a better immune sytem that what we have now with all the preservatives and steroids in just about everything. EXCEPT pure maple syrup:lol:.

markcasper

05-04-2011, 06:05 AM

The issue, I believe, is not about getting sick. Think about all of the lives lost on the road every day and noone is mandating not driving. The issue of buying milk right from the farm had to be made difficult by the big select food companies and agribusiness. Anything that could affect the profit margin had to be made difficult.

There is a revolving door of corrupt people that goes on between Kraft, Monsanto, Dairy Farmers of America (DFA), Dean Foods and the FDA whether one believes it or not. The issue of drinking raw milk was a non-issue in this country before 1959.

The processing of the milk gives it a long shelf life. Back in the day, milk was delivered raw in glass bottles several days of the week and according to my grandpa that once hauled it, "you never heard of people getting sick".

I have drank bulk tank milk my whole life and just have to chuckle that what I am doing is basically considered illegal, then only to see the line of cars everyday at the cancer causing fast food places sucking down the aspartame soda and eating the McFranken food. It makes no sense at all!

vtmapleman

05-04-2011, 07:40 AM

Like others I also grew up on 'raw' milk - had no side effects - my folks only had one cow. I remember my father making sure that the udder and teats were perfectly clean. I have seen how some farmers clean their cows and I am not sure I would drink that milk. Here in VT it is legal for a farmer to sell 'raw' milk. However, I beleive there is a limitation on the volumn of milk that can be sold. I quess if I were to buy it I would go to a farm and take a good look at their operation. I agree with Dr. P - it takes just one instance.

Haynes Forest Products

05-04-2011, 08:40 AM

Just because it came from a farm doesn't make it good because it bypassed the evil Corporation. I have seen some real S**t HOLES that have dairy cows roaming around the muck and broken down equipment.
I would say that we are safer because of the new standards and way of producing our food. Heck look what happens to a dairy farmer that doesn't wash his milk mainlines they can get demoted from A to B producer. Now lets get out there and start washing all the mainlines in the woods fellow maple syrup producers.

DrTimPerkins

05-04-2011, 09:55 AM

Back in the day, milk was delivered raw in glass bottles several days of the week and according to my grandpa that once hauled it, "you never heard of people getting sick".

They did, you just didn't hear much about it. The TV news didn't broadcast gruesome statistics to every household each night (few houses even had TV), it wasn't on every news webpage, Facebook didn't pass the news among friends, and nobody was Twittering about it (no computers). And there was not a public who was nearly totally ignorant of where food comes from, and are thus very susceptible to mass hysteria about food safety like they are today. But even back then, people did get quite sick, some did die, there were miscarriages and there were infant deaths. It wasn't real common, but it was just something that happened on occasion that people just accepted.

RileySugarbush

05-04-2011, 10:17 AM

I was raised on un pasterized milk and I am still alive.

100% of those testifying that they are still alive did not die. We aren't hearing from the dead ones!

TF Maple

05-04-2011, 10:32 AM

The issue, I believe, is not about getting sick. Think about all of the lives lost on the road every day and noone is mandating not driving. The issue of buying milk right from the farm had to be made difficult by the big select food companies and agribusiness. Anything that could affect the profit margin had to be made difficult.

I think it is about health issues. 20 years ago when my kids were young they had reoccurring strep throat and when we stopped drinking our raw milk, it went away. And our milk was real clean. My sister-in-law took some to a college class for culturing. After the culture was done the professor told her not to use pasturized milk, she said it wasn't pasturized, it came from my sister's farm. He said it was really good milk.

I've heard too many conspiracy theories in my time and have yet to find any proof that any were real. Most of them seem to only exist in the minds of people. Sorry!

DrTimPerkins

05-04-2011, 11:42 AM

100% of those testifying that they are still alive did not die. We aren't hearing from the dead ones!

That would definitely make it a biased sample. :)

markcasper

05-04-2011, 04:59 PM

I've heard too many conspiracy theories in my time and have yet to find any proof that any were real. Most of them seem to only exist in the minds of people. Sorry!

It is no secret that many people live in a delusional make-believe world. If somebody doesn't believe something then it must not be true or it is quickly labeled a conspiracy theory.

The dairy industry reeks of backdoor dealing, lies and misconceptions. I was born and continue to semi-work on our family dairy farm. I think I know a little bit about what I am talking about!

For information on the above you need to read:http://www.themilkweed.com/

It is true about what many of you have said about S--THOLES milking cows, not washing teats, etc. (My uncle used to haul bulk milk, my dad rode a long one time in the late 60's and my dad told him he shouldn't have pumped it after seeing the bottom of the tank.) That was 40 some years ago. Most of those places are not in business any more as their quality shut them down. I would not drink milk from a place like that either. Milk being produced like that today certainly would not be Grade A, let alone even be passed by the milk inspector. As far as Grade B, some of the Amish are the only ones left in that catagory that I am aware.

