Bascom's Seminar Notes

[Brokermike]

Not sure how many traders went but I did, with my wife, for the last day of our honeymoon!

I thought I'd share some cool stuff that we learned:

The 30p tubing works best with Leader taps and connectors, something about the distance between the barbs being different. Anyway with the Leader stuff suppossedly it doesn't pull out like it does when you mix and match

Them new leader 7/16" stubby spouts have a mitered edge so they don't bugger up the fingers on your check valve.

The new check valves have a softener added and a small redesign to the fingers to have less problems.

There is no perfect vacuum pump, different pumps for different applications (there that solves that debate! :lol: )

Drill your tap holes dead level

It doesn't matter what side of the tree you tap on, theoretically if the tree is healthy it should be producing the same internal pressure throughout

Most importantly for newbies like myself I learned that many of the things I grew up doing when helping some of the old timers in my area are no longer considered best practices.

I also learned that when buying supplis make sure that you are buying the upgraded version of the product, when buying my new stubbies I noticed that the shelves were stocked with the old version that did not have the mitered edge, I had to ask to break into a new case to get the new version. I also didn't buy my check valves because I had no way to know if they were the improved version or not.

Anyone else want to chime in?

[red maples]

I did not go to the seminar. But wanted to. What is the reason for putting the tap holes level instead of at an angle up? I guess if your using vac with check valves it doesn't matter. wouldn't it be safer to just put a slight angle?

[Buffalo Creek Sugar Camp]

If the taphole is level, then when you drill the hole in the tree the taphole is perfectly round. If the taphole is drilled at an angle, the opening in the tree is not perfectly round , so the tap may not seat as well. This is especially important with vacuum.

[Maplewalnut]

I did not go to the seminar. But wanted to. What is the reason for putting the tap holes level instead of at an angle up? I guess if your using vac with check valves it doesn't matter. wouldn't it be safer to just put a slight angle?

It is a risk/benefit situation. A far greater chance to drill an 'oval' hole with drill bit slightly upwards vs straight in. This oval hole of course will cause leaks both on vacuum and gravity. Sap extraction is all aboout tree pressure. The pressure of the tree will more than compensate for the lack of a traditional slightly upward tap hole.

Tree Pressure guidelines
0-12 no sap
13-18 decent run
19-24 great run
25+ open the flood gates!

[markcasper]

Where did the drilling level hole come from? I have always learned to drill at a slight upright angle. Who is it? Who came up with this idea in the last week?

[Brokermike]

I had always drilled an upward hole also, but I won't this year. I guess the brain trust at leader has experimented with proper seating of the check valves and health spouts. It seems that it is much more likely to get a slightly irregular hole when drilling at an angle, the benefit of the small downhill flow is offset by the poor seating of the spout. Especially combined with vacuum the tree is creating way more PSI than it needs to push sap over a small step to get in the spout. After learning more about the internal pressure in maples I can see how this would definately be the case. I also asked my brother, an arborist and silviculture aficionado, and he agreed that the angle should be just about irrelevant given the internal flow of the sap under pressure. As he said it's not like your tapping a rain gutter where you hope to catch water as it flows down, you are tapping a low pressure water pipe where the fluid squirts out as soon as the pressure builds, and the pressure builds when the sap flows.

[red maples]

yes very true I guess as long as its level it shouldn't be a problem.

[Parker]

hhhmmm.There is always going to be a space in the drill hole-spile interface, Lets call it the "sap pocket" ..I kinda like the idea of drilling my holes on an angle caus when the tree freezes solid I want the sap to be in the line,,not in the sap pocket,,,,sap freezes and expands,,pushes the spile out a littel then you have a vacuum leak,,,I have had this problem with the older sanitary spout adaptors,,I dont like going thru my woods haveing to "tighten up" all my splies....any other opinions on this?

