Lots Of Syrup Making Questions:

[chadsoare]

I have always wanted to make maple syrup, but have never taken the time to start this adventure. I have had this equipment for many years: ( 2- 30"x33" SS pans, 1- 2'x3' SS pan, and a small 2'x3' evaporator, 2- bulk milk storage tanks approx 250 gals). This year I tapped 8 trees with my daughter to get her outside in the spring air. It was a great time and we made about a gallon of finished syrup. I was told that mine was a little dark, but that might be due to the fact that when I boiled I keeped adding fresh sap because I wanted a measurable amount of syrup after boiling. I was using a 5 gallon SS pot. I tried filtering using a multifolded cheese cloth but still got an inch of sugar sand on the botton of each pint jar.My goal for 2011 is to tap 400-500 trees. I might be biting off more than I can chew but I will see. My plan is to build 2 brick fire pits for the 30"x33" pans and also run the evaporator. I am looking for 2 rectangular plastic caged water tanks in the northern Wisconsin region. I will place these on the trailer pulled by a tractor for sap collection. I will not be able to build a sugarshack this year due to being unemployed and just graduated from college. My questions begin at:

How often and when should you filter your syrup?
My understanding is to filter when you draw it off from the pans. This is the only time you need to filter it. Right or wrong? I would love to buy a filter press, but you cant find one for less than $500.00

I have read on the forums that you should finish your syrup on a heat controlled environment which makes sense. My question is:

At what percentage should you draw off your syrup for finishing?
I heard to draw off at 66% and finish to 67%, right or wrong?

Once I bottle my syrup must I be registered or certified to sell my syrup to consumers at the farmers market?
If I want to try to market my syrup to stores what certification hoops must I jump through, and where can I find that information? I live in Wisconsin so im not sure if regulations are different for each state.

You guys are right about the syrup bug, once your bit you will not want to give up syrup making.

Chad
soare@centurytel.net

[Haynes Forest Products]

Chad call down to Madison. Look it up on comp they are great to deal with and will help you every step of the way. As far as cooking do the bulk in the seperate pans and transfer to the evap for the final stage. As far as finishing get a hydrometer and cup and leave it up to the right equipment. When it comes to filtering if you can get a press at the $500.00 to $800.00 get it. If not start by letting it settle in 5 gallon pails and siphoning off in to the bottler and reheat to 180 degrees and bottle will help with presentation. Go for 500 and let er rip you will learn alot in a short time. If you cant boil it all you can sell it and buy equipment.

[Rhino]

Chad, never think that you will bite off more then you can chew, check around your area for larger producers who are looking to buy sap, if you get swamped (lets hope) just haul a load or 2 over to him until you can catch back up. What part of northern Wis. you from?? As far as selling from a farmers market( which we do 4 diff. ones ) You dont need a license or inspection as long as you the producer are selling it and that it is clearly labled with your name, address, and amount in each container. Make sure this is done because the inspectors do drop by once in awhile. As far as the totes, I see on craigslist (wausau area) sometimes a guy from Medford is selling some of those, I think they had some kind of food liquid in them but be carefull because those are very hard to get clean with just that little opening on top. good luck and welcome to the craziness.

[red maples]

First of all welcome to the trader...We will be sure to twist your mind with that maple bug already chewing away at you!!!! :)

Lots of great folks here and remember there are no stupid questions we all had to learn sometime too. I still am and will be for years to come.

Wow 4-500 its your choice but you might want to ease into it a little more. I have that potential and then some but went from 25 taps to 300 with 250 on vac. 50 on gravity tubing and buckets. and a 2x6 drop flue Evap and new sugar house. and I am glad I did because it was a big learning curve.

Unless your pans are flue pans you may not be able to keep up with the amount of sap you will get from that many taps. you'll have some pretty long boils to keep up.

first question. filtering. I use a cone fliter, but I might switch to flat filter for next year so I can filter right into my canning/bottling pan. and always ...always use pre filters and remove them as they fill up with sand. I like to filter mine twice. (but thats just me.) Once when it comes out of the pan and once before I bottle it or it goes into a bulk container. If for some reason I need to bring it back over 195F you may get more niter out and want to filter again I try not to do that but it happens.

When to draw off. I try to go just past finished..or a little heavy and add distilled water to it its easier than boiling it longer to finish. but as close as possible but again thats a matter of preference. as far as finishing NH is 66.9 brix at 60F. most states are the same. but check yours

regululations are different in each state so someone from wis could help you or contact your state AG DEPT.

