stack guide wires

[thenewguy]

just a quick question, i am in the process of setting up my new evaporator. i have 20 feet of stack to put put up (2.5x10). Wonder what everyone uses for support wires/cable. would clothes line work? just a thought... also how far up the stack should i place the wires. does everyone just anchor to the ruff truses on your building?? or should i run the wires out to stakes??? Thanks!

[Haynes Forest Products]

What size bldg do you have??? Plus you dont want kids people deer or trucks hitting them so try and keep them off the ground. If your stack is 20 ft and 10 is in the shack and 10 out why do you need to wire it?

[mapleack]

When burning wood I had about 26' of stack up, and had guy wires on it. It's windy enough here at times that it was a necessity. I used stainless fence wire ancored to roof screws. I think the wire was anchored to the stack one joint down fromt the top.

[maple flats]

On my first evaporator I had support. I had a half pint (2x3) but had it on my patio so I needed extra height to get it up above the adjacent house. I used 6" stack since that was what came out the back of the unit. To get away from a shed I tilted the 12' high stack at about 10-15 degrees off verticle and leaned it towards a deck railing. I made a emt (electric metalic tubing) brace, attaching it to the railing and crossing it to form a little cradel at the other end. The stack was screwed together and this brace which leaned against the stack about 2' from the top was wired to the stack to hold it. This worked fine.
Also, many years ago I had an outdoor wood boiler and it had a 8" stack. I had to have 16' height total stack. For that I attached guy cables 4' down from the top. I had 3, attached with ss strap and ss screws to the ss cable and each was attached at the other end to whatever was convenient at about 120 degrees apart. That held fine for all of the years I had the boiler.

[thenewguy]

o.k. to save some confusion i am going to go measure all my sections and report back....

[danno]

I have about 12' of stack above the roof, and it surely would have blown over by now if I did not have it cabled. I used medium, galvenized chain (like the kind my wife uses to hang flower pots off the front porch).

I like the chain cause you have loops to lag through roof joists, bolt (ss) through the stack with a washer and can use adjustable connectors to easily adjust length. I have it bolted through stack 2 or 3' from the top.

[red maples]

you could also get cable from the box stores depending on how much you need try to get the stuff thats already done or just measure pick up some end ties and mount it on the bbuilding I wouldn't stake it to the ground!!! just amake sure you have your stack screwed to gether that will help too.

[Sugarmaker]

I have three wires on my stack and one needs replaced again. The steel cable just doesn't seem to hold up. I think its 1/8 inch. probably have about 8 feet of stack above the peak of the roof. The cables are a little insurance.
Chris

[Acer]

Farmered mine with 14 ga side tie wire. so far so good.

[thenewguy]

k, the sugar house is 14x20. from the floor to top of the ceiling is 12 feet. i have 2- 8' sections of 14" stack pipe. so i am going to have approx 14 feet of stack coming out of the roof (plus hinged rain cap piece). im thinking of attatching the cable to the top of the middle stack . so there will be about 9' of stack above the cables. any higher i think it may interfere with the rope operated stack cover. what size of cable to you reccomend?? attach 3 or 4 cables?

[brookledge]

3 wires are enough one every120 degrees. But if you want go with 4
Keith

[Southtowns27]

I used 1/2"x10' galvanized steel electrical conduit. I flattened the ends of it and drilled a hole in it to bolt through. I have two braces on my stack about 90 degrees apart, so basically, a brace 45 degrees on either side of the falline of the roof. I lagged it to the roof, and it's through bolted to the stack. It is VERY rigid, cheap to do too.

[powerdub]

am i missing something? 2-8' sections is 16'. from floor to ceiling is 12'. that leaves 4' sticking out. I have to be missing something.

[danno]

I assume his stack is starting 8 feet off the floor - above his evap and starter stack (or what ever that first section of angled stack is called).

[powerdub]

great point, the stack would not start right on the floor but even still he would be starting 2' below the ceiling. does the base stack count in the total stack height or is it included in the equation. I dont remember how all that is figured any more.

[Brent]

Something else to think about. Without wires, whatever for the wind puts on the top of the stack will be applied in the opposite direction to the juction on the evaporator. If its a steam stack that means to the hood. The roof jack is just a pivot point.

