Need Advice, Will Draw Cad Plans Of Homemade Drop Flue Pan

[owarzecha]

Ok here is the deal, Last year I made a 2' x 4' flat ss pan and it worked great, this year I want to make a 2' x 6' drop flue pan but am having difficulty finding pictures/dimensions of how to make. I plan on having a divided pan 2 x 4' section as drop flue pan, (flues to be 2" wide by 5-7" deep depending on what my brake can do, probably total of 5 or 6 again dependent on my brake. then front to be 2'x2' finishing pan. my question is how to go about dividing the finishing pan. I believe it should be 3 dividers placed 8" apart? Now I have never seen a divided pan and cant find a good picture... do they leave alternating gaps in the sides of the dividers? say about 1" gap? or are they holes and if so what size? is the idea to slowly add sap on one end while continually emptying syrup on the other? also need to some up with a good way to add sap to this pan? I see commercial ones have a float box on side. could a guy just put a hole in the flue pan and let it run into the finishing pan? say run the flue pan hole about 1.5" deep and then run 1/2" in finishing pan?

To Me either way you do it I just dont see how you can keep a continual flow with finished syrup. I mean sap in the flue pan would be kept at what 10% maybe? is it that you are running the sap "thin" and even that its going to take more than the few minutes it takes for the sap to flow around the dividers for it to "finish"

If someone could help me understand the concept I will draw 3d plans and share the design.

Thank You

[owarzecha]

Here are some quick examples of what I am thinking... flue pan has 10" side and finish pan has 8" side

[owarzecha]

one more... solid plates on ends of flues (planning on soldering)

[Sugarmaker]

Try to get a look at several pans prior to completing your design. You have it just about correct.
I would have 4 channels in the front and then draw off at the rear or the finish pan. But there are some out there that finsh at the front like you have your sketch.
If I can help let me know. What Cad system are you using? I will be starting training on AutoCad inventor next week.
Chris

[brookledge]

I'd try to make the flues narrower and have more of them. Most flues are about 3/4" wide. Even if you couldget it down to 1.5" it would improve your efficiency. I'm sure there are some photo savy members who could get some pics for you. With a small evap. it is next to impossible to get a continuous flow of syrup unless you had an RO.
Keith

[Sugarmaker]

O,
Tapping and Sappin has a hand built pan, almost the same as your sketch he may be able to provide some details.

Regards,
Chris

[owarzecha]

Try to get a look at several pans prior to completing your design. You have it just about correct.
I would have 4 channels in the front and then draw off at the rear or the finish pan. But there are some out there that finsh at the front like you have your sketch.
If I can help let me know. What Cad system are you using? I will be starting training on AutoCad inventor next week.
Chris

I am using vanilla autocad 2010, but may end up drawing the plan in Revit Structure. Ive been looking at variety of pan pictures and am planning on having the finishing portion of the pan toward the back of the Arch. The biggest problem I see Is im not sure how to get a continual flow of syrup... otherwise I have to finish the syrup in batches and not sure how you do that as after it is done you would need to drain the finish pan, and short of removing it from arch how do you drain the pan without scortching it? With my 2'X4' Flat pan I would do batches and slide pan off when it was time to drain. I just dont understand if this design will work. or are you suppose to keep a flow going so your collecting at a 50 brix or something and then batch finish that in turkey fryer?

Thanks

[brookledge]

Some of the small evaporators have a way of closing off the last partition in the syrup pan, so once you get a batch close you can close it to stop diluted sap from entering. Just need to be closely watching it.
Other way of doing it is draw off batches and finish it with a gas burner.
It might take a while but once you have a good boil going you should be able to boil it right on the pan until it is done. The problem doing it this way is you may only draw off a half pint or a pint at a time which makes it hard to keep your syrup filters hot.
That is why a lot of producers prefer to draw off a batch(1/2 gal to a gal) so it can then be pured into the filter while it is hot and then be ready with a new pre filter for the next batch
Keith

[owarzecha]

Talked to my sheet metal shop, they are suggesting making the flues about 1" wide 6" deep and they will end up welding a seam on the top of each flue as they cant bend multiple flues with their brake.

[Sugarmaker]

O,
1 inch wide x 6 inches deep is good!
You may not get a continious flow as in draw off. Not many folks do but the syrup that is close to being ready should bunch up right at the draw off port and that's where you check the temp and when 219 draw it off until it drops a degree or so then close the valve and wait for it to come back to temp. That's continuous flow vs blocking off a partition and doing a large batch maybe a gallon.
Regards,
Chris

[owarzecha]

So is my 1" hole from the flue pan to the finish pan placed 1" above top of flues a good way to go? or should I try to rig a float system on a side box to somehow regulate how deep things run? i would think you would be losing some heat having the sap go to a "float tank" off to the side but it looks like thats what a lot of these pans have on them.


Since the shop will be welding the flues individually, I have decided to have them do 1" x 6" and a total of 6 flues... which would give me about 6" of space between flues and sides of the pan. or I could have them do 8 flues and have 4" of space between flues and pan. I think that might be getting a little close? even though i am planning on 10" sides.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Go with 8 flues and make the sides of the flue pan 15" high above the flues. 10" high sides should be fine for syrup pan. My syrup pan is 11" and flue pan is 15" and neither are too high.

[owarzecha]

Thanks Westvirgina.. I feel more confident knowing that 15" will work having the flues only 4" from sides.

Now just have to figure out the best method of transfering from flue pan to finish pan and we are ready to draw and fabricate.

[morningstarfarm]

wth a drop flu pan I'd have the transfer holes only about a quarter inch above the flus...then a simple elbow to keep the whole thing level works on mine...put 2 draw off boxes (one on each side) with valves to draw from..have them make a couple plugs with long handles on them to decide which direction you want the syrup pan to flow and you're off to the races..also I'd seriously consider putting the flat pan in the front of the arch..the flus work best with the gasses flowing through them, and the flat pan will work best right over the fire. just my .02.....

[maple flats]

If you make the flues starting just 4" from a side, make sure they will fit the arch. Will you have room for the fire brick? try to have about an inch clearance on each side at the bottom of the flues. Are your sides on the arch slpoed narrower at the bottom? If yes allow room to clear at the bottom.

[owarzecha]

I am fabbing the Arch out of 2"x2" angle after I get the pan done so I will make the brick come to within 1" on all side of flues.

I am planning on having the finishing pan on the front part of the arch and the drop flues towards the back.

Still trying to grasp the idea behind the drop boxes for sap transfer to finish pan though. why would you want the ability to run your syrup 2 ways? varrying temps at sides of finish pan? if so then I should include drawoff valve on both sides as well?

So to accomplish this I would include two drop boxes on either side, have an 90 degree elbows installed so I can regulate depth and which side I want transfer to take place by twisting elbow up or down. then rig float system to regulate finish pan depth and I am in business?


If anyone has any pictures it would be appreciated.

[morningstarfarm]

you only need a float box where the sap comes into the flu pan..believe it or not it'll regulate the level throughout the whole pan setup. the density differential will keep it running.


if the 2 drawoff boxes are at the rear of the flat pan where the elbows come in then you can block off one side and draw from the other..then if the sugar sand builds up you can reverse the flow by just swapping the plug to the other side...also at the end of the season you can tip the flu pan to drain all the started sap into the syrup pan, plug both elbows, and fill the flu pan with water. then you can finish off the final boil as a batch pan.

I'll try to find a link for you to show you..