One book that you need to get is the North American Maple Producers Manual. It pretty much has everything maple A-Z and is a must have.

Also you want to visit www.mapleguys.com or bascoms or a maple supply near you!!!

Good luck and have FUN!!!

[farmall h]

chadsoare, here's an idea! Now that you have graduated go on to get your Masters and tack more onto your student loan.....just put some aside for the new evaporator and sugarhouse!! :lol:;) Seriously, maybe you should work it in slowly for 4-500 trees (which could mean 800 taps or more) or hook up with a nearby producer and sell the majority of the sap. Good luck.

[BryanEx]

chadsoare... I would suggest not jumping too fast on increasing capacity. As you grow you tend to learn, work out the bugs in your process, and realize where to best spend your $$$ for next season. You may just loose the fun of it if you feel overwhelmed, frustrated, or simply make too many mistakes for what you've invested. My experience has been that one tends to grow at an exponential rate rather than linear... in other words, go from 10 taps, to 50, to 200, etc. Each jump will challenge you but you'll know what to "fix" for next year while still getting enjoyment and profits from it.

[red maples]

I may add on a few more taps this year, I am doing more fine tuning this year and work out some of the bugs. this way I will be able to handle more sap more effieciently. and for 2012 season I will add on 50 or so more taps....we'll see what things bring.

but that is a good Idea if you have the storage space for all that sap then you may want to sell it and put the money right back into the sugarhouse and keep doing that until you get to where you want to be.

[3rdgen.maple]

Wow love the ambition but dang 500 taps on 3 different evaorators with no flues is gonna kill you the first week into a good run lol. Cut that number back with that setup or like already said plan on selling some sap or plan on getting a bigger rig by boiling time or RO. I think you would be killing yourself trying to boil that down and here everyone says I was nuts for 800+ on a 2x6 drop flue last year. Do you know what your plan is for collection also? Are you looking at gravity tubing setup, buckets or vac. Good used buckets might be the cheapest and the traditional way to go but without some help gathering daily it will cut back on boiling time as well. tubing setup on gravity will get you less collection points but cost a bit more. Vac will cost alot more but get you the most bang for your money. Filter press is not critical as you can always use the trusted syrup filters and prefilter setup. They are nice but if money is of concern it might be better to save up and get the basics. Two hydrometers ( you will break one at the wrong time) and test cup should be on top of that list as well. My family combined has been doing this for well over a 100 years combined and I still ask questions all the time so don't feel bad about that part as we all love helping each other and throw some bragging rights around now and then.

[chadsoare]

Would you advice using a hydrometer or refractormeter. I found a refractormeter for $180.00 that can be used for both sap and hot syrup.

[red maples]

Do you have a budget? If you do then the hydo is the way to go if not refractometer...as long as its new, I have reservations about used refractometers unless you know the person your getting it from... you don't know if it was abused, and as long as it comes with the proper calibrating stuff then yeah get it.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Sounds like the guy that has a gas compressor and impact wrench in his trunk just in case he gets a flat tire. BUT CHUCK isnt it better than a lug wrench....................yup it is.

CHAD get the hydrometer and cup OK its fool proof and works every time its used. As far as being inacurate OK i know a friend whos sister went to school with a guy who knows this person who read a story about this guys dad who saw one that was off by a point :mad:

[KenWP]

Man you guys sure can confuse people. Started out how to finish the syrup and we get to refractometers or what ever they are called. He has to get the sap boiled first before he can test it.
500 should not be to bad with 3 evaporators but just feeding the fires should be good for a 20 pound weight loss. Build the brick fire pit to fit both pans so you only have to feed the one fire for them and then go to the evaporator.
Plastic and a few 2x4s makes at least a dry place to boil sap in and cuts down the wind a lot.
Have fun.

[paul]

Ever boil in a plastic shack, you can`t stay dry

[chadsoare]

The reason I asked about the refractometer is that I could possible test a tree to see the percentage of sugar. The more I think about it why does one need to test the sap. Just check the syrup as you boil it. No need to complicate things. I am one of those that seems to want all the gadgets, an electronic junkie.
You guys are a lot of fun and I appreciate the information, I will take everything I can get.

[red maples]

I like to check the sap because it gives me an idea of what to expect before I even fire up the Evap.

3% sap Yeah baby more syrup less wood and light syrup!!! (that never happens!!)

