homeade sap releaser

[Haynes Forest Products]

Well Im off to Wisconsin for the fourth of July. Here is the new creation from HFP. I will be checking the thread as I can. Its under sap releaser on Youtube. Its the one with the 2 beer kegs. Let me know what you think. Yes I started out with a pile of parts that I was kicking around in the shop. I live moving parts:lol:

[tuckermtn]

are you going production with that? looks good -

[maple flats]

looks good. How many taps are you going to have on that releaser?

[Dennis H.]

Looks great and just think you have to 1st empty those Kegs before using them!!:D

[maple flats]

I'd need to find some drinking friends, it would take me a few years to drink that much. I only have one 6-8 times a year. That after I used to have my own keg on tap (until my kids found a way around my lock and served some friends. That day the keg went and I stopped drinking except occasionally when dining out.)

[xyz5150]

Call me when you build the next one i will help you empty the kegs.

[red maples]

nice job on that!!! its a biggun' !!!! hopefully you won't have to go to far with it.

[jrthe3]

yall don't have to empty kegs to build releasers i empty to store syrup in

[jrthe3]

looks great could it be set up so that one keg is dumping well the other is filling

[red maples]

1 question...how do you clean them out? does it have an opening big enough?

[farmall h]

I like it...I like it a lot! Ya know, if you could alternate the filling of the kegs you could have constant vacuum on your lines.:)

[Haynes Forest Products]

I had 2 empty tanks from the scrap yard so I used both just because they looked good together. Trying to have them alternate will be a challange. I plan on having check valves at each manifold mainline connection and a resevoir tank out at the first latteral so the vacuum should stay constant during the dump cycle. Each tank holds 15.5 gallons and will hold about 25 total when the float switch activates.

[farmall h]

Haynes, would it be possible for you to pressure wash them by sticking the wand down in the top hole or do you plan on disconnecting the two tanks and washing them out that way?

I am in the process of building a pvc model that is about the height of the older Lapierre version that is on you tube except I plan on using Asco 120v bronze valves (one to shut off vacuum to releaser /one to exhaust during dumping) and have a timer relay such as yours to end the dump cycle. I was thinking that it may be possible to have a cylinder shaped manifold attached to the vertical releaser so as to keep the vac to the lines during dumping. the manifod would have a flap valve that would get sucked closed as the vacuum is diverted. Hoping that when the dump stage is complete and vac is introduced back to the releaser all the sap held in the manifold would then dump in. Your thoughts would be appreciated!;)

ps: Haynes you have a Bernard double releaser...you just building this for the heck of it? I'll give you $300 plus a 12 pack and you ship to VT. Just kidding.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Honestly Im going on the therory that the mainlines dont get washed during the season so Im not going to wash the releaser. Now at the end of the season Ill suck up some cleaner into the set up thru the manifold and call it good. I dont hand wash my Bernards other than hot water from a spray hose or if its running the cheap power washer. I dont scrub or brush them. Now if I was to sterilize everything I use could I make better syrup...........dont know I get top dollar for what I make and its the best in all the land:lol: You all have me thinking about what it would take to turn it into a doubble releaser and Im working on that in my sleep. First problem is another float in the other tank have the port for it. Need another port in the other tank for the manifold dont have. Plus I would need to divert manifold from tank to tank..................thats do able with a three way ball valve air actuated GOT one....not sure if I need to do it with the vacuum reserve tanks and check valves.

Farnall I was just tinkering in the garage and it all started when I saw these cool vacuum valves on Ebay that are air actuated and the cost $480.00 new and I got one for about $27.00. I then got a doubble ported one for about $35.00 so it all started that way.

[farmall h]

Well I too fall asleep thinking out my design. Guess it is better than counting sheep.:) Are you using the small ss liquid level floats inside the kegs?

[Haynes Forest Products]

Im using a $12.00 plastic float from Grainger. With the time delay switch that Im using the float can operate either open or closed it will activate the switch and set the releaser in motion. You can find them on Ebay cheap also. Whats nice is they screw into a 1/2" NPT port.

[farmall h]

yup, Haynes, I have ordered the inexpensive floats from Grainger and the Asco valves are left over from work place. Gathering parts everyday ...or should I say "scrounging" parts.:)

[Gary R]

In keeping to the wishes of Mapleman3, I'll add some pictures and progress of my releaser on the thread. Maybe this can be a one stop shop for types of homeade releasers.

