I've got Zero questions

[maple flats]

I am heading out in a few minutes to look at a 1000 gal Zero vac tank (he can't find where he put the gaskets). The price sounds right @ $700 and it is not still in the milk house.
Are gaskets still available? Where?
If not available is there a way to make gasket?
I also will stop and look at and likely buy a surge pump on the way back. The pump has a 3.5 HP motor. $50. I'll try to figure if it is an SP11 or @@ later. I'll have up to 550 taps on it next season and maybe 8-900 within a couple of years if I can draw from the other side of the road and a few feet lower.
When I buy these I'll ask all sorts of questions on how to proceed.
Even if I can't get this tank to vac it is still a good deal.

[maplecrest]

the gaskets are 350 bucks. i have a set i would sell you i bought for a tank this spring

[Haynes Forest Products]

Make sure that you look on the oposite end of the tank from the drain at the very top to see if its a vacuum tank. Not all tanks made by Zero are high vacuum tanks. I have pictures to prove it:mad:

[maple flats]

How do I know, is it labeled Vacuum? At any rate I bought it for $600, 1000 gal. Looks to be in good shape but some seals and gaskets might be iffy. He did not use it as a vacuum tank claiming he used a glass receiver for some reason to do with filter plugging too often it a tank is used for milking cows. Not sure if he knew but it sounded ?. It has been unused since his cows were sold in 1999. He did find the 2 main gaskets which are real dusty and grimey. What can they safely be cleaned with.These gaskets are maybe 2" wide, forming a circle big enough to fit the manhole covers with 2 ridges on one side. The main covers don't fasten down, they just sit on the gaskets. Does this sound like a vac tank? I did not see a volumn label but the outer cover measures 54" round and just 10' long. I guessed the inside diam might be about 4' and if exactly 4'x10' perfect cylinder it works out to about 935 gal if my rounding off didn't mess up the calculations too much, so it could be 1000. Does anyone have an estimate of empty weight? I'm figuring out what I'll haul it back with. They have a huge payloader that can load it and I have some web slings and heavy ratchet straps that will reach around to suspend it from the payloader bucket. Just need estimated weight to get the right class trailer.

[maplehound]

Most of these tanks arn't very heavy, although I am not sure of the exact weight. Also if it doesn't say that it isn't vaccume able then it probably is, since those that arn't ussually are mark DO NOT VACUUM.
If the gaskets arn't good then you can make new gaskets from dense foam rubber, like is used for anti fatique mats or heavy foam padding, if the lid isn't going to be used to open on a regular basis then seal if further with duct tape.

[maple flats]

I'm thinking this tank should be well under 2000# maybe close to 1000# do you agree? My 2 sunset tanks are likely 300-450#, but I think this Zero must be heavier if it is infact a vacuum tank. Does everyone agree, if not vacuum it will be labeled "do not vacuum"

[markct]

cant help ya on weight, but i know my 400 gal zero vac tank sure feels atleast 1000lbs or so when i had it loaded on my truck, just kinda a gut feeling on how the truck sat and drove compared to other loads of known weight. as for gaskets and covers i attached some pics of modifications i made to mine. i wanted to be able to see the sap flowing in and how much was in the tank so i made flanges and attached lexan windows to the covers. and then to help hold the covers down to prevent tampering or theft, or the wind blowing them off when the vac wasnt on, and since the tank is at a semi remote location, i tig welded on little studs and made little tabs to hold the lids down

[DS Maple]

You can make gaskets out of weather stripping found at your local hardware store. Experiment with different types and figure out what works best. The stuff I use is dense foam with adhesive on one side. It has to be replaced 1-2 times per season, but one package for like $5 is enough to make a couple gaskets. Not sure of the weight, but would guess around 1000 lbs. We just transport ours in the back of a 1-ton, and the truck doesn't look or feel like it has a load on it.

[maple flats]

Markct, mine looks very much like that, except I think mine has slightly more dome shape outward on the ends. It might just be the camera angle. How much vacuum can you safely draw with yours?
THanks,
Dave

[maple flats]

This one also has 2 agitator motors and paddles. I'll want to remove those and seal the openings.

[brookledge]

My 400 gal has the word vacuum on one end. I run it at 17.5 to 18" of Hg. I don't want to have it implode so I don't go any higher than that. Plus I only have a dairy pump on it so high vac is not an option on that line.
Keith

[sugarmaker43]

I bought a 800 gallon Zero and it is not a Vacuum model. I did get a new gasket for the lid from Claude Morin farm equipment in Derby Line Vt. Had it in stock for around $80 cash. He knows everything it seems about tanks from selling and servicing. Number is 802-895-4159 if this helps anyone. He also has some nice tanks for storage there but are on the expensive side. Better off finding them from the farmers or each other.