[red maples]

yeah but if you think about it the outside temp is colder than the inside of the tree and the tree will still drip under colder conditions under vac right? so the lines freeze up before the tree will, so it will still drip a little and as the sap freezes its way through the line the last thing to freeze is the sap at the tap hole and then you will get ice in the tap hole anyway. So it shouldn't matter. hope that makes sense. it does in my head anway.

[BryanEx]

Is there still a benefit to drilling level for traditional metal 7/16's spiles and hanging buckets?

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

im with PARKER on this 1

[Amber Gold]

Other things that caught my attention are the tapping guidelines.
8" tree 1 tap
20" tree 2 taps
30" tree 3 taps if 50% crown of tree is crown

With these guidelines, he expects to get 20 gal per tap every season. What I don't know is how he treats trees which fork low to the ground. If each fork is greater than 10", does each get a tap?

Also, set up all branch mainlines w/ 3/4" pipe so making repairs is easier. Max mainline length is 1000' and spaced every 200'. Using this guideline, you typically won't exceed the 250 tap capacity of a 3/4" mainline.

[TapME]

Makes good sence Parker, the old way works so why screw it up.

[Gary R]

When drilling at an angle the hole is elongated. It is bigger top to bottom than side to side. Experiment on a 2X4. At a slight angle, there may not be much of a difference, but there is. The tap you are putting into the tree is a tappered shaft. The hole in the tree is a straight cylinder. At any angle your still going to have sap sitting in the hole. We're looking for the tightest connection without splitting the wood. I've been doing the angle, I'll change to straight in this season.

[Amber Gold]

I'd drill it level, the vacuum will suck the sap out of the tree so it doesn't freez in the hole.

[Maplewalnut]

Gary- that is exactly the analogy given. Hammer a nail in a piece of wood straight, pull out and then hammer one in at a slight angle and pull out.... compare holes!

Makes sense to me- I'm drilling straight this season

[red maples]

Drilling straight as well.

8" what happen to 12" min. 9" is my cut off on a healthy tree. but generally do 10" but if its its 8" now I can add in alot of trees.

[jcb]

I my opinion, the hole will be the same size angle or not. unless the angle of the hole is way to much it will make a good seal. I think what happens is you stand a greater chance of making a bad start to the hole at an angle then you do straight. by bad start I mean the dill bit slides up before it strats to cut the hole. Or you dont keep the drill at the same angle while drilling the hole ,that is where the leaks come from.

[TapME]

Are these steel spiles or plastic, the nail thing doesn't work for me when comparing to a plastic spile. It's soft plastic and it will form to the hole when taped in if they are steel or stainless I could see the reason. If you are having problems with shape of the whole try using a smaller bit by a 1/64. Just make sure your bit is sharp and you'll be fine. What do I know. Just my 2 cents.

[Acer]

I would think of all the things you can tweak in the sugarbush tap hole angle might just be the one variable that has the least impact on production.

[3% Solution]

Hi guys,
I also went to the seminar, I thought there was some good info there.
Now about the tap hole being elongated if drilled at an angle.
Remember when you put the stack through the roof of the sugarhouse?
Was the hole round?
I think when these folks tell us about things like this, it's to help out and to pass along info which has been brought to light.
We don't have to do anything but what we are doing right now.
It's all your choise.
Myself, I'll tap level.
Just a few pennies from the porch.

[PATheron]

Is that why I only made a quart per tap last year? I was hoping there was a reason other than I just suck.

[Thad Blaisdell]

Actually I think it is because your sugarhouse isnt big enough

[PATheron]

Its little but it packs a big punch

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Punch? Is that the name of the new evaporator?

[DrTimPerkins]

Is that why I only made a quart per tap last year? I was hoping there was a reason other than I just suck.

Can't be that.....if you sucked enough you'd have made lots of syrup.

[PATheron]

This year Im going to try to suck a little harder. Im setting up my system for another two freeze season and if we get three Ill really be in the bigtime!

[BryanEx]

Can't be that.....if you sucked enough you'd have made lots of syrup.

