filter press pump

[jasonl6]

Anyone know what kinda of pump is used on the filter presses? How many psi and the gpm? Looking at making a press and can't find that info. Maybe more specificly what are the commercial units using.


Thanks
jason

[Haynes Forest Products]

They use a bronze Oberdorfer pump that is 1/2 ports . You can find them on Ebay under gear pumps. Expect to pay $300.00 for them. When it comes to gear pumps pressure is dependent on HP and HP depends on pully ratio and the motor. Same as GPM its pump size and pully ratio.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Ebay has a few pumps but they have 1/4" ports and thats to small. You will see some that have pressure relief bypass valves on them. The bypass just adds cost and isnt needed. I think The filter aid raises heck with the bypass so i would not get one. Teel also makes a gear type and Dayton (Grainger)

You dont want aluminum or cast.

[TF Maple]

I Googled pumps and only found one that gave specifications. Filters 2 gallons per minute, 1/3 HP. 1725 RPM gear pump for 7 in filter press. I see Atkinson's in Canada has a used 1/2 inch gear pump for $135. Most maple supply places have them so you can check their sites to find a pump model, then check auction sites for a similar pump.

[802maple]

Also pump that will create more than 60lbs will most likely blow paper filters. I should rephrase that when your papers create more than 60lbs they will blow.
Alot of filter presses come with pneumatic diaphram pumps and you can set them at the pressure you would like to pump at and it will not pump any higher than that, but you will need a air compressor

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I wouldn't run a filter press without a bypass valve. Yes, it slows down filtering but it helps you get the last 2 or 3 gallons thru that you wouldn't if you didn't have it and I can't see where it creates any extra noise.

[802maple]

That is what I like about the pneumatic pump it will also let you get the last through. You set it on 50 lbs and it will never go above that.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Im confused if your pump stops filtering due to build up on the filters how does a bypass help? My press has a guage that shows that im pushing 100PSI and Im not blowing papers. I do tighten my plates with a cheater bar and have a cover for the plates so I dont take showers of syrup if I start the press when its cold.

[802maple]

You must be using kryptonite filter papers as I have never been able to get over 60 psi very often. LOL

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

What the bypass valve does is exactly the same as the name. It lets you bypass some of the syrup going thru the papers and the bypass hose runs it back into the unfiltered syrup. The more you open the bypass valve, the slower the filtering rate of syrup, but still usually allows you to get 2 to 5 more gallons thru on a short bank and keep the pressure well below 60 without having to break down the press.

[Haynes Forest Products]

WVM I understand how and what a bypass valve does. But I still dont know why running less syrup at a lower pressure allows more syrup to go thru the filters? 802 Maple I run my press untill the needle is bouncing off the peg and the pump starts to squeal I only poped one filter and that was because I didnt use enough filter aid

[Russell Lampron]

By using the by-pass valve that Chuck says that you don't need you can use your filter press pump to pump syrup out of barrels without running it through the plates. It's a lot easier than having to tip the drum over to drain the syrup out.

[802maple]

I am not denying that you can do it, I just wondered what you do to allow it to happen or what you use for filters. We had a 10 inch press and I would put 24 12oz. cups of filter aid in the first batch of syrup and then a couple more every batch after that. This would allow me to filter up to 150 gallons and sometimes more. It is pretty common around here for papers to blow when they go over 60 lbs.

[driske]

Several other considerations;
I'll take the gentle tick-tock of an air pump over the clamorous chatter of a gear pump any day.
Much easier to regulate feed rate and it packs those papers tight!
Locate your compressor outside and enjoy a calmer work environment.
My Wilden has pumped something like 60,000 gallons of hot sediment loaded syrup fresh off the evaporator and is still going strong, 16 years and counting.

[maple flats]

With a gear pump you use the manual bypass as the pressure approaches whatever your filter papers can take. For some that is 20#, most i is 40-50-60, some might be higher. The idea is that when the guage gets to your top pressure you slightly open the bypass back to unfiltered syrup. With the pressure at lets say 50# you still continue to filter syrup and pump it into your canner or barrel, you just keep an eye on the guage and as more builds up you continue to open the bypass more until the flow gets too little thru the papers to proceed. At that point you need to shut off and change papers. If you had no bypass you would need to shut off far sooner and get less filtered per batch of papers.
With a little experience you learn how much filter aid (FA) to use to end up with the most filtered syrup and have the hollow cavities in the press plates completely full with a blend of niter and FA. The papers do not do the filtering, they just catch the FA. The FA IS the filter element. With the proper amount of FA for your syrup you get the most syrup filtered per batch. If you finish and the pressure rose very little and the plates are full you used too much FA, if you build too much pressure and shut down to change papers and the plates are not full or nearly full you used too little FA. The amount needed changes as the season gets later in most cases.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Guys Guys......Im being missunderstood here. I stated that some of the gear pumps on Ebay have Pressure relief bypass valves on them. They are the same pressure relief valves that are on hydraulic systems. I also used pressure relief valves on spray systems and pressure washers. The problem with a relief valve is they can stick due to solids in the liquid being pumped. The valve has a plunger that is spring loaded and slides up and down controlling the pressure and solids build up behind and on the walls of the valve causing it to stick and bind. That is why I said it wasnt a good idea to get a pump with the option on it PLUS the added cost.