[markct]

Markct, mine looks very much like that, except I think mine has slightly more dome shape outward on the ends. It might just be the camera angle. How much vacuum can you safely draw with yours?
THanks,
Dave


yea the ends on mine are domed, cant realy see it in the pic. i ran 15 in vac on it cause thats about what my dairy pump seemed to do well with. the tag on the end says T-20 vacuum tank. i was told by one old timer that meant it was rated to take up to 20 in of vac, not sure on that. but plan to run it up maybe 18 or so this year on my new pump. i had no problems with the lids moving and not resealing with the tabs like some people talk about with the lids and duct tape and straps etc. at the end of the season i just loosened them and went inside and and washed the tank out

[maple flats]

I hauled the new tank to the sugarhouse yesterday. Now I am going to study it and try to determin what I need to do to hook this up. I will run a test of vacuum this summer before setting the tank at the bush. Haven't picked the pump up yet. Will try later today, but the seller might be out of town for the holiday weekend (being a physician), If so I will get it next week.
To haul it I rented a 6x12 open deck trailer from uhaul. It worked very well. (Would have used my own but it has brake and light issues, I need to go thru it completely). At the pick up site they have a BIG payloader, I took a heavy duty ratchet strap, wrapped it around the tank (has 4 legs each side) between 1-2 against 2 and then hooked each end to the payloader bucket, one in front and one in back. I repeated with the second and it was slung about a ft or so below the bucket. Then he lifted, carried it to the trailer and set it perfectly on the trailer. To level while lowering he only had to roll the bucket. I strapped it down good and headed back. After getting back I did the same thing using my 4 ton mini excavator. The exc. being so small and having to hold the weight out in front farther than I would have liked I just lifted and held it while I drove the trailer from under it, then I moved the weight closer to the cab and drove to where I wanted to set it for now. I got to thinking after I should have set it on planks so the legs stay up enough to get a strap in the next time I need to move the tank, I'll do that this morning.
What do I need (assuming it will hold vac) to set this up and use it? Can I remove the agitator motors or is there no good way to seal the openings? What must be done to pump sap out? Can I hold vac and pump against it or must I lose vac during pumping? If I can pump under vac what sort of pump is used? (or do you lower the vac without going to zero?)
I'm sure I will have a long list of questions after I get started but I am now going to study my new prize.

[maplehound]

Maple Flats
I have never used a tank this size but on my 300 gallon tanks I have always put them on skids made of 2x6 and drill a hole an 1 1/2" deep that the legs go into to keep it stable. Also each of the skids have a 45 deg angle cut off each end so I can pull (or push) the tank to where I want it moved.
I attach my vacuum line to the hole that contains the dip stick and I make a manifuld for my inlet lines to come into that is placed where the agitator motor goes. My lids have holes in them that I pump the sap out of. I use deep well pump to pump my tank without releasing the vacuum. To do that you will need a one way check valve to seal the tank when not pumping.

[maple flats]

That sounds like a good method. How many taps do you have on it to get enough vac transfer thru the dip stick hole? That is only about 3/4 maybe 1" on this tank. Seems like I would need a bigger hole, but maybe it would work if everything leading to that restriction was well above that size.
I water, from my irrigation days, you could use a small port as long as the pipes before and after were big enough. Might be the same for vac.

[maplehound]

That is what I figure. It is only narrowed down for a small distance and a 1" pipe fits nice and snug over it. Also I failed to tell you that since both of my lids have holes at the top, the one clocest to the drain has the deep well pump and wires coming out it, and the other one I put a racket ball on it to seal it up. That way when you want to shut the vacuum off and open the tank you just remove the ball and the pressure is released without the need to shut the pump off.

[maplecrest]

where the two agitators are is where i run my sap headers. a fernco fits vac snug in the hole and a two inch or larger pvc pipe fits vac tight in the fenco. then tee the pvc for hooking main lines. i capped each with threaded 1 inch end plugs and ran my wet in one and dry in the other. vac gauge in one of the holes in one cover.vac line on dip stick hole as maple hound said 1 inch fits.on the front of the tank will tell you if vac or not. you have to look pretty hard in white letters.i had a tank i thought said vac. but after i sucked it in. i cleaned off area real well and it said non vacuum.

[maple flats]

Only one of my lids has holes (3 I think) and then there are 2 motors for access. I could also take a lid to a welder (stainless weld) and add whatever I really want. Not sure if I'll go that route yet but keeping it as an option. Do any of you pump out the original valve, or does that freeze and prevent pumping at times? If that would work a complete pump down can be achieved more easily.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Maplecrest Looks like you and me both sent very nice NON VACUUM tanks to the scrap yard:mad: I also didnt see the very small lettering on the end.

Mapleflats I pumped from the bottom drain on my tank. I used a large plastic ball valve and a cam lock quick disconnect. I was worried about the valve breaking due to sap that remaines in the valve when its shut so I was careful to make sure that ALL the sap is drained before you shut the valve.