Dr. Tim... any research or other scientific data on this debate? I use gravity fed buckets and "gravity" implies flow down hill but the round hole argument seems to make sense. I don't want to mess with what works but if it can work better I'm all for it.

Thanks!

[Amber Gold]

Who would've though out of all the topics discussed, something as simple as whether to tap level or at an angle would generate so much debate.

Other things of note from my notes:
a sap lift will generate 5-15% loss in production
keep mainlines <1000' long
3/4" mainline = 250 taps
1" mainline = 500 taps
wet line sizing
3/4" = 600 taps
1" = 1000 taps
1.25" = 1800 taps
1.5" = 3200 taps
2" = 6000 taps

run mainlines and wet/dry system at 2-5% and run it across the hill instead of straight down. This create less turbulence in the system which makes vacuum transfer more efficient. Also by running main's across the hill, the laterals run down the slope at a higher pitch allowing them to evacuate more quickly.
8 taps max per lateral

In regards to the tree pressure data, if running 15" of vac. it acts like it increases the tree's pressure by 5psi. For example, if a tree on gravity would have 17 psi of pressure (fair sap run), 15" of vacuum would make the tree act like it had 23 psi of pressure (good sap run) 20" of vacuum increases the pressure by 10 psi, so the tree would act like it had 27 psi and jumps it into a great sap run. This explains why a typical sap run for a system on vacuum is 1 gal per day per tap.

The above also explains why multiple holes yield less sap. Every hole (outlet) lowers the internal pressure of the tree, reducing its ability to move sap. I'm trying to think of an analogy, but one escapes me at the moment.

Typical tap count per acre
all maples ~65 taps per acre
mixed hardwood 40-60

I think this covers everything I remember.

[twofer]

...

Typical tap count per acre
all maples ~65 taps per acre
mixed hardwood 40-60

...



This makes me feel a bit better about my final tap count for the first section of bush that I plan on setting up vacuum on. It's about 5 acres and has 280 taps which puts me at 56 taps per acre. Not too shabby for an old sugarbush that hasn't been managed in a few decades.

BTW I'm also heading your advice and throwing out the double sap ladder plan and putting the releaser and pump down at the main collection point.

[powerdub]

I would like to comment on the sap draining out of the lines at the end of the day and please comment if you have a different view. If you put a straw in a cup of water and put your finger over the end, pull it out and the water stays in the straw. that is a tight system. I dont think my lines drain at the end of the day and i dont want them to.

one other question, for all of those that have had or have tubing systems on gravity
: Have you ever seen your sap run backwards up the line and for how long?

[red maples]

I am not sure I understand. I only shut my vac down when the lines are frozen solidand there is no sap coming out of the mainline into the manifold. then I will shut it down and restart it in the morning. other wise it pretty much runs 24/7 so there really isn't a chance for the sap to run out at the end of the day.

[DrTimPerkins]

I dont think my lines drain at the end of the day and i dont want them to.

Absolutely right. In a good tight system with vacuum, the lines do not "drain" at the end of a run when things freeze up. There is no recent scientific evidence that I am aware of in regards to straight or sloping tapholes, however it does make a lot of intuitive sense that straight tapholes will have round holes and slanted holes will have ovals. With higher vacuum, these small factors really do start to create leaks and can affect production. The effect is likely to be fairly small, but even a few inches of vacuum at the taphole can make a 5-10% impact on sap yield.

[Moshers Maples]

I saw the small hammer that was shown to us at the seminar at home depot for $2.00.

