Amish evaporator manufacture

[Gary R]

A couple of us have been talking about this evaporator manufacture. I got interested after hearing about him from Jasonl6. The company name is A&A Metal Shop. It is located at 464 Collins Hill rd. Ulysses, PA 16948. A couple of traders from NW PA went to Ohio and saw one boiling. It was a 30" X 8', raised flue with a preheater and forced air. It boiled at 90 GPH with water. The place in Ohio is near a dealer I started using. He had 5 evaporators in his shop. Most were sold. I took a road trip last weekend to visit A&A Metal Shop.

Here are some of the specs on the evaporators he builds. He uses all 304, 24ga. B2 finish. All joints are crimped and lead free soldered inside. He does no welding. He does not use bright annealed finish because they have a hard time soldering it. He gave me a couple of price sheets as he had an increase last week. He makes from 1/2 pint types all the way to 5'X16', drop or raised flue. I was told the price on his sheet includes brick or blanket, floats, base stack and enough smoke stack for twice the length of the arch. The pans are reversable also. The piping is copper and the union from the float to the pan is a rubber "furnco" A 2'X6', drop flue starts at $2000. A 5'X16' raised flue is $8000. There are options to have an air tight front, hood and preheater. Any piece or part that he makes is for sale. His price on stainless pipe is 1/3 of whats in Leaders catalog. He highers a foundry that casts his 24" fronts, doors, grates and base stack support (collar). The castings look very nice. He has grates cast that are similar to Leader grates. Anyone looking to replace some grates or want to add an air tight front may want to check him out.

These aren't the shinneyest rigs out there but they probably are the cheapest. Some may want to check them out. Unfourtunately, being Amish means no phone. You would probably have to mail him or stop in.

[jasonl6]

Hey Gary I was gonna email you the new price sheet tomorrow that I picked up today. I ordered my pans today 3X7 raised flue and 3X3 syrup pan came to $2900. I know several people in the area that use him as there suppliers. His stuff is soldered and if that bothers people then you'll have to look somplace else. He does garantee his pans and has men standing by during sugaring season should somone need a pan fixed or resoldered.

He is having an annual auction the 28th of aug. Anyone that likes that short of thing should check him out and enjoy the auction that weekend.

Jason

[Paddymountain]

I saw one of these evaporators in NY It was a 2x8 ,as far as I could tell the
guy was happy with it ,and had used it for a couple of years. It looked to me like it would get the job done and the price sounds right.

[steam maker]

dont let the straw hat fool u. i bet theres as phone somewhere on the premises. or a cell phone in his pocket. dealt with the amish quite a bit in lancaster county and they have them. just cant be in there house.

[jasonl6]

dont let the straw hat fool u. i bet theres as phone somewhere on the premises. or a cell phone in his pocket. dealt with the amish quite a bit in lancaster county and they have them. just cant be in there house.

They have an community phone someplace they use (neighbors). They don't accept calls but do make them. No cell phone, obviously you have never been to potter county :lol:

[steam maker]

can say never been to potter but have been to the sale barn in new holland and watched them pull it out of there pocket

[heus]

In our area they have phone booths on a non-Amish neighbor's property, or a telephone box right at the utility pole just off their property. Yes they use cell phones , too.

[Randy Brutkoski]

Its funny that you brought up potter county. I have been deer hunting 2 seperate times there. 1 time in Coutersport and the other time near the Alegheni ****, but i forgot the name of that town. But I remember hunting in the Alegheni national forest and there were small oil rigs everywhere in the woods. And holy cow do they get alot of snow there. I can remember 1 thing is that there were maples everywhere.

[Rhino]

In my opinion, anytime you can buy maple equipment thru some other avenue other then high priced dealers the better off you are ($$$$$). Amish or non Amish, Alot of "private backwoods" fabricators do a quality job and will stand behind their work. We had our whole rig done by a private fabricator and are very happy with the end result, both performence and price. Sounds like this Amish fellow is one to check out over there also. We also like to sniff around the local scrap yards for throw away stuff that will work out just fine for maple type projects. Low overhead is the key to put $$$ in your pockets. Also nice to keep the local money flowing. (please no nasty grams from high priced equipment dealers) LOL.

