55 gallon food grade drums for sap transportation/storage.... see pic !

[WoodButcher]

hey guys .
well this is what i plan on doing .

i have about 50 taps and last year i collected by hand and stored the sap in new garbage cans on the north side of my garage. its worked great , but now my sugarhouse has moved from my primary source of sap . :o

i have a 3x4' small utility trailer thats road ready . i plan on buying 2 food grade 55 gallon plastic drums.
i plan on lying them on their sides, and using the hole in the end of the bar thats up high for filling the sap, and the lower hole for draining sap when im ready to boil .
i will lay them both side by side on the trailer, giving me 110 gallons of storage . . .

the local guy i have is selling food grade NSF approved barrels for 15$ each .
they could have had 3 things in them :

1. food grade (NOT industrial cleaner)phosphoric acid for soda pop, etc. 85% solution.
2. cooking sherry (smells like wine) used in dressings etc.
3. apple juice (self explanatory)

he said the ones that clean up best are phosphoric acid and sherry . he said after a few cleaning the sherry ones work great. but the phosphoric ones interest me , seeing how they sound like they have the least prominent smell . he said it sort of smells like pool water. i plan on filling both with tap water once i purchase them and driving them around the yard with a garden hose to water my garden and plants .

what are your thoughts? i plan on just going over there, and see for myself how pungent the odors really are. however, the only ones he has right now are the phosphoric ones, which HE DOES put aside for people that collect rain water for drinking when theres a power outage and their wells dont work , OR for maple syrup guys .

below is a couple pics of a setup a local producer sent to me . i would like to mirror this operation , but with 2 barrels instead of one , and the barrels would be the other way so i can access the lower bung hole .

thanks in advance

[red maples]

there you go !!! I will be doing the same this year as I get more road side buckets up this year!!!

[Dan W]

Wood Butcher, I am doing the same thing now to collect. However, I got ahold of a couple of 2 gallon buckets and cut a hole in the side of each drum that is the diameter of the tapered bucket about mid way upand they are just friction fit. I drilled 1/2 inch holes in the bottom of them to allow the sap through. The holes in the buckets are small enough that you don't get any sloshing out. I used the funnel system for a couple of years and I think this works better. You can dump the sap almost as fast as you want and it also strains some of the ice when that occurs. It also gives you a pretty big opening to clean the drims out-you can actually get in there and scrub rather than just rinse. I have the bottom bungs manifolded together and pump from there to my storage tank but, I usually collect over 100 gallons per trip. You could have a valve on the bottom of each and only use one tank at a time and not contaminate new sap with that which may be a day or two old. I think there is a picture in my profile.

[WoodButcher]

ya i just built a deck so im gonna take a few of the leftover 4x4's i have and cut half moons out of them to stabilize the barrels when theyre laying down .

so what you think of the 3 choices of barrels? it seems phosphor is fine ... according to wiki....." Food-grade phosphoric acid is used to acidify foods and beverages such as various colas, but not without controversy regarding its health effects. It provides a tangy taste, and, being a mass-produced chemical, is available cheaply and in large quantities. The low cost and bulk availability is unlike more expensive natural seasonings that give comparable flavours, such as ginger for tangyness, or citric acid for sourness, obtainable from lemons and limes. (However most citric acid in the food industry is not extracted from citrus fruit, but fermented by Aspergillus niger mold from scrap molasses, waste starch hydrolysates and phosphoric acid.)

[WoodButcher]

Dan ,
sounds interesting .... so i would use the larger 3/4" bung and rotate the bucket so its on the lower lip , install a cheap home depot pvc pipe with a twist ball valve for the sap to exit, and instead of a funnel on the top, get a nicely tapered bucket and wedge it in a big, approx. 8-10" hole in the top facing the sky.... dump the fresh collected sap in that and itll drain through the bucket bottom holes.... i like it ... i would make the hole the diameter of the bucket so that the bucket only sits about 3" into the drum, seeing how you want as much sap capacity as possible in the drum . . . should work . :evil:

[WoodButcher]

hmm , maple marcs idea is good !

sealed hinge...