[PATheron]

You guys were talking about posative pressure on the tree when the sap runs. Im sure The Dr. knows the ins and outs of all this but couple years ago I had a funny thing happened and it really surprised me. I was tapping road side trees and running line from the trees down to buckets on the ground. I was on a two tap tree so I tapped it and drove the spiles in and it had a piece of 5/16 between the two taps solid. (I was kind of using scraps) Then I got a piece long enough to run down to the bucket and came back to the piece beween the taps. I put my two handed tool on it and cut it to cut in a t to hook the piece up that went down to the bucket. When I did sap sprayed all over me. I dont mean just a little but a lot. That piece was only there on the tree a few minutes max. I never expected any pressure like that and was really surprised when it happened. Had to wipe my glasses off. Theron

[powerdub]

i'll never forget the day we were tapping and the sun was shining, the sap was running a little and we were enjoying watching the sap running down the tubing as we went. All of a sudden the clouds came up and the snow started to fall, the kind of snow with the big wet flakes. The sap poured out of the trees like i've never seen. My helper would try to plug the hole in the tree with his finger intil we could put the spout in and it would squirt out in seconds. i wish we could measure that pressure cause it sprayed a ways in seconds.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I picked up one of these the other day when I was at harbor freight. It is about the size of the picture, nice and compact and sure fits good inside the tool back I carry for repairs, doesn't add a lot of weight and it small enough to fit into a pocket when tapping or other uses.

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-oz-stubby-claw-hammer-95929.html

[DrTimPerkins]

i wish we could measure that pressure cause it sprayed a ways in seconds.

We measure stem sap pressure all the time. See http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/?Page=treemet1.html&SM=cammenu.html in the spring and you'll see the near real-time measurements of tempertures (air, branch, stem at several depths) as well as pressure and flow.

Where does the pressure come from you might ask. Simple way to think of it. A tree is a series of pipes all stacked together. Even simpler if we consider it to be one big pipe stuck into the ground. Fill the pipe with water up to the top (maybe 80' tall). When it's frozen, drill a hole and nothing happens. When it thaws, the sap will squirt out the hole under pressure (35 psi....about what is in your car tire) caused by the standing column of water (gravity). So why doesn't it come squirting out the hole like a hose then? Because trees aren't one big pipe, they're lots of little pipes, and that causes resistance to water movement, so the sap flow and pressure relief are slowed down. Plus the tree isn't thawing all at the same time.

Now it isn't really that simple....lots of other things going on, but simple pressure due to gravity explains the majority of the pressure for a period of time after the tree thaws.

[red maples]

so with gravity vs. pressure in that sense,(which is an easy concept) there would be more pressure the lower you tap on the tree. From what I have read it doesn't matter where you tap on the tree.

Also I think it was amber gold said they are tapping 8" trees with 1 tap. what are the toughts on tree size. I thougt things were going more conservative with 12" trees being the new min. opposed to 10". and they are talking 8. I have a few small trees tapped but they are marked for thinning.

[Amber Gold]

What I thought interesting about the tree pressure is it explains why on nice, beautiful sunny days it'll run OK, but you get a cloudy, warm day and it'll run like crazy. The big run we had this season was like that...really a pretty crummy day but boy did it run. On clear days, there's a high pressure front in and the tree has to overcome the additional pressure for it to run. On those crappy days, the air pressure is lower and makes the tree's job easier.

[ennismaple]

so with gravity vs. pressure in that sense,(which is an easy concept) there would be more pressure the lower you tap on the tree. From what I have read it doesn't matter where you tap on the tree.

Studies have been done on this by measuring yield at various heights. You do get the most sap at the bottom of the tree.

[Beweller]

Unless you wobble the drill, the cross section of the hole normal to the axis is round, regardless of the angle the hole makes with the tree. Which is what is important.

Did someone demonstrate that you are more likely to wobble the drill when drilling at a slight angle?

[Brokermike]

not true a hole drilled at an angle will have a larger circumfrance(sp?) you are impacting a greater surface area

[Thad Blaisdell]

The outside edge of the hole may be bigger because of the the way it entered the tree but your hole is still going to be round. The spout will still fit tight. I can tell you that this year I will be drilling 8000 holes and I will not worry about straight or slightly up hill.