I'm making mine out of 6" PVC. I went with that size because I could get enough volume for the height I wanted to stay under. I spent extra to get a male to female connection in the middle of it. This way I can open it up and clean it after the season. I have the time delay relay from Granger (thanks Haynes!). Float from Sweetwood Maple; thanks. The pump, releaser and trap will all be mounted on a sheet of 3/4" plywood in my barn. I will be getting some NO and NC, 3/4" brass soleniod valves soon. They'll come of off machines we'll be scrapping from work. It will be a few more weeks before I get everthing together. Then I plan on running it for days to see if it works. I hope it does:)

Haynes, I haven't been able to see your video. We don't have high speed at home. Videos don't work well on an air card. I'll help empty barrels also.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Gary Im thinking of making a releaser that uses a diaphram pump that when actuated by a time delay switch and float it will be strong enough to over come the vacuum and will suck the tank dry and shut down. A few check valves will keep the vac from reversing the pump. Cleaned out the garage and need a project to keep me off the couch:)

[Gary R]

That sounds interesting. Seems just like an electric releaser. The biggest drawback I'm finding about those is the cost of the pump. You need a good pump to develope enough pressure to overcome the vacuum in the tank. It's hard to tell, but my releaser is right next to my air compressor. Maybe use an air operated double diaphram pump? Keep us posted.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Gary its not the pressure its the vacuum it can pull. If the vacuum in the tank is 24 hgs and the diaphgram pump can only pull 20 hgs things are not going to happen:mad:

[jrthe3]

gary why couldn't you use air to push sap out of releaser


hanes did you have to get a seporate base for your time delay relay if so what was the part number for it

[jrthe3]

hanes is that time switch a on delay or an off delay

[Gary R]

Boyd,

You would have to help me on that. I'm not sure how that would be done. When the solenoid opens to atmospheric, the sap falls out.

You need a base for the relay. When you view it, there is an accessory. The base. I think both were about $80. Maybe you could PM me some info on your patented releaser please.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Yes there is a seperate base that you need its about $8.00 they can tell you the one you need for that relay. Crap I dont know what it is if its on or off or Im thinking there is a switch to go either way. The nice thing about this relay is that when contact open or closed ( depending on the type of float) the contacts close starting what ever you have hooked up and the time delay ( time you set for the contacts to stay closed) starts. I got one that needed the float to close and then open within a second to actuate the relay. That wouldnt work because the sap needs to dump and lower before the relay actuated closing the contacts.

[Gary R]

To operate the relay, you must provide a short across two contacts. So, the float must close when the releaser is full. I plan on putting a push button switch in parallel with the float. That way I can manually dump the releaser. There are two sets of contacts operated by the time delay. One is NO, the other NC. If you did not have a NO solenoid valve on the vacuum pump line, you could use a NC valve. The valve would hooked to the NC contacts and be energized at all times. When the float is made, power would be lost to the valve and it would close, shutting off vacuum to the releaser.

If I knew how to draw a schematic on the computer, I would. It would help some of us know how it is hooked up.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Gary I think we are thinking to much alike if you look at my youtube video you will see a wire with black tape hanging down from the relay on the left side. Yup when I find a good water proof push button switch it will be installed in the door so I can mauelly dump. AS I stated I didnt start out trying to make a simple releaser I wanted to make one using parts that I had laying around. Thats why I have indicater lights in the door that show the vacuum pump is running, Compressor is working and its in the dump cycle. Im Plannimg on adding a normally open switch to the numatic line between the dump valve and switch so that when the timer shuts down the unit it will dump the sap so it wont freeze. With my design the sap can flow thru the releaser when its off.

[farmall h]

Haynes, sorta decided to go manual operation with the pvc releaser instead of using solenoid valves. Going to try and copy the milking machine washer as posted on you tube...just a larger version. Will keep you posted.:)

[Gary R]

OK, after months of not much maple, I finally got this thing running. I put about 20 gal. of water in a bulk tank behind the wall in the pictures. I have a 1/4" OD tubing going from the sap in line to the tank. I ran the pump for about 5 hours yesterday. The releaser filled and dumped well. The releaser is dumping about 2 1/2 gal. This is more than I wanted, but it will work for more taps if needed;) There are a few more details I need to finish. The wires hanging from the float will go into the box to a momentary switch to manually dump the releaser. I also need to put an indicator lamp on. There is a hose that goes to the vacuum pump. I will change that to soft copper. The hose is colapsing due to the vacuum. I had pump issues and had to rebuild it.