[red maples]

oh I like the flap with the gasket that's a nice touch!!! I think I'll do that.

[WoodButcher]

oh I like the flap with the gasket that's a nice touch!!! I think I'll do that.

y a, ide think youde need an extra barrel around to make the flap door larger than the door cutout hole, so it overlaps the seam . which is fine, theyre free or cheap . i want to know how he mounted that screen in there... would be nice to filter out bugs and bark . ..

[maplemat1]

stop at richards maple products and see if dave will steam the barrels for ya .i would probly get the one with apple juice in them they should steam out better than the sherry ones.

[TF Maple]

The flap door could probably be cut from a non-food grade barrel since it really doesn't make much contact with the sap.

[BarrelBoiler]

with that size funnel and pipe you could pour in as fast as you want i thiink

might want a small (1/2 inch) vent screwed into the top end

[C.Wilcox]

I do it exactly as Dan W posted and it works great. If you take your time cutting the hole that fits the bucket you can actually get a water tight seal. Once the bucket is in I put a clean coarse fabric piece of cloth (old T-shirt, cheese cloth, etc.) over the holes in the bottom of the bucket to filter out all the bugs and junk. After I finish emptying pails I just snap the lid on the bucket and no sap gets sloshed out during transport. When I get back I just pull out the cloth and rinse it off so we're ready for the next collection run.

[WoodButcher]

ill look into both ideas. the buck seems much easier , and im sure i can find buckets smaller than 5 gallons with lids somewhere... maybe tractor supply . and the bucket theory would be self venting too while your pouring . all knowing my luck ill screw up the hole for the bucket :o

[C.Wilcox]

ill look into both ideas. the buck seems much easier , and im sure i can find buckets smaller than 5 gallons with lids somewhere... maybe tractor supply . and the bucket theory would be self venting too while your pouring . all knowing my luck ill screw up the hole for the bucket :o

Check with the local bakery. Some of their frosting, salad dressing, etc. comes in small 2 gallon pails. That's where I got mine. When you get the smaller bucket just set it on the barrel you're going to cut the hole into and trace around the bottom with a sharpie. Start by cutting inside the line and then work your way out as necessary. It took me a few minutes to get it just right, but it wasn't difficult. The added bonus, as someone mentioned before, is that it makes end of the season cleaning a whole lot easier.

[Dennis H.]

Thanks for the explaination on how you cut the hole for the bucket.
I am working on a sap hauling trailer myself. I was thinking about getting a larger tank, 100+ gal, from Tractor Supply but I would still be dealing with the small cap.
I like the idea of having a larger opening that I can reach into. With the size of trailer that I am making, 4'x4', 2 55 gal barrels will fit nicely on it.

Now I need to get 2 barrels.:D

[WoodButcher]

I like the idea of having a larger opening that I can reach into. With the size of trailer that I am making, 4'x4', 2 55 gal barrels will fit nicely on it.

Now I need to get 2 barrels.:D

ya, my trailer is the harbor fright type, about 3.5'x4.5' , holds 1400lbs so im good there. i plan on putting up 4 4x4s on the trailer bed to support the flat drums. . .
i was at my local supermarket, Giant Eagle, and they had one 2 gallon bucket for me with a lid. they get them 3 times a week, bu usually throw them away , so just let them know and theyll save them for you . all i need is one more. theyre nice, lid has a gasket too.

keep an eye on this post.. once i have mine done ill post pics. but ive got time until february... :D

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

I got some metal barrels from justborne candies/foods which had liquid inverted sugar in them, they have like a coating inside the barrels, reminds me of a painted on lining of some kind, looks like its a FDA approved food Lacquer ?

got them for free from a Friend, he says i can go right into these barrels with the sap as the liquid that was in them were in them with the coating on the barrels. plus he got me some 5 gal pails with lids that had pear juice in them also we got 1 250 gal tote that had corn syrup in it last year from him, it has the extra large opening in the top 10" or 12"...
all for free and he said if i want more of any of them just let him know as they trash everything away. hope these 55 gals work for the sap.

like to do what some of you all did with your drums. no more new trash cans for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/hinkjc/Maple%20syrup%20Making/drums001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/hinkjc/Maple%20syrup%20Making/drums002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/hinkjc/Maple%20syrup%20Making/drums004.jpg

[Dennis H.]