[jcb]

I my opinion, the hole will be the same size angle or not. unless the angle of the hole is way to much it will make a good seal. I think what happens is you stand a greater chance of making a bad start to the hole at an angle then you do straight. by bad start I mean the dill bit slides up before it strats to cut the hole. Or you dont keep the drill at the same angle while drilling the hole ,that is where the leaks come from.

This is what I am saying, you are not using a bigger drill bit so if you keep it steady you will have the same round hole angle or stright

[TapME]

Whoever started this has on heck of a magic trick going.
Bewelled, you understand as I do.
Any hole drilled by a round bit will be round period. If you cut the plane of that hole at say 10* and seperate the 2 halfs yes the angle of cut will have a oblong or oval look at that point. If you take and drill a hole at a 10* angle and then disect that plane at 10* you will have a circle at the cut. The point here is someone is changing geometry, just becauce the apperance looks like a oval doesn't mean it's an oval.
As for drilling holes in a tree, as long as the sap comes out is all that matters is it not. Just my 2 cents (or have they made them oval too). :)

[red maples]

yes I understand what you are saying. if you drill ahole straight and look at it straight its round. if you drill it at an angle and look at it at an angle the hole will be round. but if you look at the angled hole straight then it is oval.

after I tapped last year and vac was up and running. I took a walk to check for leaks as we all need to do and walked each lateral and had maybe 3-4 leaking tap holes beacuse the spouts didn't seat for what ever reason. so that is <2% and I pulled them and reset them and they sealed and were fine for the rest of the season. I drilled at an angle like everyone else. I Don't think it will make much difference anyway you look at it.

if you look at your spout when it is seated in the tap hole, the bottom side of the spout will be flush with the tree and if you were to draw a line perpendicular to the diection of the spout and tap hole not the tree.(hole being at an angle) then therre will be space at the top side not even with the bottom side of the spout. if that makes sense so what the are saying is that there is more possibility for there to be a leaky tap hole. if that makes sense.

[Gerryfamily5]

The problem guys is bark is not a seal, only good solid wood will hold a vac. So by drilling at an angle(the steeper the more it's a problem) the botttom of the spout hits solid wood but the top is in the bark or only maginally seated. In order to seat it must be driven much harder. With lower vac levels the leakage is minimal but at higher levels it becomes a big problem.A hole drilled with a bit will always be round but the angle ia a problem. All my holes will be drilled straight in. Bring on the biggggggg sap again.:)

[TapME]

What angle do you drill the holes at? Mine are about 5* and have always been and always will be. Gerry drove by on rt 11 last week was that your sugar house couple of miles from Limington?
I'm going to do what I have done for years again this year and next. Aparently when you get to vacuum it's a whole different game.

[twofer]

yes I understand what you are saying. if you drill ahole straight and look at it straight its round. if you drill it at an angle and look at it at an angle the hole will be round. but if you look at the angled hole straight then it is oval.

after I tapped last year and vac was up and running. I took a walk to check for leaks as we all need to do and walked each lateral and had maybe 3-4 leaking tap holes beacuse the spouts didn't seat for what ever reason. so that is <2% and I pulled them and reset them and they sealed and were fine for the rest of the season. I drilled at an angle like everyone else. I Don't think it will make much difference anyway you look at it.

if you look at your spout when it is seated in the tap hole, the bottom side of the spout will be flush with the tree and if you were to draw a line perpendicular to the diection of the spout and tap hole not the tree.(hole being at an angle) then therre will be space at the top side not even with the bottom side of the spout. if that makes sense so what the are saying is that there is more possibility for there to be a leaky tap hole. if that makes sense.

Agreed

IMO it seems if you drill off from perpendicular to a straight trunk one side of the semi-circle will contact the bit before the opposite and elongate the hole.

[DrTimPerkins]

Studies have been done on this by measuring yield at various heights. You do get the most sap at the bottom of the tree.

True....for gravity sap collection at least. Under vacuum there is little difference. Of course if the snow is 4 ft deep you can't hang buckets too low, or have your tubing under the snow level.