[Gary R]

I got all my drops in two days ago. My tubing is complete! I plumbed up a bigger vacuum pump yesterday. I put vacuum to the entire system. I had 24in. at the releaser and 23in. at the end of my main line about 850 feet away. I think I my have some leaks at the releaser as the pump will go to 29in. Sunday afternoon I'm going to put buckets of water on the farthest tap. I'll suck that back through the releaser and into the tank. I'll then check my vacuum levels and see how the sap ladders are working. Should be exciting.

[sweetwoodmaple]

Hey Gary! Looks like good progress on the releaser, thanks for the photos!

Looks like you have a very compact system...but I do have a question....I spent great pain and suffering on my "contraption" developing a secondary tank that keeps vacuum on the system and collects sap while the primary tank is dumping. In the photo, it is the first ring of 3" pipe. When things are really moving, or when I am starting up, the 25 seconds my releaser takes to dump almost fills up this secondary tank.

I don't see a secondary tank in your system. Does yours dump quick enough not to allow the vacuum to drop in the sugarbush?

Or, perhaps you are doing an electric releaser and not a manual one.

[Gary R]

Hi Brian!

You should stop by some day. Your float is working well.

I do not have a secondary tank. The releaser only takes 6 or 7 seconds to dump 2 1/2 gal. I do have a check valve and a small vacuum reservior on the sap in line. I'm sure I'm losing some vacuum in the woods during a dump. Today I'm going to do testing with water. I should be able to get some idea of how much loss. The pump recovers pretty quick and I'll be using check valve adaptors to reduce bacteria in the hole. Who knows, maybe next year I'll modify the releaser so I can keep deep vacuum at all times.

[farmall h]

Gary you should make a manifold out of 8" pvc about 2-3ft. long and mount it horizontally in front of your releaser. Plumb it with a check valve where your sap enters the releaser and install a smaller vac line from the manifold to the releaser. By doing this the vacuum will stay steady on the mainlines and the manifold will continue to fill with sap as your releaser is in dump mode.

[Gary R]

farmall H, I don't understand the manifold plumbing. But I don't think I need the manifold. I tested the system today and things went great. My sap in line only fell to about 22in. during the dumps today.

I hauled about 20 gal. of water today to the furthest tap. I stuck one drop in a 5 gal. bucket and let the vacuum suck the water back to the bulk tank. I have two 5ft. ladders and a 14ft. ladder. It took about 10 gal. of water before all the ladders were working and the releaser was dumping. At that point my vac at the end of the mainline was only about 12-15in. I found one of my saddles was leaking. I tightened it up and it was pretty steady at 20in. at the end of the main. The pump and releaser were at 25in. Before I was sucking water the pump and releaser would do about 27in. Once the system was tightened up it was sucking almost 1 gal. per minute. I'm guessing that would be more than peak flow on a great day. So across the three ladders I was losing about 5-6in. of vac. I was pretty exciting seeing my vac system work for the first time. I did get pretty tired of running back an forth to each end of the system:)

[sweetwoodmaple]

Gary - If you have access to heat where the releaser is located, it is probably easier to convert yours into an electric. All you need is a pump to hook up in place of the bottom flapper valve and you don't have to worry much about dump rates or losing vacuum.

[Gary R]

My original idea was to make an electric releaser. The more I learned about them from here, problems arose. You need a quality pump to overcome the vacuum in the releaser. It would be a total redesign on this unit. The solenoid valves would have to go. Then I would have to use the relay to drive the pump or a motor starter. My time delay relay is set for 10 seconds. It dumps the 2 1/2 gal. in less than that time. My sap line to the bush only falls to 22in. during the dumps. I think I'll leave well enough alone. I can't handle the expected sap volume as it is. We'll see how the season is and go from there. Thanks to everyone for all the ideas. I listen to every one of them and try make something work with what I have.

