RO valves

[Maplewalnut]

Decided to go with a combo of PVC and tubing to plumb RO. The three way valve panel looks even more confusing to me so I'll venture out without it. In any case I am envisioning a fernco from both the sap and permeate tanks (which are outside) to a valve then PVC into the sugarhouse to a T and another valve before it hits the RO feed pump. Of course I'll have it pitched to drain it every night.

My question- I plan on using the knife gate valves inside the sugarhouse but are they durable enough to use outside on the bulk tanks also or should I bite the bullet and look at some brass valves? I plan on running some heat tape around the pvc pipe outside to help prevent freezing but ultimately this piping may be buried under feet of snow from the roof.


Mike

[brookledge]

I used the plastic 1/4 turn valves outside and had no problems. I don't ever let them freeze up solid. When it is going to be real cold I make sure they are not filled. I have stainless valves on my bulk dairy tanks.
Also Another thing you could do on your lines coming in is use a larger size piece of pipe like 4" pvc and then put your sap line inside it. If it freezes you can slide the hose right out of it. Especially if it is burried under snow.
Keith

[PATheron]

Mike- Ive always used the plastic pvc valves outside at the tanks too. I use a fernco on the milk tank and go right to the pvc and then put a valve like you said. I think that will work ok but if you dont have real good pitch they are apt to freeze up. Ive had a lot of problems with that. If you have a drain it will help a lot. Ive never had the ferncos come off the tank. Im not sure what you were saying about the three ways but last year when I plumbed up the two ro's I didnt want to use them so I used all single valves and mounted them to the wall. When it was all built I realized it was just too confusing and had to tear it out basically. You only have one ro so thats better but what I found works good is on the output side of the ro for your permeate its no problem just run that to your perm tank but on the concentrate side what may work nice is use a three way and have it so one way it sends it to your head tank and the other way it sends it to a recirc line that goes back in your tank. Im assuming that your ro will have its own valves to direct both the perm and the concentrate to the wash tank. That would be a good fix. The other thing I do and its probly becouse Im paranoid is my concentrate line that goes to the head tank and the recirc line that goes back in the tanker I have so when Im all done and I put the ro on wash I go out and physically pull the lines out of the tanks and let them hang over the side. If you were to mess up when your all tired and you send soap suds into the concentrate it is very bad. Number one it will have to be thrown out and number two say theres 400 gallons of 20% in that head tank your talking thousands of dollars. Remember your always tired and usually stressed. Theron

[caseyssugarshack93]

The 3 way valve panel is the way to go, easy to use

[Russell Lampron]

Keeping things simple and organized in the valve department is very important. Over the years I have streamlined mine a lot so that I don't pump RO soap into the feed tank or pump the contents of my bulk tank onto the ground. Once you have them figured out and labeled the 3 ways work good.

[Maplewalnut]

Alright, I'm taking some heat on the decision to plumb without 3-way valves. I know enough when to know when I made a wrong move so I have some 3 ways on order.

Theron- I agree, as much as I love sugaring it does get long and stressful at times, especially after working the '9-5 job' during the week.

Mike

[maplwrks]

Mike -- Remember one thing---No one on this site needs to operate your equipment. Design it, and build it like you want! I personally hate 3 way valves and built my own valve manifolds. Is it what everyone else would do? Probably not....But it works real well for me!!

[Brian Ryther]

Mike and Mike,
The best part of this site is that you can make your own decisions based on other peoples experiences. Mike C. Your RO room is set up based on a lot of experence. One of the things you showed me is that when you use a manifold system like yours you have to, or should consider, using the low pressure hose as you fail safe if you should dead head the system. While trying to set up the ro room for the first time I had regretted purchasing the three way valves. They seamed to make things more confusing. After using them I was glad to have them. They give you one less thing to screw up. Dead heading the RO could be a big thing to screw up. I bet even more so with the Lapierre HP pumps since the have plastic impellers.
Brian

[Maplewalnut]

Mike C I agree with you completely and at the same time recognize this is why the site is so great. I defer to the experts for advice and recommendations on subjects I know nothing about but ultimately it is my dollar spent and my time invested.

I especially owe lots to this site since seasoned experts in north east PA are few and far between so my local network for advice is almost nonexistent.

I personally only offer advice on startup topics to spare you guys from answering basic questions newbies might have. As far as valving I have seen it both ways but realized only my own ignorance prevented me from going the 3 way route.

[PATheron]

Mike- I didnt want to use the three ways either and I did mine with all singles. The main problem with mine was with two ro's and wanting to recirc with both of them plus head both of them to the headtank and have to use manual valves to run the second ro output into my cdl washtank with so many functions it got so complicated even I couldnt run it and I built it. Probly with one ro its not near as big a deal. Plus your ro will have valves already on it for the wash tank so its going to be way simpler. Try to go see someones setup near by if you can or maybe we can get you some pics. I will be plumbing mine up again soon with the new upgrades and Ill try to make myself take some pics. I have pics for Casey of my bricking on my old evap I just never take time to do stuff like that but I really will try to get you some soon as I get mine plumbed up. Like Christian said take in what everybody else does and use the bits and pieces you like. My stuff is more complicated becouse Im always trying to a lot without spending the huge money like running used ro's and different things. Makes it a little more complicated but a guy can only afford so much really at a time. Theron

[802maple]

It isn't the impellers that go believe it or not but the flow meters will blow in many directions first.

[Maplewalnut]

So I am starting to plumb everything together after getting my three way panel. Any reason why I can't take the wash and drain lines into a Y and have a single discharge? One to the wash take and one to drain? I could valve the two downstream of the panel to isolate if need be


I am looking at the same situation for a recirc line. Y it off and one line back to the holding tank and one line to my evaporator feed tank?

Mike

[Brian Ryther]

Mike,
You want the wash line to go back to the wash tank. You will be recirculating the wash solution until it is up to temp. You can y together the Concentrate and Permiate drain lines. They will both be going to the same destination.

[Maplewalnut]

Thanks Brian- I thnk I should have been more specific. I have one wash line valve from the conc side and one from the filtrate side. Can I combine those two into a single line going into the wash tank? I know wash and drain lines are separate but I have one conc and one filtrate for each right?

[Brian Ryther]

Sorry Mike. You are correct. You can, and should, y together the two wash lines. No need for isolation valves. The concentrate line barely runs and the perm. line runs full blast. With out the HP pump running there is not enough pressure to push much of the cleaning solution across the membrane.