Nice find. Open head drum, very nice.
They are most likely coated inside with an epoxy type paint.

[maple flats]

I used to use buckets and when I did I had a 125 gal tank in my truck and I cut a food graded barrel in half to make 2 half barrels. Then when I got to my buckets to collect the sap I dumped it into the half barrel and started my sap pump and pumped it into the 125 tank while I collected the next buckets. At each tree I would lift the bucket off the tap, dump it into one of the 2 -5 gal pails I carried and rehung. I would continue until both pails were full and then I carried them to the truch where the half barrel was now empty and I just dumped and went to collect more. I now use no buckets (except one at the sugarhouse to show people the old way) and I just pump from ground tanks into the truck or tractor tank. After I add vac at the sugarhouse everything will go directly to the sugarhouse for that site, my other bushes are a few miles away and will continue to be hauled by truck.

[SeanD]

I'd like to make a collection tank like the one Woodbutcher got going in this thread. I'd like to put a simple valve in one of the 2" bung holes. What is the name of that fitting? Can I get it at one of the box stores or is it a special order?

Also, one of the bung fittings is gunned on tight. It there a special trick or tool for twisting it out?

Sean

[Randy Brutkoski]

I forgot the name of them too, but you can get them at Webbs. It has a rubber seal on both sides. I have a couple and they work really good. I use them for overflow. I put mine on with a big channel lock.

[Grade "A"]

I think the name for those are bulk head fitting.

[SeanD]

Thanks for the name. I found a place nearby that carries a few different sizes. Thanks!

Sean

[DrTimPerkins]

I got some metal barrels from justborne candies/foods which had liquid inverted sugar in them, they have like a coating inside the barrels, reminds me of a painted on lining of some kind, looks like its a FDA approved food Lacquer ?

Nice find. Yes, the coating on the inside is a food grade lacquer. These drums are commonly referred to as "one-way" or "one-use" barrels as they are meant to be filled at the production plant, then emptied and destroyed. They should be fine for sap storage as long as the inner coating is intact....it can start to flake or peel after a period of time.

[danno]

I've still have this sap trailer for sale if anybody is interested. As we are without classifieds, this seems an appropriate thread to add this for anyone looking to make a sap carrier. Trailer has full size tires, and no springs - thus can hold alot of weight. I used two 275 gallon totes - so trailer handled over 4000 lb. with no problem.

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

Thanks Doc on that info on the flaking liner. will surely keep a close eye on that. don't want that cooking up with the sap.

[SeanD]

I've got the bulkhead fitting on order and I just picked up the PVC ball valve for the opening at the bottom of the 55-gal drum.

I'd like to know a quick way to connect a hose to the valve to transfer the sap to the open-topped barrels I keep next to the shack. The barrels are about 10' down slope from where I'll drive up, so I'll have gravity do my work for me.

The valve has a bit of a neck on it - maybe 1.5". Could it be as simple as jamming on a hose with an ID around the same size? Will that withstand the pressure from the gravity of 55 gallons and the cold temps?

I don't want to mess with clamps. Ideally some kind of quick friction fit would do. Is there a such a thing as a 1" barb end in PVC?

Thanks,
Sean

[dnap63]

Sean, If you use the ball valves with threaded connections rather than the glue type just get a 1" barbed x 1"npt fitting and connect your hose. I use pvc unions on my valves which makes it easy to disconnect the lines if I need to

[SeanD]

Thanks. So they do make barbed ends in PVC. For your union, do you thread one end of it onto the valve and clamp the other side of it onto the hose and then just screw/unscrew them together when you need to?