2% not bad a longer boil possibly light but probably medium syrup we'll see!!!

1% Well really long boil and not as much syrup going through a lot of wood and dark or grade B usualy later in the season.

but all equal fun and fire and syrup and haging with the kids and boiling sodas!!! :D :) :) :)

[Jeff E]

Hey Chad, where in Wi are you? I am by Spooner.
I am a gadgety kind of guy to, but as I have expanded over the years, I have found that I want to focus on production efficiency, gathering efficiency.
4-500 taps will keep you very busy on good sap days, and with your pans you described, you will be taking a lot of time keeping the boil going with all that sap.
I recommend you decide how much time you can keep boiling each day. With 500 taps, there will be days when you have more than 500 gallons of sap. If you are gather alone, you probably have 5 hours of collecting.
If your pan configuration will equate to a 20 to 25 gallon per hour evaporation rate, you will be boiling 24 hours a day when the sap is running good. Who will collect sap those days? You get the point. Try and match your number of taps to a reasonable effort on your evaporation capacity.

[farmall h]

aaah come on guys..I think Chad needs to invest in a small rig, build a small shack and give it a go! If your going to start out, start out right! Your not doing a chicken barbecue...your boiling sap! Do the buckets, at least they can be sold for when or if you change to tubing. Ok, I'll calm down now.;)

[chadsoare]

Im up here in Gurney,WI Jeff. I have a neighbor and daughter that will help me collect and my wife can keep the sap boiling.

When you boil, do you fill the pan once and boil it down to syrup or can you keep the pan full till all of the sap is boiled down? I was told that your syrup will be dark if keep filling your pan with sap. They said fill it once then boil it down. That seems very unproductive if you do it that way

[3rdgen.maple]

No run a about an inch to two inches deep and all the while its boiling maintain that level in the pans until you get close to syrup. If you just fill it up once you will not have enough in the pans to get any significant amount of syrup and the level will get so low you chance bbqing your pans. If you fill it up and then boil it down then fill it up again you will never get the max out of your pans. It will kill the boil and take longer to make syrup. Just keep a steady stream of sap at relativley the same rate of your evaporation and adjust it as you go. This way you never kill the boil and the lower the level of sap in the pans the faster it will evaporate it. It takes more heat to boil 4 inches of sap then say 2 for example. You can pretty much rig up a head tank of sorts and some copper tubing with a petcock valve to regulate your flow of sap and to shut it off when needed. Also always keep a bucket of sap close by for emergency so if things get out of control you can fill the pans with some raw sap in a hurry. We have all burnt up pans and wished we had that pail next to the evaporator at one point in our lives.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Adding on to 3rdGen if you run the pans deep they can boil over. If you run them shallow and they start to boil and thicken the close syrup can climb the sides and still have room to cook. I KNOW you dont want alot of foam but its nice to have the leaway. There is nothing nicer than a bubbly syrup pan that is about 4-6" high of syrup asking to be drawn off:)

[KenWP]

Ever boil in a plastic shack, you can`t stay dry

For two years now. It does tend to rain a bit once in a while but not to bad. Just change touques once in a while. Beats standing out in the open boiling till 6 in the morning and freezing to death.
This year was worse as I boiled about 5 times faster then last year and there fore had that much more steam to condense on the ceiling.

[lpakiz]

I have a 2 foot by 3 foot flat pan. I would recommend you boil a minimum of 60 gal of sap in this size before you try to finish a batch. 80 to 100 gallons is better. This will give me about an inch of finished syrup. You will need to watch VERY CLOSELY towards the end, as near syrup will tend to boil over and/or scorch, especially this shallow.
This is also the stage that you can precision-level the pan, as the bubbles will be wilder in the shallow corner. You'll see....

[Haynes Forest Products]

20 hrs boiling to syrup:) 1 min to candy and 1 second to total disaster:cry: and 10 hrs with a scrapper:mad:

[chadsoare]

I would like more information on where to find a 20 gallon coffee maker. Attach pictures if you can and info on where to find one.

[Haynes Forest Products]

There is one on Ebay its a twin tank unit that has the water jacket all the bells and whistles.......................but its 3 phase and the guy has been trying to get $350.00 for it for the last 6 months. I would see if it can be converted to 220volt. Heck it might have a converter in it making it 3 phase. If you get it cheap you could strip out all the extra crap you dont really need for bottling. I would make him a offer of $200.00 and see if he bites. Type in Commercial coffee maker......first page.