[bix]

i have a 2x8 made by A&A and we love it great guy to deal with 40 to 45 gal per hr

[3rdgen.maple]

Personally the Amish can keep their stuff. They are killing the my local economy by undercutting everyone in sight. Good for the buyer at first but in the long run it is hurting businesses in town. I gotta laugh at the Amish family with the ford trucks full of corn sitting along the roadside selling corn.
I drew the line with them after giving them the grand maple tour and the how to list. Come to find out the donkeys already had a maple operation and where just after my pricing and filled there carts with syrup parked them along the road by a couple stores that sell my syrup and undercut me by alot. Good news I got word from 3 customers that they bought theirs instead and it was like water and had little flavor and will never buy theirs again.. Sounds like they are not finishing it completely so they end up with more crap to sell at a cheaper price. They are a sneaky bunch be careful.

[gmcooper]

We have dealt with Amish in New Holland PA area for many years most there seem good to work with. Seems like many other communities are not the same. We have a bunch in northern Maine now and they like the ones in NY and WI seem to be all about the money and undercutting prices on everything they do just to get the business. It helps that they don't pay workers comp, unemployment, SS, Ins, and who knows about taxes. We could all sell for less without those.

[3rdgen.maple]

Where do I sign up lol.

[Dennis H.]

I feel the same way, I am not to crazy about the amish. They are nice enough people but when it comes to money watch out.
My dad had a hardware store for many years and had quite a few amish come in and do business then all of a sudden one of them opened thier own hardware store and there they went. Most had to ride inthier buggies for 15 miles to get there but they went.

When it comes to maple syrup I don't think I have much to worry about, I may eat those words some day but I will say them.
I don't know of any amish around here that are farmers, they are all construction and woodworking stuff.
And since they are all about money they just isn't enough money in it around here for them to start. Or so I hope!

Sorry for the rant.

[Bucket Head]

I would'nt let the lack of "shine" or the dull finish on the stainless deter anyone from getting one of their evaporators. My homemade pans (not Amish) work great. Any time someone can save some hard earned money by not buying the over-priced factory stuff is a benefit.

I don't have anything good or bad to say about the Amish items- I have never used their services for anything. There are not that many of them around here. I do agree that they undercut others. Their situation is similiar to the Indians when it comes to fair prices- everyone else loses. I could go on and on about this..., but I won't.

Back to the Amish. Yesterday I returned from visiting my buddy who does live in an area that has a high concentration of them. Many farms and many business's run by them out there. I was not aware that they could use pay-phones and cell phones. I did'nt think that was allowed. Also, what's up with the tractors with steel wheels on them instead of rubber? Thats ridiculous! Why can't they use the tires? The tractor has rubber belts and radiator hoses, right? My buddy saw a tractor and baler up on blocks and they were bringing the lose hay to it with horse and wagon! Anyone know why the rubber tires are not allowed?

Steve

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Different groups of Amish have different rules. There are 2 different groups near me and what each group can do is different. What they can do on their own farms is different from what they can do on rented land. For instance, they can hire someone to bale hay on rented land but if they own the land, hay must be forked through a stationary baler or put up loose. None of the groups around me can use a telephone except in an emergency. I have called the vet, answered a want ad, or lord knows what for them on innumerable occasions. If there is a medical emergency, they will talk to the doctor or a hospital themselves but many of them would still prefer that an "Englishman" does it.
As far as steel versus rubber, rubber for tires is considered to be useful only for comfort. As such it is viewed as unnecessary. I have wished more than once that the wheels on my wagon were steel when fixing a flat at an inopportune time. Amish around here undersell me too....And so do some "Englishmen" who produce only for a hobby.
I have hired Amish for many years. I withheld SS and matched it, the same as anyone else. IRS rules require this. (An Amish employer is exempt based on court ruling). This is beneficial to the rest of us as that money is taken into the SS system but the Amish will not collect from the system.
Similar things happen with Workmans Comp and Unemployment insurance. Nope, it is not paid, but neither is it collected in the case of an accident or unemployment.
Amish do pay taxes. Local real estate taxes are paid and local school taxes and then they provide their own schools. Many do not file income taxes but if they did, it would likely cost the system. Consider the deductions for 10 to 16 kids......
Don't get me wrong, I wish we really had a level playing field. We don't and there is little any of us can do as individuals to change that. I just want to point out things are not as simple and perhaps not as unequal as they sometimes seem.
Quality of Amish products? It is all over the board....just like with the rest of us. I have had some of the finest maple cream around, all stirred by hand, made by an Amish family, and some that was so grainy that I thought it had sand in it, made by another family. They have chosen their lifestyle and the rules they want to live by. I admire them for their sense of community and for most of them their work ethic. I would not want to go back to living totally without my "MapleTrader"