Sean

[dnap63]

Sean, what I use are the threaded pvc valves with a 2"nipple then one half of the union the other half of the union gets the threaded hose barb fitting. easy to take off and put on without tools.

[SeanD]

I like that. Quick and easy. Thanks.

Sean

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

55 gal metal food-grade drums (head tanks).. 1" put together the other day.
used the ideas from the link below, just changed it up and used a treaded PVC ball valve instead. after the install i used clear caulk around the outside, but i didn't need it as i tested my seals around the ball bulk fitting and no leaks, my dad said put some around anyway. of course there will still be some sap left behind in the very bottom that will not be able to drain, i will use a small utility pump to clean it out at the end of each boil. will do for this year..

An Improvised PVC Bulkhead Fitting for Liquid Storage Tanks
http://truetex.com/bulkhead.htm (http://truetex.com/bulkhead.htm)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/hinkjc/1295043620.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/hinkjc/1295043624.jpg

1" from Lowe's, to drill out hole..worked like a charm.
http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/885911/885911105934lg.jpg

[SeanD]

Very nice! I really appreciate the pics. Next year I might make the jump to a head tank. Right now I can keep up by filling a drip preheater by hand. How high above your evaporator are the bottoms of the tanks? Will you use a pump from your collection tank to fill these?

Sean

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

Hi Sean, the ball valves are 8" above the float inlet, hopefully it will be enough. these will be filled using my loader with a collection tank in the loader bucket, will raise it up and use the hose connected to that tank into the head tanks. valve is basically set up on the collection tank as the head tanks are.

the tank in the bucket is a 35 gal collection tank (which weighs approx 292.25 lbs filled)the 35Gal collection leg tank is from TSC, plus we have a set of steps going up along the side of head tanks to dump 5 gallon buckets into by hand from the tree's closer to the shack. i also have a 250 gallon tote that I'm still trying to get ready if i need it. but more than likely i will be able to keep up with the boiling and keeping these two tanks empty at all times. I'm just about ready for it.. lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/hinkjc/Maple%20syrup%20Making/WP_000175.jpg

Right now i have a blade for plowing snow on the back of the tractor, but will be changing it out for a ballast box with 400lbs in it for sapping season..
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs796.ash1/168682_181032271918085_100000339416896_488678_3477 994_n.jpg

[SeanD]

That's good to know. I've assumed I would have to go up into the rafters, and still might have to, but I might be able to take advantage of gravity on the high side of the shack. Thanks again for the pics.

Sean

[red maples]

stair way to heaven right there:)

[sticbow]

I am looking at some 55gal barrels for sap storage. They are epoxy lined. The barrels were used for silicone, but the silicone was in a plastic liner inside the barrel. I would doubt if the epoxy would be food grade. I really dont know! Does anyone see a problem with me using them?

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

is it A food grade type of epoxy?

The metal drums i used above had the product directly in the barrel, so the epoxy lining in those must be food grade type.

[sticbow]

I dont know if its food grade epoxy or if there even is such a thing as food grade epoxy. All I know is that it looks like the same epoxy that is in the barrels I am using now and they held corn syrup.

[sticbow]

Ok, to hell with those silicone barrel. Now I can get some that were filled with molasses. Havent looked at them yet. I wonder if they will hold the molasses smell?

[WoodButcher]

Ok, to hell with those silicone barrel. Now I can get some that were filled with molasses. Havent looked at them yet. I wonder if they will hold the molasses smell?

do some searches on here and youll find a bunch of people who used the food grade barrels . in fact, scroll to the first page of this topic and youll find answers :rolleyes:

i bought 2 that had apple flavoring in them , and one person recommended i take em up to my local maple shop and have them steam the insides out . its a possibility, but with the hole im making in mine (10-12" in diameter) ill be able to scrub her out .
molasses should be fine .... just do some research on here.

