Depth of sap in evaporator-----

[latewood]

I have been running my evaporator between 3/4 to one inch in depth for years now. I have to watch it closely,but I think I can produce a greater percentage of light this way(in my opinion). What depth do most of you run at? I have a 4 x 16 wood fired rig without an osmose system. Would you have to run much deeper with an RO? Am very interested in the depth others run thier rigs at.

[PETE FELCH]

LATEWOOD
WE HAVE A 6X16 WATERLOO-SMALL 10 FOOT FLUE AND 3 2FT CROSS PANS WITH AN RO FEEDING THEM. I HAVE TO KEEP IT ATLEAST 2 IN TO GET ENOUGH FLOW THROUGH THE AUTO DRAW OFF.
PETE

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I run mine around 1 inch and seem to have no problem producing light syrup. I can boil off over 50 gph and it only takes around 20 gallon to fill up my 2x8 to 1 inch, so the sap is moving on thru! :D

[Seibold's Sugarhouse]

Hello,
I have a question about the depth in the pans, I try to keep my flue and syrup pan at about 1". This seems to be the most popular depth, however my evaporator doesn't have float boxes. I have a ball valve that controls the feed into the flue pan from the preheater, most of the time I keep the valve about a 1/4 open. This seems to keep a fairly constant level. My only problem is any time my stack temp get over 550 the back pan gets real foamy and begins to boil over. I have to turn off the blower and let things mellow out a bit. Should I lower the depth in my flue pan? I have never used defoamer and I'm not crazy about the Idea of adding anything to the sap/syrup. Any Ideas? Am I doing something wrong? Do I have to use defoamer? How many people use defoamer?

Thanks for any Ideas,
Jason

[tstew]

use the defoamer u will notice your pan will also start boiling harder if u do.

[brookledge]

I didn't know anybody who didn't use defoamer with flue pans. I have been at it for over 30 years and have used it all the time. Quite frankly I don't think you are running your evaporator at capacity if you aren't using defoamer. You want the sap to stay as low in the pan as possible this will increase your evaporation rate. If you have foam 5-6" thick the steam at the bottom can't escape as easily. I'm assuming that you have a drop flue set up by the description you gave.
Leader recomends 1" for 24" to 30" wide evaporators
1.25" 36 to 40
1.50" 48" wide
1.75 60
2. 72
And then adding a little more if you are using forced draft,pre-heater or an R.O.
You can be Kosher certified and organic cetified even if you use defoamer you just have to use the right kinds.
Keith

[Seibold's Sugarhouse]

What's the procedure for using defoamer? Without float boxes, where should I add it? I assume I should add it at the back corner of the drop flue where I add the sap?
Thanks again,
Jason

[brookledge]

When I add it I put in only a drop or two into the flue pan usually in the flues then that controls everything until the last compartment of the syrup pan. Sometimes I have to add into the syrup pan but only do it in the last compartment do not add it in the middle of the syrup pan because it will pull the sweeter towards the middle and you will end up with syrup there and thats not where you want it.
Keith

[maplwrks]

Jason,
Put in a drop or two every 5-10 minutes and your rig will run much better. Put it in right where your sap discharge is. It only takes a drop to knock down the foam!

[Sugarmaker]

I know some folks that use only unsalted butter as the defoamer. We use the commercial defoamer and it works well in a squeeze bottle.
Chris

[brookledge]

In order to be organic certified you need to use 100% Canola Oil and that will also satisfy Kosher requirements also.
Keith

[markcasper]

anything wrong with using crisco?

[hintonsugarshack]

I run about 1/2" to 3/4" in mine and I get alot of light colered syrup never made grade b and only 3-4 gallons of dark amber. have to be careful.draw off slow.

[katmike]

After reading this discussion about sap depth, I think I've maybe realized why my half pint pan has now started to leak. I seldom had dephs of less than 1 inch in the pan, in fact many times I have filled it full of sap before I go back to the house at night.... that's about 6+ inches deep. Could the weight of that much in the pan casued a leak? It's right in the middle at a seam. I've never boiled it dry... This is my 3rd year with it.

