Mainline through culvert

[batsofbedlam]

Has anyone had any experience with running a mainline under a town road through a 12" pipe culvert?
I am looking at a new sugarbush with a lot of potential: nice slope uphill from road; 700 trees in 25 acres mostly more than 24" diameter.
Rather than have the power company drop a power line for a new meter, it would be easier to run a vacuum and dry line under the road to the property owners home.
I'm concerned that the line would freeze and take to long to thaw thus cutting my sap production.
I would like to hear from anyone with any experience with this dilemma.

[red maples]

oh thank you for asking I have a similar issue. I tap my neighbors property with gravity tubing but would like to set-up vac over there. its only 125 taps or so but it is across the street and the road gets busier ever year. it has only been paved about 10-15 years but its good cut through but anyway don't know If I would run into trouble with a sap ladder lift that close to the water especially if the water get high which does in the spring and the bottom of the ladder would be under water. worried about sucking water in the line contaminating sap. now that I think about it it might not be a good idea.

depending on your set-up and vac and distance from the vac set-up point etc. what about a separate line and separate releaser and just run the vac line through the culvert with the tank and releaser on the other side you just have to collect the sap from that point.

[maplecrest]

you answered your own question. dry line. run wet dry thru under road. when wet froze will run thu dry line make wet smaller like 3/4 for 700 taps will thaw faster. 1 1/2 dry for vac transfer over liquid

[ennismaple]

Make sure there's lots of pitch on the line. A fellow producer in our area does the same thing in his bush to pick up several hundred taps on the other side of the road. This past spring it froze up on him early in the season and didn't thaw out again until the end. Wet/dry will definitely help reduce the chance of freeze-up.

[batsofbedlam]

Theoretically, shouldn't the mainline be empty because the vacuum is running?

[red maples]

Theoretically, shouldn't the mainline be empty because the vacuum is running?

only if its a wet dry line. but with a single line the sap has to go through the culvert so how could it empty. and as the temps drop the line will freeze all the way through beacuse with the vac the trees will still be dripping, until the line is frozen tight. and the sun will never hit the pipe in the culvert. and will be colder from ice on teh outside and being several feet under ground towards the middle of the road.

[Tmeeeh]

I've been running 3/4 under roads in eight different places for 15 years. It works pretty well. It does require maintenance to avoid problems (freezing).
Our wet/dry line runs parallel to and below the road and we tap both sides of the road. It's really nice to be able to drive right through the sugar woods. The risk of freeze ups happens early in the season when it's colder. The lines freeze when snow buries the pipeline where it goes into and comes out of the culvert..Keep the snow shoveled off so the daylight warms it. The lines also freeze when the culvert fills with ice. This happens sometimes after a wet fall and a cold snow less winter. We have uses a hot water pressure washer to melt out the culverts before the season begins. (This happened only once in 15 years) The solution to this is to lay dry culverts that don't carry water, 1-1/2 pipe works. Bury them deep so they are below frost and don't plow the snow off the culvert area until the season begins. We also use 4", and 12" culverts. Run the 3/4 sap line inside a section of 1-1/2 pipe where it goes through the culvert it only takes a couple gallons of hot water trickled through the 1-1/2 line to thaw things out. As a last resort cut the 3/4 pipe, pull it out of the culvert and lay it in the sun for 15 minutes. We check our pipelines daily and fix problems right away. Last year was a warm year and we had no freeze ups and made .62 gallons of syrup per tap.

[Brent]

If you want to be sure to keep it open when you get moisture in it and a freeze up I'd suggest looking into something like what is marketed in Canada as Heat-Line. Most folks use them at cottages that need to draw water from a lake or river in the winter.

This is a heating cable like what is used to de-ice roofs and eavestroughing. This stuff however, comes in a kit that includes a gland to get the line into the piping. Put it in there and protect the plug. If you get a freeze up take a generator and a beer or two down to the culvert. Plug in and sit back a bit until it thaws out.

[red maples]

I use those in the SH to keep the lines from freezing when I need to get an early start.

[batsofbedlam]

I contacted a couple of the companies that make heat cables for water lines and they state that the heat cables are meant for pressurized water lines and might melt plastic pipe if the pipe is dry.
Anyone have any experience with this? The two cables I have looked at are rated at 5 watts per foot, which doesn't seem enough to melt the plastic pipe.
I will be using 1 1/2 inch wet line and 1 1/2 inch dry line.

[Brent]

I have used these heaters in pvc pipes at our cottage for 15 years. I use a phone line to dial up and turn the electric power on, with the pipes drained and dry. The Heatline has thermostatic control built in to different sections so it will not melt the pipe. I think they will ship direct to you. If not we ship to the USA every day and I could get one for you.

http://www.heatline.com/

[batsofbedlam]

Thanks for that information. I actually talked to there sales people in Carnarvon, ON. I was discouraged by their quote of $715 for a 50 foot length of Retroline, but maybe that the price for a product that does the job.

[Randy Brutkoski]

How many taps do you have running into that 1 1/2 wet line. If its under 1400 taps you probably only need 1 1/4 wet line Let the 1 1/2 dry do all of the work. And plus you will save alot of money.

[sapman]

Are you thinking about external heat tapes at all? We always recommend Frost-tex brand, and I don't think that will overheat an empty pipe.

[batsofbedlam]

This sugarbush will be 700-800 taps. I have looked at both external heat tapes and internal ones also. The internal heat tapes use Philmac fittings to gat the wire inside. I'm not sure how they work under vacuum.

[maplecrest]

first of all if under vac and vac is running all the time it will not freeze. unless dead level. what sort of pitch can you get thru that culvert? with the wet dry system if the wet is froze then it will come down the dry. plumbing in a spare wet line to turn on if wet freezes and will not thaw out would be more practical than power to a heat tape. the other thing that come to mind, how much water flows thru this culvert? water all the time? how deep is the water?if you have water flowing all the time put the wet line in the flowing water and it will not freeze.

[batsofbedlam]

I thought that the vacuum would keep the line from freezing, but I wasn't sure. The culvert has been dry all summer and fall. It probably never has a lot of water in it. The pitch is slight, but a 24" diameter pipe gives me something to play with. I will have quick disconnects on either end of the wet line, so changing it shouldn't be a big deal.