[KenWP]

You have to live by Hutterites to get the other side of the mennonite way of life. They live on colonys and do the darndest things sometimes. They don't have to pay taxes as they don't actually make any money for themselves. If we had maples in the praire provinces they would be makeing maple syrup and equipment and what have you.
Salesman love them as they will buy almost anything new. They have every new kind of automatic equipment you can buy. They have one phone per colony and try everyway to make sure they don't have to pay for a call. Bunch of them phoned me every morning at 5 for months till I figured out they had the wrong area code and gave them the right one and they never phoned again.They spoke in german and I had to get somebody with a brain who understood what I was trying to tell them.

[Bucket Head]

Thanks for the info Doug. I have to say though, taking the tires off the tractors still seems silly. However, as the saying go's, to each their own. There must be a lot of good deals out there in Amish country on "slightly used- never seen field" tractor tires!

Steve

[3rdgen.maple]

Well why do they have rubber on their ford trucks? Well atleast one group of them does. I still say they are a funny bunch.

[lpakiz]

Around here in Wisconsin, the Mennonites (Not Amish) will put steel wheels on everything that has a seat. Including skid-steers and riding lawn-mowers!!
Now that's a sight...

[BHMC]

If you want a good price and good solid working evaporator call Bill Mason in Maine. No issues with this Gentleman. Stands behind his stuff. Nice Honest Guy.

[Dennis H.]

Yeah Bill Mason is worth checking with. He gets back with you really fast if you email him or leave a message.
I was looking for a Roof Jack so I sent him a message, he got right back with same day.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

Yeah Bill Mason is worth checking with. He gets back with you really fast if you email him or leave a message.
I was looking for a Roof Jack so I sent him a message, he got right back with same day.

and his workmanship is as good as any

[Southtowns27]

My 2x6 is Amish built. The entire thing - arch, pans, stack, hood, etc, was built by the Amish tinknocker in SS. It works great, I've had few issues with it, and it was tons cheaper than a "name brand." If it weren't for him building it for me, I would not be able to enjoy this hobby. I simply can't afford what the name brands charge.
Furthermore, 2 summers ago, I contracted the Amish to build my house. The house was built on their property in two halves. I had it trucked to my location and set it on the basement with a crane with the roof installed and finish work done on site. Yes, it was a lot of work on my end, but for the the quality of the construction and the financial savings it simply didn't make sense to do it any other way. I even had the Amish furniture builder make my kitchen cabinets. (They're solid hickory and gorgeous). All of the Amish I have dealt with (here in Western NY) have been very fair, accomodating, and professional. I can't say a bad thing about them, but that is just my experience.

[adamsmithnny]

I am interested in what the price was through the Amish. Looking to get into the hobby without a terrible price. And pics if you have any. Thanks. Carthage NY.

[jasonl6]

here is the lastest price list i have from A&A. I know they are pumping out the evaporators but i have yet to see mine that i ordered in august so they might not be taking orders for the 11 season anymore. Best you can do is mail them.

[Tim Wagoner]

I just read all the post. Here in KY we really only had Mennonites and very few Amish. Around 1986 a large group came down from PA and starting buying land. Down here the price per acre was high but for these guys coming down from PA it was dirt cheep. Since then they have been showing up in droves. They drove the price of land up and now undercut everyone and everything. They had not done maple syrup until they bought Chapel Allen’s farm. He loved maple trees and would not let them be cut down yet he timbered his place several times taking out the walnut and other hardwoods. When he sold his place he priced it high enough that he truly thought no one would buy it. $2000 per acre and was a 475 acre tract that he would not split up. He listed the land due to family dispute and that was the only way it could be resolved. Land at that time was going for $1300 per acre and that was prim farm land wood and cattle land was around $900 to $1000. His land sold in three weeks and was bought buy 3 Amish families who came down from PA. in 2004 Last year they made 800 gal of maple syrup and for someone like me who makes I hope 100 this year it makes it hard if not almost impossible to compete with. Price of land now is $2100 per acre for crap and some just sold for $4125 per acre that was good crop land.