[brookledge]

Mark Casper
I use crisco and it works fine just doesn't meet the requirements of organic if that is an issue.
Keith

[maple flats]

I don't know if 6" is too heavy for a half pint but when I used one I ran it between 1-1.25" and when shutting down I filled to 3-3.5" without a problem. I only used it 1 season but was about 10 yrs old when i bought it then I went with my present 2 x 6 rig. I still do similar but only fill to 2.5-3" when shutting down and still had at least 1" in the morning. What i do is stop filling firebox when getting ready to quit that boiling session but wait til it stops boiling before i flood the pan and if cold is forcast I draw a gallon of near syrup, and pour about 2 qts in flue pan where raw sap was being added and about a qt each to the next 2 of the four section flue pan. At the same time I switch the flow direction to be ready to start the next boil. This sweets in the flue pan protecs the pan from freezing and the gradient quickly re-establishes as I begin to boil the next time with flow in the opposite direction.

[WF MASON]

6'' of sap isn't to much for a half pint pan, but someone has to say it,...'solder'

[katmike]

I don't question it needs to be soldered. My concern is the cause.
I've never encoutered any discussion here that pans just start leaking without some kind of explanation, such as running dry.

[mapleman3]

Don't get mad at me for saying this but maybe because it's a starter type evap, the qualiity of construction may not be there? or was made on a monday morning or Fri afternoon :wink: who knows, may have just had a weak weld or solder....

[katmike]

Nobody's mad here.. I appreciate the feedback. Thanks. :)

I've discovered if I keep a low level in the pan, it barely leaks since the stress is not as bad. Hopefully I can limp through the rest season with it.

[Seibold's Sugarhouse]

How big is a "drop" of defoamer?? What should I use to add it?
Thanks again,
Jason

[brookledge]

With the defoamer in liquid state it, like an eye dropper one drop. I use crisco in container and use a long piece of copper wire #14ga. and will dip it in the crisco then put the wire exactly where I want the defoamer. The comercial defoamers usually come in a tappered squirt top and you can just squeeze one or two drops.
Keith

[Fred Henderson]

Any commerical defoamer that I ever used imparted the taste of the syrup. Now I only use unsalted butter.

[maplwrks]

Using too much defoamer will create off flavored syrup. It should only be used in the flue pan when needed. Glenn Goodrich once told me that a 4oz. bottle of defoamer should make 1000 gallons of syrup. Also, it is illegal to use anything but a food grade defoamer in Vermont.

[markcasper]

Brookledge, I learned to use crisco from my neighbor who has made syrup his whole life, hes 75. He has a slender dowel that he keeps in a 1/2 gallon can and you can wand it to wherever in the pan you need it. I tried the commercial powdered stuff and din't like it. Mark

[maplehound]

If you don't care about using comersial defoamer then why not just cook your lunch in it. Mnay small old time producers I have talked too cook hot dogs or even ham steaks in there syrup. This not only makes you lunch but also keeps the foam down. I shared someof my syrup with one of these guys and he carefully tased it ( like he was tasting a fine wine) and then asked me what I was defoaming with since he couldn't taste anything in it. I told him I always use the powdered comercial defoamer and he said that explained it. He always used hotdogs in his. :P He also said that instead of filtering his syrup he would wait till it was ready to take off and pour dairy cream in it and then scim it back out. That was supposed to trap all impurities in the cream. :? Well I think I will stick to the powder and the filter press that way it is pure syrup. :)

[mapleman3]

I'm going to try the "organic" route this year.. 100%canola oil.. the commercial defoamer is just concentrated vegetable oil anyway... so why not try it.. a drop at a time

[WF MASON]

I love crisco , just the name brings back the memory of mothers rubarb pie,anyway, a friend was at Goodrichs and bought a oil dropper, he said its like an old glass oiler on an old piece of equipment, but alot smaller,it hooks onto the partition in the pan and you adjust the flow of drops that come out , like one every minute or so. I hadn't ever heard of thoese , but they sound really good .

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jim,

Canola oil works great. The wire ties are a super good dispenser. Just dip it into a small container of the canola oil and add as desired! :D

[maplwrks]

Using an oil dripper is the way to go. They are adjustable to a drip a minute, worked on a 5x16 I boiled on for 6 years.

[Sugarmaker]

I may try the canola oil. It smells just about like the comercial defoamer too.
Chris