Vermiculite insulation??

[PARKER MAPLE]

Ok so im in the stage of rebuilding my 3x8 arch. take a look in my photo album. Tell me what you think. So heres the question. The arch was originally intended for a drop flue pan, it would of been easy to convert over when I was redoing the sides, but I was thinking about the future and maybe I would have a drop flue. So any ways Im going with a raised flue pan and need to know where the ramp it up and approx how much vermiculite I will need. Also where did you guys find the stuff ,local supply store today the guy looked at me like i had two heads when i asked if he could get it.

Thanks Maple Rookie

[C.Wilcox]

As far as how much to get, I wouldn't be able to say. Where to get it? I found it at the local big box hardware store in the insulation section, right next to the fiberglass.

[brookledge]

Any place that deals in bricks and mortar should have it. Or go to a garden center. The problem with some stores is they may only have small bags. A good supplier will have bags the size of 50lb grass seed bags. I'm not sure how much vermiculite will be in a bag that size since it was 8yrs since I last bought any
Keith

[tuckermtn]

I think I used one big bag for building up under my cermamic blanket- think it was about the size a big pillow- the one go to sleep with.

I got mine at a masonry supply shop.

[PARKER MAPLE]

Thanks guys Im going to try and find some today, any idea on how much of the front/ back of the flues I should leave exposed? Also I plan on building a ramp and like a shelf so theres not so much of a void under the back pan, like 5 in down from the rail. do you see any problem with this??

[Russell Lampron]

For a raised flue the ramp should go all of the way up to the rails.

[PARKER MAPLE]

ok but do i leave about 12in of the flues exposed in the front, and like 6in the rear??

[sfsshadow]

try a concrete supply store

[Sbascom]

I know Leader now carries it, we dont stock it here at Bascom's but we can special order it for you.

[maple flats]

The cheapest place to buy vermiculite is from a greenhouse supply. I bought mine from a company called W H Milikowski. They have stores thru new england. It comes in fine or course, I bought fine. It came in big bags, 4cu ft $13.95each. My 3x8 is raised flue and I used 3 big bags. If you have drop flue you might save a bag.If you go to Leader you will pay about 10X more, and a garden center the same. When I was looking I priced Lowes, they only had little 1/4 CF or so bags and I would have paid $260 to do the evaporator. I did it for just over $40. Just google WH Milikowski and follow the link to greenhouse supplies, there also seems to be a Milikowski in the medical field (or maybe another division of the same?)
There is no reason for Vermiculite to be so high priced, it is strictly a by product of steel smelting, the slag is popped like popcorn and you have vermiculite. If you do buy from another source be sure not to get anything with foam beads in it, any foam close to the heat would melt, or worse, try to burn. Plain Vermiculite will never burn.

[maple flats]

For my rig, I started ramping up straight above the back of the ash pit area. At first I made the back wall of the fire chamber straight up to 4" below the pans and then a little ramp at about 20 degrees up to about 1/4" below the siderails. I found this to force too much heat up too fast. Then when I added over fire combustion air the next year, I left the rear wall at 6.6" from the top, then I laid the manifold in so at the rear wall the nozzles laid on the bricks with a little cushion of refractory and the ramp started there, The nozzles were covered with refractory and then flat laid firebrick ramped back and up.. This ramp was about 50% longer and it worked good. Everything under the firebrick is vermiculite.

[PARKER MAPLE]

Any pics??? Also if I make the wall just in back of the fire box, being that the fire box is 3ft deep and the front pan being 3ft deep, I dont see how it would ever get to the flues. I think I have to go back like 6-12 in on the flue pan with the wall then up to the bottom of the rails. then leave like 5-6in in the rear for it to exit to the stack.

correct me if im wrong

[Dennis H.]

most places that make and sell cinder blocks should also carry vermiculite. It is used as an insulation in chimneys between the flue and chimney block.

[brookledge]

One thing that wasn't mentioned is you need to cover the vermiculite. Either with fire brick, or pour cement over it, or a ceramic blanket. either way you need to hold it in place from moving.
you may already be aware of this, but I didn't want you to miss that
Keith

[Father & Son]

Try this link -

http://www.cdl-dallaire.com/upload/public/File/Owner%27s%20manual%20wood%20evaporator.pdf


When I bricked my arch (for raised flue) I was told the front ramp should come up to the 1/3 point on the rear pan. 5 ft rear pan = 60", 1/3 = 20" from the front of the pan.
After messing with the rear ramp I found that what works best for me was making the opening the same square inch opening as the base stack.
I filled the arch area with perlite/vermiculite what ever its called (the little white beads) and then covered it with a layer of play sand. This keeps the beads from blowing out and is inexpensive. The layer of sand actually is higher than the rails and is just below touching the bottom of the flues.

Jim

[PARKER MAPLE]

Thanks Brookledge and FatherandSon, for the info thats just what I was looking for. Im going to go 20in back on the pan, and fill with vermiculite and cover with something. I was wondering about holding it in place. with something like a cement board. I have a few sheets on 1/2 durarock underlayment for tile flooring left over. Maybe this would work

maple rookie

[maple flats]

Not that mine is the only way, but my flue pan is 6' long but my ramp is only about 12 long. However, my firebox is 30" deep but the syrup pan is 24" front to back. This means the way mine is now, the ramp goes back to about 18" from the front (6" over firebox + 12" ramp) It works well. For holding the the vermiculite, most of mine is a fire brick laid flat but the odd areas I just sprinkled dry refractory cement on top of the vermiculite, about 1/4" and then misted the surface with water using a spray bottle, just enough to barely dampen the surface. It hardened like rock to the touch but I do not test how strong it is. The draft does not move it any.

[ejmaple]

if people are looking for vermiculite ask your local inground vinal liner pool builder. we mix vermic with portland cement to form the floor.

[MASSEY JACK]

I have used good coarse speedy dry (oil absorbent clay)from the auto parts store. It is clay and will not burn. It still looks like speedy dry except it has a little black ash on top. The rear slope is fire brick propped up at an angle with some regular chimney bricks and then the speedy dry is poured in and leveled with the top of the arch rails. There have been no problems of any kind.