[3rdgen.maple]

Tim it sounds like you just described my area. I will not deal with them at all ever. My opinion is they are nothing but a bunch of conartist and I will bet you if you tasted some of their syrup you would find it not completley finished in fact not even close. I lost a few customers to Amish with them only to return and say how underfinished their product is. There are alot of hardworking multi generation business and families that dont deserve to be put out of business cause some Amish have already been pushed out of their old community and packed up and moved to ours. In due time people catch on and they are off to bother someone elses town.

[Dennis H.]

$2100 an acre! Wow I wish I could buy land for that. Around here land goes for about $10,000 an acre when you buy more than 10. Under 10 acres watch out. A 3 acre lot will set you back anywhere from 30-60 big ones!!

I have being trying to pick up some ground and there is 25 acres for sale by the owner he wants $250,000. When I gave him my offer and told him that the bank would loan me no more he looked right me and said "you might want to try another Bank"

Now that sucks!

[Jim Brown]

Here in our area the Amish are not trying to out do anyone as they don't want to do the retail thing only for their familys. No farm gate selling. When we approched them about buying bulk syrup they wanted to know how it was graded and what we expected. We told them we would grade and test it in front of them and showed them what we expected . Some of the first syrup was not up to standard and they would not sell it to us as they wanted to boil it down so as to make it suitable for us.They were more than happy to comply and we have bought some of the most beautiful syrup you ever seen and Right on the mark on the hydrometer and the grade kit.
Just our experience here

Jim

[3rdgen.maple]

I suppose maybe I shouldnt be so harsh on all Amish, maybe all the bad seeds in the bunch moved here. It is good to hear that not all are bad. I know when they all first moved in everyone thought it was cool watching the horses pulling them in their carts. Even McDonalds put up some hitching post for them. It wasnt long after that when it all went downhill from there.

[christopherh]

Finally some good information on these evaporators.Thanks! A guy in Colebrook, Ohio is a dealer for them. I'll be looking at one tomorrow night and maybe I can post some pictures. Has anyone used the insulation blankets instead of firebrick? Chris

[jasonl6]

I am building my own arch. I simply used there pans. I am going to use the ceramic blanket from Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/SAFE-Non-Ceramic-Fiber-Blanket-1-8-SW607-/130314585554?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e575ac5d2) . My arch will have an inner and outter lining. The inner will be split firebrick/cereamic blanket. then between the fiberbox and the outside tin i am putting fiberglass insulation.

Jason

[Monster Maples]

From my experiences with the pilgrims in general is you have to watch them, just like everyone else. Don't think just because they are religious that they will not screw you over. 6 days out of the week they are just like us with cell phones and computers etc. They just decide not to have cars (at there houses). Sunday, they are just like advertised.:)

[killingworthmaple]

I bought a 2x6 built by the AA amish shop last year boiled on it and sold it at the end the season. They seam to make a good system it boiled around 30 gallons an hour. The front pans is 30 in and the flue pan is 42 in. The problem that I had was the front pan had a leak from the factory I had a local shop try to fix it but the way that it was built they could not get to the leak. I sold it and am staying with weilded pans. I bought it because the price was great if someone does not mind solder it is hard to beat. I have pictures of mine if anyone wants to see them Email me at nthhea@aol.com or you can call and we can talk 860-604-8115

Nathan

[Dennis H.]

Look locally for ceramic blanket before buying from ebay. The shipping is what gets you. I was going to get some off ebay, the roll was going to cost I think $45 but the shipping was something like $40.

Called a local guy who does pottery and asked where he buys his kiln supplies. Found out that about 3 miles from my work is a place that sells ceramic blanket.
Since I only needed a few feet I saved alot of $$. He sold it by the foot at one price or another if I got the entire roll. If I remember right it was $2.75/ft partial roll or $2.15/ft for entire roll.
It was nice dealing with a local guy for once!

So check around locally, look for kiln suppliers.

[moeh1]

Doug or Jason, do you know if they sell just the cast arch front/door. They aren't that far from me and I'm looking to build a 2xSomething soon.:)

[jasonl6]

I think you can buy just the fronts. I know they are building there own airtight fronts now (by building there own i mean somone is welding them up for them :-)

Jason

[farmerfletch]

How do I get ahold of A&A

[jasonl6]

Old Fashioned Mail.

A&A Metal Shop
464 Collins Hill Rd
Ulysses Pa 16948

If you include your phone number and a time he may call you.

Jason

[maple dayes]

does anyone have pics of the evaporators they are building?