The issue has gotten sidetracked. I do not believe the government has the right to step in and decide what I may or may not consume as long as it affects no one else. That is the issue at hand. It, I believe goes above and beyond the role that government is to serve.

DrTimPerkins

05-04-2011, 05:26 PM

I do not believe the government has the right to step in and decide what I may or may not consume as long as it affects no one else.

I completely agree. The difference for me comes about when the product is sold. Once it enters commerce, there is an obligation on the part of the producer to ensure that the product is as safe as it can be. If everyone did this, there would be no problem. Since some won't without outside intervention, the Government makes rules to provide them some incentive and guidance to do the right thing, or to punish those who do not.

twitch

05-04-2011, 06:55 PM

do you think the govt while even show up to check or only respond to complaints or just not do any thing besides make some rules.

Flat Lander Sugaring

06-21-2011, 07:29 AM

I heard yesterday that VT is closer to implementing some laws about sugar houses. I guess it is the hot and cold running water, drains in the floors, concrete floors. I don't know if this applies to all sugar makers or just the ones selling bulk or selling syrup from your front door.
If any one has heard anything post up.

DrTimPerkins

06-21-2011, 09:06 AM

I heard yesterday that VT is closer to implementing some laws about sugar houses.

I have heard nothing of this kind. There is a movement within the Vermont maple industry (VMSMA and VMIC) to have basic voluntary guidelines, but that is all I've heard.

Flat Lander Sugaring

06-21-2011, 08:53 PM

it could be inside our industry and not the jack booted thugs coming to our sugar houses, the person telling me this wasn't really sure himself just mentioned some one I have heard of before that has been around a long time.

3rdgen.maple

06-21-2011, 10:50 PM

Flat my guess would be what you heard is the letter the packers sent out to their buyers in regards to what they are planning or proposing to implement in order for a producer to sell their bulk syrup to them. The letter is floating around here somewhere. I will see if I can track it down and repost it.

3rdgen.maple

06-21-2011, 11:06 PM

Found it Flats.

"The third party food safety auditors that inspect facilities such as our bottling plant are requesting more from suppliers. Producer certification will soon be required to sell your syrup in bulk.
Enclosed is a minimum set of suggested requirements created by a committee of the Vermont Maple Industry Council. I would expect that many additional requirements may be added to this or will follow shortly. In addition to the outline attached, hot and cold running water, suitably well drained floors, hoods for the flue pan and syrup pan and clean, organized sugarhouses are standards I feel should be in place. "

SAP COLLECTING
Sugarmakers using equipment known to have lead in it will have random testing at the expense of the producer
Collecting will not be done in anything plastic that is not food grade. Dry wall buckets etc.
Tin or rusty, painted buckets or tanks will not be allowed.
Tanks should be protected from the weather and animals
No container that has held an allergin such as milk will be allowed without proper cleaning and rinsing
Any cleaning agent used to clean tubing should be designed for that purpose
Compressors used to clean tubing should have a settling bowl to collect oil or any other residues from the pump

Any vacuum system should have a check valve between the pump and the releaser.

SAP FILTERING AND PRECONCENTRATING

Pool filters must use clean sand or food grade diatomaceous earth. Other filters must consist of clean, odor free, food grade materials.

All sugarmakers must take a course in the proper use, storage and disposal of chemicals, and they must demonstrate profiency by a written test after the course is completed. Periodic retesting may be required. The course will cover chemicals which may be used for cleaning tubing and evaporators, as well as for cleaning and storing RO membranes.

Sugarmakers must test whether the cleaning materials are safely removed from the RO, so that they will not contaminate sap.

BOILING
Galvanized boiling pans are forbidden. All evaporators, whether made by a maple equipment manufacturer or "home made" mustbe made with food grade or potable water contact.

SYRUP FILTERING STORAGE AND PACKAGING

Bulk storage containers must be used as they are intended, includeing the use of one way epoxy lined barrels as a single use only, and must be food grade or potable water only.

All syrup should be filtered using industry approved filters and filtering methods. These include the use of mold free, odor free cloth and paper filters, food grade diatamaceous earth, and food grade lubricants for the filter press

Proper coding and record keeping are required for each container that is sold.

SUGARHOUSE SANITATION

Sap and syrup may not contact mold or moldy surfaces anywhere during production

Pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers, etc. must not be kept in the sameroom as sap or syrup. Chemicals used for cleaning maple equipment must be stored in a safe manner
Any petroleum product should be contained in a manner to prevent contamination by spills or fumes anywhere near sap or syrup

The exhaust from a pump or motormust be isolated so that it does not contaminate exposed sap or syrup

Any water which contactsequipment used for the handling or storage of sap or syrup must be potable.

A hand washing station consisting of flowing potable water, soap, and single use towels must be located in the sugarhouse for use prior to handling equipment that contacts sap or syrup.