[WoodButcher]

UPDATE:

threw 3 boxes of baking soda in each of my 55 gallon drums that used to have apple juice in them , filled with tap water, rolled em around my driveway , then let em sit overnight with the water in them .
can barely even smell the apple anymore !
i didnt even scrub them yet . i will when i cut the bigger hole in them .

heres a quick pic i took after i finished my 4x4 wood template on the floor i will use to hold 2 of them laying down on the trailer. then all i will need is two quick ratchet straps and they wont go anywhere. ill finish the barrels this weekend.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z104/italianjeremy/1.jpg

[morningstarfarm]

nice trailer...that should do nicely

[maple marc]

Hey Woodbutcher,
Nice work, but just remember how much weight that trailer will be hauling...perhaps 800 lbs! Those wheels are going to sink into soft snow or mud. Watch out!

Marc

[WoodButcher]

1500lb capacity on the trailer. No problem there. And I wont be lugging through the woods ...just from one house to my house where the arch is. :)

[WoodButcher]

shes all done , as you can see from the pics below .

works great !
itll fill a 5 gallon bucket in about 10-15 seconds , and thats with the syrup pre-filter on the end of the spout to catch any remaining particles.

just lay your cheese cloth draped over the white bucket that has 4 2" holes in the bottom and your good to go .
i bungee corded the small white buckets while driving on the roads so they dont pop out from reverse vacuum pressure in the blue drum .
didnt spill a drop . and the drums dotn move at all with just two tie straps that were tight but not over bearing .

the spout works great and the end L shape of the spout is removable so i dont whack it on something while driving . all other pvc joints are permanent, except of course the 3/4" to 1" bung adapter thats threaded into the blue dums inner cap threads. i got the 3/4 to 1" adapter so that the pvc pipework would be 1" for better flow . and its more than enough . the white bucket allows it to burp too while pouring for faster filling .
again , i just use this to go from one house to the next to get the sap along the road.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z104/italianjeremy/Sugarin/2011%20sugar%20season/IMG_20110219_141341Large.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z104/italianjeremy/Sugarin/2011%20sugar%20season/IMG_20110219_141405Large.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z104/italianjeremy/Sugarin/2011%20sugar%20season/IMG_20110219_141809Large.jpg

[WoodButcher]

its been so cold here the sap hasnt run in 4 days and i had to put a blanket on my barrels so they wouldnt freeze up . . .

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

Woodbutcher, luv the pics.. nice trailer and collection barrel set up. is that 1" plumbing on your barrels?

[WoodButcher]

SLATE ,
as stated above, the inner threads of the bung cap are 3/4" NPT , but i wanted to use 1" piping to keep it larger and simple.

first off, i looked everywhere in home depot and couldnt find threaded 3/4" or 1" pvc pipe... maybe i need to make it myself? or they expect you to epoxy all connections... i dunno :confused:

anyways , i found these short 3/4" to 1" adapters, but they didnt sit flush in the cap all the way . i was worried so i teflon taped the threads and threaded them into the caps. no leaks at all . all the other 1" pvc and ball valve joints are epoxied .

hope this helps .

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

Yup thanks for the info, looks good and if it works well to thats what counts.. i like how you adapted the PVC to the bungs

I wondered if you could use a plastic welder to weld the buckets into the drums and then use a good FDA epoxy to seal over the welded joints, the plastic welder would work great id bet and they can be had fairly cheap on ebay. are the bucket lids screw on type or pop on's.

we should have some runs coming this week..hope your trailer runs full for you these coming days ahead..

[WoodButcher]

the welder is a good idea, but i wouldnt do that .
the reason is when the seasons over you can pull the bucket out and get your whole arm in there to clean it out better for summer storage . plus , if there are any ice chunks blocking a pathway or whatnot, you can snag em .

the buckets are from the grocery store and contained iding for cakes and stuff in the bakery dept.
they are perfect since they have a heavy duty snap on lid that has a substantial gasket to make em water tight .
if i were to do anything , i would maybe put something non-slip either on the bucket where it contacts the blue drum or on the inner lip of the drum's cutout itself to make the buckets super secure when they are slid in . thats why i put a bungee on the top for safe keeping during transport. they really wouldnt move without the bungee , i just am quirky like that .
a thin rubber would be good. like a wide rubber band to snap around the bucket where it hits the blue cutout .
aww hell , if it aint broke.... :mrgreen:

[WoodButcher]

oh ya ... after some light scubbing and backing soda a couple weeks ago, the initial apple smell is gone and the first syrup tastes as good as ever!