[killingworthmaple]

I have pictures if you want some email me direct.

Nathan

nthhea@aol.com

[farmerfletch]

My father and I went down to check out an evaporator, we purchased a 2x10 raised flue, airtight front with one of his combo hoods. they are good people to deal with, and for our overall price was probably close to half of what we would pay at leader.

[heus]

What do you mean by a combo hood?

[maple flats]

I went to visit an Amish maple producer last June. He was real nice to talk with and we had a nice talk. I asked what he had left to sell, and he showed me 1 30 gal bbl, med amber. Then he opened it and stuck his finger in to taste it. I could see mold on the top of the syrup already. He closed the bbl and said a local man who repacks it and sells to stores was going to buy it.
I personally would never buy from him after he stuck his finger in it (didn't even wash first and he had been doing barn chores when I got there). I also question the mold. I've never had mold form that soon after the season in a bbl, I only get it occasionally after the heat of summer, on into late fall if at all. I'm guessing the density might have been on the thin side.
As for phones, I bought my RO from an Amish man, good man , good to deal with and he has a phone in his shop, none in his home. I too have seen them at auctions and they often pull a cell phone from their pockets.

[farmerfletch]

He makes hoods that go on the flue pan but he attaches the hood for the front pan on the flue pan hood, so you don't have to suspend the front hood

[heus]

OK thats how mine is.

[heus]

At least 2 new A&A evaporators will be at Ray Gingerich's consignment auction in Orwell this coming saturday. I was there yesterday to drop some items off and there is a 2x6 and a 2.5x8 to be auctioned off.

[Father & Son]

heus,
I was at Ray's yesterday afternoon picking up my RO. Did he show you the small RO he's building. That going to draw some interest next Saturday.

Jim

[Jim Brown]

Congrats Jim You finally got it! Love to be at the auction but have to deliver 6 gallon of syrup to the Pittsburgh area to the folks we talked about



Jim

[lastwoodsman]

killingworthmaple


Maple Enthusiast




Nice photos in your smilebox, can almost smell it boiling, fun for the kids!!
Woodsman

[Father & Son]

Congrats Jim You finally got it! Love to be at the auction but have to deliver 6 gallon of syrup to the Pittsburgh area to the folks we talked about



Jim

Good job Jim. Keep that three rivers area flooded with PA finest!

Jim

[killingworthmaple]

Thanks Lastwoodsman I thank my wife for doing that. We made the video and sent it to all our friends and family last spring with an invatation to come and stop by the sugar shack for some sweet stuff. I can't wait till next season looking to exspand the opperation.

Nathan
Killingworthmaple

[heus]

heus,
I was at Ray's yesterday afternoon picking up my RO. Did he show you the small RO he's building. That going to draw some interest next Saturday.

Jim

Jim,
No I had a dozen other questions for him, we never got around to talking ROs. I dropped off a 10" roof jack, 10" flip top stack cover, and a three point carry-all. Congratulations on the new RO.

[theschwarz1]

Here is a little article I worte on A & A Metal Shop (http://dailyhike.wordpress.com/2013/01/14/a-a-metal-shop-ulysses-pa/)

[palmer4th]

So Getting back to the Evaporator itself. Who has them and how have they worked?? GPH? Pictures of your A&A Evaporator?

[heus]

[QUOTE=theschwarz1;199959]Here is a little article I worte on A & A Metal Shop (http://dailyhike.wordpress.com/2013/01/14/a-a-metal-shop-ulysses-pa/)[/QUOTE
Nice article. The evaporator in your one pic looks like mine, which is in post #47.

[heus]

Palmer here are some pics of mine.

[theschwarz1]

I was very happy with the evap , the price, and all it included....however when I tested it out with water...it had 2 leaks. Both were where the holes in the pan dividers were made. So now I dont know whether to just deal with it or take it back and have him solder it. I still would recommend him....just a little disappointed.

[Gary R]

I would contact them and have them fix it. They won't know to leak test better unless we tell them. This should help everyone out.

[theschwarz1]

YEah I think I'll fix it myself and send him a letter...just so he knows. Atley is a good guy.

[killingworthmaple]

I had a leak on the one I bought also and it sounds like the same place. They said that they were having problems with that joint. I could not get it to stop brought it too a welding shop and they could not fix it either. I finally gave up and let it sugar over and sold the unit in the spring.

Nathan