Maybe others could add to this thread with their homemade releasers. Give us the details on how it works!

[ejmaple]

i have a question about home made releasers. i'am clueless when it comes to vac setups but i just purchesed an old alamo 60 and now need a releaser, i'am fairly handy and a plumber by trade. i have a few stainless inclosed tanks about 30 gal range that i think will stand up to vac. my question is can i make one of these tanks into an electric releaser using a dc pump. the issue is the end of the bush is 1500' away from any power and would rather not use a genny. any one use a dc pump for a releaser?

[farmall h]

Gary, no doubt that the way you have it set up won't work. The reason for the manifold (look at a Bernard or Lapierre in action on "you tube") is to have steady vacuum on your mainlines. When your solenoid shuts the vac off to your releaser it also shuts the vac off to your mainlines. Granted your lines are tight and leakfree...but you have that dump cycle that stops your vac to the mainline. It would be easy to do and then you would have constant vac.

[sweetwoodmaple]

Gary,

Here is my recommendation (Like farmall h recommends as well).

Your setup is pretty nice, I may have to make one when mine needs replaced.

[Gary R]

Wow Brian! I need to learn how to do that. Sorry farmall h, pictures work best for me:) Sometimes I have a hard time following written directions. I have the pipe. I'd just need to buy the adapters and bush down, about $30. So who wants all this extra sap?:lol:

Thanks!

[DrTimPerkins]

I don't imagine that pump is rated for continuous duty (if that is the pump you're going to use during the season). To be on the safe side, I would put the entire pump in a small metal tray and keep anything that is combustible away from it. Maybe add a fan blowing over it to keep it a little cooler. If it isn't too much trouble, adding a larger oil reservoir would help keep it cool.

While this design may work (although as others have said, it might not), you'll probably find that if it does you will get a significant back-surge of sap in the lateral lines each time it dumps. This will introduce microbes into the taphole and cause them to close up sooner (unless your entire lateral/dropline/spout system is brand new each year), reducing your sap yield. Generally you want to avoid sap backflow from happening if you can. The Leader CV spout adapters would definitely help reduce that problem with this type of setup.

[sweetwoodmaple]

yes, good warning on continuous duty. I have a large industrial vacuum pump that I got for free and it only came with a small motor (1/2 hp for 12 cfm!). I instantly upgraded to a TEFC 1.5 hp motor. I also added an air/oil cooler and circulating pump for the oil flood. I did that with some transmission coolers that you buy at the auto parts store. Cool oil = higher vacuum and less atomizing. Still, I do need a better reclaimer and I'm all set.


On the surge note, I added a restictor valve to the line between the vacuum pump and the releaser tank. Even though it adds cycle time, it will soften the surge that will happen when the pump is trying to evacuate the 2-1/2 gallon reservoir. And...it will make sure the sugarbush itself receives priorty on the vacuum supply.


(Dr. Tim...thanks for the post about CFM's....tough not to write a book, but you boiled it down nicely)

[Gary R]

Dr. Perkins,

The pump in the picture is a Gast dry rotary vane. I am going to use it as a back up. I used it for initial testing of the releaser. Last spring I contacted Gast. I asked them for their recommendations on a pump that will run 24/7, a month straight. Gast pointed me to their 2000 series which is bigger than this one and has a fan built into the coupling. The pump I intend to use is pictured below. It is a Leybold, two stage rotary vane. I do not know if it is continuous duty. We use these on vaporized hydrogen peroxide sterilizers. They are enclosed in a cabinet and some customers will run these 12 hours straight. There may be a few minutes break between hour long cycles. I might move them to the concrete floor, just in case. Thanks for the advice.

Of course I already have the latest check valve adapters:)

[DrTimPerkins]

Leybold, two stage rotary vane. I do not know if it is continuous duty.... I might move them to the concrete floor, just in case.

That pump should do OK. Probably not rated for continuous duty, but you won't be working it too terribly hard. It's a nice machine, so I'd imagine it'll do fine. You'll definitely get decent vacuum with it, and with 100 taps you shouldn't have a problem with inadequate CFM movement. You might reduce its life-span a bit though by running it all the time. Nice to have the spare pump just in case. It's small enough to be able to put it a bit away from other things in case it does get real hot. Floor might be a little cooler place for it as well.