[maplehound]

you can pump from the valve and I have done so but if you want to pump against the vacuum, you can't beat a deep well pump. I even have a float on mine to empty the tank automatically if it gets too full. (I have 700 taps on a 300 gallon tank)
I know there a lot of diffrent designs of lids out there as far as what holes are in them. If you need more holes or less you can talk to your local dairy dealer they might have other lids around for exchange. However I just use the ball idea to releave the pressure since I have an extra hole, I sure wouldn't add one just so I could do that.

[maplecrest]

haynes the top u,ed in but rest is fine and still holds 950 gallons.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I need to get a picture on the site because mine looks like a pop can bent in two. It even bent the lids. Looks like a tree fell on it:mad: I did get my money back from Tri State Dairy Janesville Wisc. they said it was for vac:)

[maple flats]

I haven't yet seen a label saying VAC on mine, exactly where is this seen? Someone said the end opposite the valve, I have looked there but there are a lot of things to hide a label there. Do I need to remove any screwed on covers? How big is the identifier I am looking for?

[WMF]

Post a pic of the tank. Does the bottom half of the inside of the tank have small dimples? If so it is a vacuum tank and is safe to 20 inches maybe more if you feel lucky.

A releaser will set nicely on top of the tank and will eliminate a lot of problems and sap quality issues.

[Haynes Forest Products]

On my Zero tank the words NON VACUUM was on the oposite end from the drain. It was very faint lettering that was either sand blasted or acid etched into the SS so it blended in. I could only read it at a slight angle when the light was just right. I only saw it after the tank imploded:mad:

[maple flats]

I'll look for the dimples tomorrow.
Exactly where was your non vacuum tank marked non vacuum Haynes FP?

[Haynes Forest Products]

At the very top of the end about 3" from the lip oposite the drain end.

[maple flats]

I'll look, thanks.
Dave

[maple flats]

Looks not good. I see nodimples in the bottom of the inner tank and I see no label, neither vac nor "non vac". I'm beginning to think I got a non vacuum tank. Now I'll need to get a releaser. It was still a good price for 1000 gal, just not a super good as I hoped.
I'll have no electric at the site so I likely want a mechanical releaser. However, I still have the option to run a generator but I think mechanical would be better in this case. I'll start looking around. Will be about 550 taps and someday maybe, just maybe 700 or so if I go across the road ands use more sap ladders.

[brookledge]

On my zero vac tank I used bulkhead fittings to screw into the holes in the tank. At first I was wondering how I was going to get threaded fittings welded etc. and then I reralized I could use the bulkhead fittings in what ever size I needed
Keith

[maplehound]

Maple flats,
Do you see any where on the tank a label that says T20 if so You should be safe to vacuum it to 20 lbs. Most Zero's that are not vacuum tanks are marked "DO NOT VACUUM" if you don't see that then it probably is a vacuum tank.

[longbeard]

I have a 400 gal. zero tank that has been used for vacuum for many years by the previous owner (1 yr. for me) so thought I would try to see if (where) it tells me it is a vacuum tank.
It still has the original metal tank description on the end opposite the drain - but nowhere can I find either vacuum or non-vacuum on the data shield.
It has size of WV400 and Model FOL 400!!
Also has a note of Suction Temp. of 30 degrees F. - not sure if this is any help - also see no dimpling on bottom (maybe looking in wrong place)?

[maple flats]

I'll look closer then. I looked carefully at the end opposite the valve, at the top , about 3" down from the seam where the SS meets the non SS. I see nothing there yet. I might try getting the paint removed to see if it is covered by paint. Just an inch or so lower than this 3" below the seam, there is a SS cover screwed in place, could it be burried by this cover. The cover circles around the upper 1/3 of the end, and about 4" or so from the juncture of the SS and plain steel seam (and following that seam below where the SS ends. I could unscrew these and pull the SS covering to see below if anyone thinks it may be lower. I see no ref. to either vac or non vac.

[maple flats]

I checked more tonight. I still see no markings. What I do find is Model 627-D Code K65 Ser# 9277 and etched into one outer rim of one of the openings in the top (It looks like might have been done on site) is 78421. Might be date put into service, Apr 21, '78?. I did get good measurements on the inside and did the math, I come up with 1004 gal, so 1000 must be about right. It seems like Zero didn't want people to know if it was vacuum or they would have been prouder of it.

[maple flats]

Update, I used the tank during the 2011 season. I ran at 18-19" vacuum and it did not fail.

[treefinder]

i had a zero tank i just sold to a guy. and mine said non vaccum on the end of the tank but the fella i bought it from said it was painted on at the milk plant were he got it. i used it for 5 years and ran 20-22 inches . never used a regulator either. but i only use dairy pumps and at the most it might have pulled 26 when frozen.

[IHSNIPE]

i HAVE 3 zero tanks, if the model says wv400 that means v for vacuum and 400 is the gallons 1 inch from the top rim. this model can be found on the rear of the tank opposite the drain. I run both of my 400 gallon tanks at a full 30 inches of vacuum no prob. The 1000 gallon tank is next, as I have not used it yet.