[Brent]

I do start my holes at 90 degrees then tilt a little one the bit is established. But, forgetting the geometry, I can see no reason to have a tilt with a check vavle. I'm going to drill them all straight this season.

Last year I found I had to re-seat the check valves many times. A real pain. I hope the softener they put in will help them stay stuck. I could get 1 to 1-1/2" more vac on 600 taps after trugding throught he bush to whack them all in again.

There may be a slight advantae to a level hole to get the ball in the check valve to re-seat.

[Amber Gold]

As I said before, out of all the topics discussed at the seminar, whether to tap level or an angle gets the most debate...surprising.

Say you have a short spur mainline coming off a mainline to get a pocket of maples, Brad said to bring the spur into the primary line at the top via a Y. Does anyone know why? I would've though coming in from the side so the sap wouldn't be falling across the vacuum stream and also causing turbulence in the primary line as it falls into the sap flow. I have two cases of this and want to make sure I get it right.

[Sbascom]

Bascom Maple Farms is now on facebook, with a few pictures from the seminar and some pictures of the new building going up.

[maplecrest]

sam i could not find it, goes straight to your web sites

[red maples]

its there, go to facebook and type in bascom maple it will pop with a picture of the logo click on that and it will take you to their page.

[Cardigan99]

[QUOTE=Amber Gold;117914]As I said before, out of all the topics discussed at the seminar, whether to tap level or an angle gets the most debate...surprising.
QUOTE]

Yeah, you'd think there would be a ton of discussion on tapping 8" trees because no one does that right? LOL.

Josh did they have a rational for that?

[red maples]

yeah I asked that question about the 8" trees 2 times and got no response!!!

[Brokermike]

pretty sure he wandered through a whole big thing about how you're better off tapping an 8" tree with the new health spouts/ Check Valves than you are overtapping an old 36" tree. Simply put an 8" tree will grow and heal very quickly. They also talked about tapping 6" trees if they are cull trees. They were specific about not tapping any deeper than 1.5" ever.

Thats just what I remember.

I also thought that they could have been more concise, the whole thing could have been 2/3 of the time it took. JMHO

[Homestead Maple]

yeah I asked that question about the 8" trees 2 times and got no response!!!
I was thinking that Brad said that he had tapped a tree as small as 6", hoping to kill it because it needed to be thinned sometime but the tree hasn't died. He said that the smaller trees grow faster and create tap able faster and heal faster.

[DrTimPerkins]

Yeah, you'd think there would be a ton of discussion on tapping 8" trees because no one does that right?

OK....I have to tread very lightly here, so bear with me.

There are published guidelines for what you "should" tap. These are often somewhat conservative, because if we say to only tap 10" trees and up, people will tap 6" trees (that's close enough right?). Besides....we're using smaller spouts now, so we can tap smaller trees -- right? NO...that isn't the case.

Tapping guidelines are based upon averages for tree ring width growth, the idea being that you should not "make unavailable" (by staining) more wood than the tree can grow back in the following growing season. The stained wood is no longer functional in terms of water (or sap) transport or for storage of sugars. The tapping guidelines tend to be pretty good for most trees. It is at the ends (really big and really small tree) where they tend to have problems.

For very large trees there is sometimes very little actual ring width added each year, so you need to be careful not to overtap. I know it is tempting to hang 4-5 buckets on that big old tree, but you very well might be affecting its growth if you do.

Most small trees will have relatively decent ring widths, UNLESS THEY ARE SUPRESSED (understory trees). If you haven't thinned in 10+ yrs, tree growth may be too low to sustain tapping. They might also not be able to deal with the sugar extraction rates under high vacuum, but that's a different story that remains to be fully written (we're working on it). How can you get an idea of growth rates -- look at taphole closure. If the tapholes in small tree are taking more than a couple of years to close (with a 5/16" spout), don't tap them, or thin them out a bit. Don't ever tap these small trees with a 7/16" spout.