[WoodButcher]

heres a little rack i just made (kinda overbuilt it) to hold my 2 other sap drums while im boiling the two down that are on the trailer.
i store this rack at the house i get all my sap from .
it needs to support 800 lbs , so i bolted the cross supports with 1/2" galvanized carriage bolts. the rest is done with a bunch of 3" deckmate deck screws. the opposing support arms work really well .
ill paint it this spring .
hope this helps inspire someone to get out the 2x4's !

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z104/italianjeremy/Sugarin/2011%20sugar%20season/IMG_20110305_112214Large.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z104/italianjeremy/Sugarin/2011%20sugar%20season/IMG_20110305_112245Large.jpg

[Kev]

I haul and store in 60 gal food drums too. But i cut out the top leaving a lip of several inches to reduce sloshing out. then when i am collecting I have tightly woven burlap (150 lb green coffee sacks) over the hole and bungied around the top.that catches bark, leaves and even ants if you use the best coffee sacks. Some are a much looser weave than others. Then when I have to store sap I can stand the drum up in the storage area and it is in contact with the cold concrete. it really seems to help hold the temp of the sap down compared to sap in the same room that elevated. I just set an old road signs I get from out township over the top of the barrells to keep stuff out of the sap while its sitting there.
in house transfers are done with an old scrounged cistern water pump.
I have considered buying a new sump pump and run oodles of bleach water through it then a jillion gallons of clean water to rinse it. cause the old pump is on its last legs.
any thoughts on the sump pump?

[WoodButcher]

havent really thought of a pump . im assuming you mean to get the sap out of the drums and into the preheater on the arch .

i just carry 5 gallon buckets full of sap 100 yards to where my arch is . thats where i screwed up . i put her in the woods for serenity but now am finding out its too far of a haul and i track so much mud all over the place(raining like mad here) .
next year ill be able to back up the trailer right to the arch . found a new spot just past the driveway .

[Kev]

I pump from either the barrels in the truck (I drive to town and collect from trees in yards there to add to the 25 taps on the farm) or storage barrels on the floor to a covered 80 gal stock tank overhead in the garage. That inturn gravity feeds into the sugarshack to the preheater. no float box I just control flow with a valve

[WoodButcher]

nice . its fun reinventing the wheel every spring ;)

[Kev]

LOL
I carry 5 gal buckets from the yards to the street then climb in the truck to pour into the barrells. it took me too long to figure out the more buckets i use to carry sap to the truck, the less climbing in and out of the bed I have to do:emb: of course the whole time I was doing that every 8~10 GAL. I was fantasizing about a generator in the truck to run a pump to suck it from a 30 gal barrel on a bracket in the hitch reciever to the barrels in the bed.

[Timber Juice]

Nice rack WoodButcher

First time I ever said that to a guy.:o:lol:

One suggestion I have is to add some diagonals long ways.
Those 3" screws will pull out of end grain pretty easily.

With the extra cross-bracing the loaded rack will less likey fall over like dominos.

They could be made with 2x3's or even conduit would make a big difference.

Goodluck

[jputney]

I use a 12 volt submersible bilge pump that I got at Harbor Freight for about $25. I extended the wires so I can hook it up to the battery in the pickup or on the 4 wheeler. I use a hose from the pool supply store ( i think they have them at walmart) saves a lot of lifting and pooring buckets.

[Airstreamnut]

What did you use to cut the hole in these barrels?

[WoodButcher]

i laid the bucket down as a makeshift template, and then used a jigsaw with a fine metal blade to cut it smoothly . worked great .

[SeanD]

I did the same thing, but also used a utility knife to cut the hole to a perfect fit for the bucket. A sharp blade goes through the plastic with ease. The bucket snugs in for a water-tight seal.

Sean