We're on the top of a hill and it sure blows here. I can't imagine the train wreck that would take place inside a sugar shack if the stack came off the arch at full boil. Not likely, but you're not likely to have a car crash today either ... but you've got insurance.

[brookledge]

If you have the right type of hood there is no weight transfered down to your hood or evap. The best type of hood in my mind is the tappered type. It basicly is a seperate stack on top of the roof. And all of the weight above the roof is beared on the roof. you can take the stack out from the underside and the rest will stay there.
There is no collars needed. It is basicly a section of pipe that is slightly tappered from bottom to top so that the stack coming up into the roof jack just needs to be cut to fit up inside the jack.
I'm not sure if I'm explaining it clearly or not but I like that this style better than those that have collars on them
Keith

[Brent]

Keith

you're correct about the right type of roof jack. Only in the last few weeks (because I need some new ones) did I notice that Leader has a roof jack that they call waterproof. It does, as you say transfer all the load of everything above the roof, to the jack. However they seem to be the only ones that off it, and after speaking to my dealer last week, I don't think they sell many. My dealer told me he had never sold one.

It seems that everyone sells the sleeve type with a very non-waterproof collar type. That type rests entirely on the evaporator parts. In fact as you tension guy wires, you add load. Caution advised.

I'll be getting the waterproof style from Leader.

[brookledge]

I know that it is the only type that I'll use
Keith

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Keith

you're correct about the right type of roof jack. Only in the last few weeks (because I need some new ones) did I notice that Leader has a roof jack that they call waterproof. It does, as you say transfer all the load of everything above the roof, to the jack. However they seem to be the only ones that off it, and after speaking to my dealer last week, I don't think they sell many. My dealer told me he had never sold one.

It seems that everyone sells the sleeve type with a very non-waterproof collar type. That type rests entirely on the evaporator parts. In fact as you tension guy wires, you add load. Caution advised.

I'll be getting the waterproof style from Leader.


I have a center mount roof jack for my evaporator from Leader and it is the best design I have ever seen and is it leak proof. I have 10" stack so on the underside where the stack goes into it is probably 11" and it tapers down to a crimped male on about 30" above that. I would hate one of the ones that have the collars on it. They are pricey, but mine is stainless and will probably last forever. 7 years old and looks like new.

[Sugarmaker]

Guy wires and roof jacks!
I was just on the sugar house roof today and replaced that broken guy wire. Not sure why it failed?? But I know that I should have put the attachment point of the guys onto the stack about a foot closer to the ground! I was just barely able to get to hooked up again. While up there I also altered the roof jack for the rear pan steam hood. The guy that made them failed to leave enough clearance for the 10 inch pipe to slip up through:) I removed about 1/4 inch of the top edge of the roof jack and it seems to be working much better.

The leak proof roof jacks that you describe from Leader sound really nice!

Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Just use stainless guide wire and shouldn't be an issue.

[Brent]

Anyone out there got the Leader waterproof roof jacks???

From the catalog picture it looks like the top is shrunk so the next section going up fits over the outside so water runs from outside to outside making it water proof.

The question I have is how do you fit the top section inside the sugar shack. On house heating woodstove pipe, they offer a telescoping section for the adjustment to fit the roof jack. I've never seen a stainless telescoping section. Is the lowest part of the roof jack so large in diameter that you can put your top section up in it a foot or two, or do you have to cut, tinsnip and bash lower sections to make it just the right length ??

[Sugarmaker]

Brandon,
Stainless wire would be the ticket. As usual I did it on the cheap with steel cable.
Chris

[Brent]

Galvanized should stand up for a long time. But I do love stainless.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have a center mount roof jack for my evaporator from Leader and it is the best design I have ever seen and is it leak proof. I have 10" stack so on the underside where the stack goes into it is probably 11" and it tapers down to a crimped male on about 30" above that. I would hate one of the ones that have the collars on it. They are pricey, but mine is stainless and will probably last forever. 7 years old and looks like new.

Brent,

I mentioned this a few posts ago.