Some argue that they are going to thin someday, but in the meantime, why not thin them with a tapping bit. I have no problem with that concept, but leave the trees that you aren't going to thin (your future crop trees) alone (don't tap them) until they are large enough and the crowns have been released so that they are putting on good growth. Too many people say they're going to thin, but never get around to it. Proper thinning in maple stands is very advantageous to growth and to increased sap yield. So before you run out there and start tapping every tree 6" and up, go out and thin them first. You'll get far better results in the long run.

[red maples]

thank you for the clarification. I will stick to my personal guide lines then. which is 10" min for most trees with the occational 8-9 inch tree tapped pending health. I don't think I would ever tap anything under 8 inches it just doesn't seem worth it, cull tree or not. Your not going to get a high amount of sugar in that sap anyway.

My thinning is slow beacuse I only take out what I need, Soft wood for sugaring and hard wood for the house heat!!! It's a little slower than going right in but I belive the trees will be better off because they will be exposed to the light slower and have a reduced risk of sun scald. So little release cuts here and there, it may take me several years to get through. I am currently working on the denser parts first and dead or severly stressed standing timber.

but I have agree I see some big maples around with 4-5 even 6 buckets hanging on them and I cringe!!! I pulled over to check to see what size taps and of course they were 7/16. the tree looked like it had been tapped that way for years it was pretty much swiss cheese!!!

[DrTimPerkins]

I should have also noted that the cut-off in our two primary production areas is 12", with the occasional 10-12" tree tapped as well. One tap per tree regardless of size (for several reasons). However, I'm sure there are some who've seen photos or visited and seen smaller trees tapped. This is true. We do occasionally tap smaller (6-10") trees. This typically occurs in two instances: 1) we're doing research on the impacts of tapping small trees or 2) we intend to cut down the trees as part of the research (and thus prefer to sacrifice small trees rather than large trees).

[Tweegs]

Late to the game on this and trying to get caught up.
We just received the Maple syrup digest the other day. In there was a short blurb by Dr. Perkins about the CV’s, too short for my feeble mind to comprehend.

There are some very intriguing claims in the advertisements about increases in sap yield, but not much wording covering the concept of the check valves and how they actually increase yield.

It is also noted that they can increase yields on gravity systems, which has really piqued my curiosity.

I assume that the CV’s were a topic at the Bascom outing as they have been mentioned in passing a couple of times in this thread, and I thought it might be helpful to keep all of the information from that seminar in one thread, as opposed to starting a new one.

Since a search here on the forums didn’t produce the results I was looking for, can someone please explain in detail how these things work?

[Homestead Maple]

I was thinking that Brad said that he had tapped a tree as small as 6", hoping to kill it because it needed to be thinned sometime but the tree hasn't died. He said that the smaller trees grow faster and create more tap able wood faster and heal faster.
Brad's guide lines were more conservative when it comes to larger trees. He didn't put two taps in anything smaller than 22" in diameter, and a tree that is 30" in diameter and has at least 50% of it's height in good, live crown, he would allow 3 taps.

[Amber Gold]

TWEEGS, CV's have been discussed in-depth in other threads. In the tubing section do a search for check valves and you'll get all the information you need.

The justification for tapping 8" trees is the trees are younger and can better cope with tap holes...kind of how a young kid's broken bones heal more quickly than a 50 year olds bones. I guess the debate is if this is acceptable at 8" or 10" dbh.

[Gary R]

Tweeg's, check this thread out. A lot of talk happened last year on the CV's.

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=8869

I think the tap hole question was the first question on this thread. If someone else brought another one up I'm sure we'd all jump all over that one:)

[Tweegs]

Tweeg's, check this thread out. A lot of talk happened last year on the CV's.

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=8869

I think the tap hole question was the first question on this thread. If someone else brought another one up I'm sure we'd all jump all over that one:)

Sorry guys, my bad, didn't dig deep enough.

Thanks Gary, that's what I was looking for!