[sweetwoodmaple]

Ha...good one Gary. You were just seeing if we were paying attention. ;)

Looks like a nice pump. More efficient that running mine, and less mess.

My pump had an undersized motor because it is a two stage, and the applications are suppose to be high vacuum (28"+) and using the second stage (which is less cfm) for the continuous duty.

[Jim Brown]

Gary; I'll leave a tank at your place for over flow of sapand pick it up twice a day if necessary!

[jrthe3]

got started on my next project a double releaser got a good start now just waiting for my ebay valves to come i will post some pics as soon as i get them loaded hope to have video of it working

[jcb]

Ok here is a question, what about all this nonfood grade PVC be in contact with the sap. Is this a problem? Has anyone looked into it? I use some now and have wonderd if it was not ok. A co-worker told me today that he thinks it could leach cemicals into the sap.

[DrTimPerkins]

...what about all this nonfood grade PVC be in contact with the sap. Is this a problem?

Some PVC is food grade, some is not.

[jcb]

Here is some info I found:


How Do I Tell If it Is Food Grade Plastic?
updated: January 1, 2010

I want to do this! What's This? ..
Only seven types of plastic are considered "food grade" by the U.S. Food & Drug Administration. Plastics used to package food must be of high quality and cannot contain harmful dyes or chemicals. The Society of Plastics Industry has established a seven-point system of categorizing and labeling food-grade plastics. Learning how to tell if a plastic container is food-grade plastic is easy. Look for a triangle-shaped label with rounded corners made of three arrows, then check the number in the center to determine what type of plastic is in the container.

.1-PET (or PETE)
Polyethylene terephthalate (PET) is used most often in bottles carrying carbonated drinks because it has better gas-containing properties than other plastics. It is most commonly used for soda bottles, beer and detergent.

2-HDPE
High-density polyethylene (HDPE) is the plastic of choice for milk and juice jugs and other such item that need to be held in a rigid container. Not only does HDPE have superior moisture-resistant properties, it is also resistant to chemical and detergents used in the household. In addition to milk bottles, HDPE can be found in 5-gallon food buckets and disposable shopping bags. It is important to note that not all HDPE containers are considered food-grade. If they are not labelled specifically as "food safe," the container should be lined with a food-grade plastic bag before storing food in it.

3-Vinyl (PVC)
Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) is used in all manner of food wraps. It is transparent and strong and clings very well to food when used as a wrap, but it also allows enough oxygen through its surface for products that need to "breathe," such as fresh meats. Garden hoses and shoe soles are also often made with PVC, as are the white plastic pipes used for household plumbing.

4-LDPE
Low-density polyethylene (LDPE) is similar to HDPE, but is more flexible and is used to make squeeze bottles and tubing. It is clear and very strong and is often used as a food wrap and garbage bags. It is also used as a coating for milk cartons.

5-PP
Polypropylene (PP) is perfect for containing products that are bottled while hot and allowed to cool before shipment. It has a high melting point and is often used to contain foods that are packaged when hot, such as ketchup or maple syrup. It is very strong and can be used for twist-on caps and lids, such as the type on soda bottles, and drinking straws used at fast-food restaurants. Mass marketed plastic storage containers like Tupperware and Rubbermaid are often made of PP.

6-PS
Polystyrene (PP) is an excellent insulator and is often injected with air to make foam packing products such as egg cartons, coffee cups and meat trays. More rigid forms of polystyrene are used to make cafeteria trays.

7-Other
All other types of plastics are denoted with the "7-Other" designation, and cover a wide range of materials including acrylic, fiberglass, nylon and polycarbonate. Plastics labeled as grade 7 should be specifically noted as being "food safe" before they are used to package or handle food.

[jrthe3]

all the pipe i use is left over from water mains that i have put in at work so it got to be food grade it is SDR

[DrTimPerkins]

all the pipe i use is left over from water mains that i have put in at work so it got to be food grade it is SDR

Plastic materials used should be either rated as food grade or water potable. If it is good for drinking water (such as water mains or piping), it is fine to use for sap (but may not be good for applications where it contacts HOT sap or syrup). If it is DWV pipe (drain, waste, vent) it is definitely not suitable.