[Brent]

Thanks Brandon that's exactly what I needed to know. I looked at your photos and I think I can see the taper in it.
So the further up you put the inside pipe the tighter it fits.
Good for everything except lifting the hood off. Maybe I'll leave it down 6" and pack the gap with ceramic blanket.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Brent,

I am referring to the smoke stack, not the steam stack. You are correct in the further up you put it into the stack, the tighter it will be and it will give more strength to the outside stack.

As far as steam stack, I would hate this kind of roof jack. I have my hood on a pulley system and I can lift the entire hood with one 1200 lb hand winch and I can lift it up a couple of feet in less than 30 seconds and back down as quick. I have a 11" stainless center mount roof jack that I have a 10" steam stack running into. The advantage to it be bigger is that it has no taper and when I raise the hood, the steam stack slides right on up thru it and this helps keep the hood in the right position as it raises. During the season, the steam stack only sticks up about 1" above the top of the roof jack and as soon as season is over, I put a 5 gallon bucket on top of the steam stack pipe the sticks just above the roof jack and put a piece of all thread thru it as it has holes on both sides of it and the bucket and put a nut on each side and it is sealed off for the year. If I raise the hood up, the bucket goes up with the stack and still keeps it sealed off and with it comes back down, bucket stays on the stack and slides perfectly down over the roof jack.

Hope this makes sense, this is about the best setup I have found and works good for me.

[Brent]

Brandon
You've almost made the Inferno into an Intesofire. Our basic rigs are almost the same. How does the ash build up
and cleanout work since you've eliminated the grates ??
The Force 5 looks pretty much like this too and they claim that most of the ash ends up at the base of the stack so their cleanout is there.

I was thinking the steam pipe could end a foot below the top of the waterproof jack, so I could raise the hood and it would just slide inside. Then I started thinking about condensation. Plan B ... for Bucket.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

With the firebrick grates with 3/4" holes that I have used in the past, I got maybe a gallon of ash in below the firebrick grates for the entire season. With this new setup, I don't expect a quart of ash for an entire season. I don't have a cleanout at the base stack and don't expect a new for one, and if so, it only takes a few seconds to lift the base stack off. It is about 13' of stainless, but I can handle it.

Be interesting to see, hopefully I won't have the problems the Force 5's are having, but I haven't made any ridiculously high claims like they did.

[Brent]

From what I've heard the claims we're so exagerated but it was impossible to get them simultaneously. You either boiled to beat hell or went 45 minutes between firing. Just not in the same hour.

What we all want is the majic recipe that will give us 2000 GPH on one armful of wood every half hour. I think we'll move the peg a lot at first, but then it will become very difficult to find improvements with the simple teting methods available to us.

[maple flats]

By the nature of what we need to do, we can't push the efficiency of burn too much. We must have fast boil, and by the laws of thermodynamics we can't get there with no lost heat up the stack. We just get the boil to what we like and then test new ideas without comprimising the boil. Without being overly wasteful, we have several months to cut wood but only 4-6-8?(I wish) weeks to burn it. The boil rate in my opinion is more important than the wood used but I still try to improve efficiency to save wood. (I have 2 years ahead but I could sell some rather than burn it).

[MASSEY JACK]

As I understand it, the tapered stack that does not leak is meant for smoke stacks. I like the idea of no leaks with that style. But.... 2 things come to my mind.1) Like someone else said,you have to lift the base stack to get it over the lip on the rear of the arch...this means you can't have a perfectly tight fit up top. If you have a low roof then you may sacrifice draft with cool air entering part way up your stack.
2.)As I said it does not fit exactly tight and it is inside the building and I have a truss frame building. What if we get some high winds and have a downdraft here in the hills--could I possibly get some sparks inside??Not sure.
I put in the style roof jack that has the storm collar on the pipe. I don't like it cause my arch sometimes gets wet when it rains. I took the pipe with collar attached off and had the collar welded to the pipe. When I get it back on I will see what happens. I also wanted this kind of roof jack so it would vent some heat. It is a 14" roof jack with a 12 inch pipe.
I think the tapered roof jack would have a real problem with condensation running down inside the building on the outside of the pipe. The steam would condense in the stack outside the building(coldest part) and run down. It would then follow to the bottom edge of the jack pipe and drip off because it is not connected to the lower steam stack tightly.