802Maple I use the 7" presss and I use alot of DE and most everytime I have full filter plates so its hard to blow the papers.BUT can blow out the seams. That is why the cheater bar and cover over the filter bank.

[maplecrest]

so maple flats, if i understand you right you have syrup comming out of bypass valve into a pail. do you run that syrup thru with the next batch. how about that late season stuff that hits the paper like a brick wall? does it work for that too?

[TF Maple]

My Wilden has pumped something like 60,000 gallons of hot sediment loaded syrup fresh off the evaporator and is still going strong, 16 years and counting.

This sounds like a great pump, could you share the model number?

[maple flats]

Maplecrest, Let me explain how I use my filter press. First I heat the syrup to be filtered to about 200 degrees and then dump it into a funnel bottom pot I have who's first life was in a dairy barn as a dump station pot. This pot is SS and has a funnel built in and I connected a hose to the bottom spout that then feeds the press. My pot holds about 6 or 7 gal, but I do about 4-5 gal batches. If I have several batches to do, I heat them all to be ready.
I then mix in filter aid (FA) into the hot syrup. If early in the season I will add about 2 full heaping cups FA (as the season progresses I need more). From the funnel pot a vinyl hose runs to the gear pump. Out of the gear pump it goes to a 4 way cross, feeding into the bottom. On top is my pressure guage, out the rear is the high pressure hose to the filter plates and out the front is a ball valve and a hose off that going back to the top of the funnel pot. When I start the pump I have the bypass fully open and flowing back into the funnel pot. I direct the flow at the FA floating on the syrup and keep moving the stream around. This fully mixes the FA into the syrup. At the same time I have the hose from the filtered side of the filter plates (which has a SS 180 degree bend fitting on the outlet) hooked over the edge of the funnel pot. When the FA looks fully blended I slowly close the bypass valve until it is fully closed, forcing the syrup/FA blend thru the plates and papers. Filtered syrup then flows back into the funnel pot. I then watch both the pressure to adjust if needed to keep pressure at or below 50# on the guage and I look at the syrup returning until it looks crystal clear. When it is crystal clear I open the bypass valve to stop the flow from the hose of filtered syrup,. I then place that hose hook over the top edge of my canner and open the bypass valve again. In most cases I can leave the bypass fully or almost fully open for this batch. When the funnel pot is empty I repeat the process on my next batch. On a good run I can filter up to about 15 gal on a set of papers early in the season. My canner only holds 16 gal. Later in the season I may only get 5-6 gal on a set of papers. When the pressure starts to get near my 50# desired max I slightly open the bypass and allow a little to flow back into the funnel pot rather than forcing it thru the papers. As the papers get near the end of their useful life or as the hollow cavity in the plate seperating the waffle plates gets full I can not get anymore thru the papers. I open the bypass fully and shut off the pump motor. If i have more to filter and more room to put into canner I quickly open the press, empty out the filter cakes (a blend of FA and niter) and the papers. I rinse the hot plates in hot water, install new papers and resume filtering. As I said, early in the season when the syrup is light and if there is little niter I filter 15 gal/batch. If I barely had to open the bypass because of high pressure I sometimes but rarely check density (I usually draw slightly above syrup and dilute with distilled water or near syrup off the evaporator, if the canner is nearing full to capacity I use the distilled water because thinning with near syrup can add too much volumn), grade and pack into bulk what is in the canner and I continue filtering more batches until done. When done I either bottle the density corrected syrup or pack into bulk to bottle latter. When I am short on time and help more gets bulk packed at this time, if I have help they bottle some if needed.
Sorry to make this so long but I wanted to go step by step. If I lost you at anyplace just ask for a clarification.
Dave

[maplecrest]

dave you work at that way too hard. my question was , and will try the bypass into a pail. when i first start i have trouble with cold syrup in the line under the evap. i draw sometimes 30 gallons at a time and the press is slow to start. but after reading your answer i will try to circulate a little first, then run thru press

[Squaredeal]

I think that anyone in Vermont should reconsider investing in a new bronze gear pump. They and all lead containing fittings and pumps have been outlawed for water use (as of January 1st, 2010) -use for syrup and other food products is probably next.
Seems crazy, but bronze can contain a fair amount of lead, and when filtering syrup with DE (an abrasive) you are basically grinding bronze into the finished syrup. The gears are wear parts - as is the pump body and as larger producers will tell you, they don;t last that long.
I'm going to be replacing mine with a diaphragm pump.

o yeah -before anyone replies with the "I've bathed in lead all my life and I'm OK argument," read this http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs13.html

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I keep heat underneath my unfiltered syrup with DE mixed into it and any syrup that comes out of the bypass valve goes back into it and I keep running it this way until the unfiltered pan of syrup is empty or the press can't take anymore. this makes sure it all stays around boiling.

[DrTimPerkins]

I think that anyone in Vermont should reconsider investing in a new bronze gear pump. They and all lead containing fittings and pumps have been outlawed for water use (as of January 1st, 2010) -use for syrup and other food products is probably next.
Seems crazy, but bronze can contain a fair amount of lead, and when filtering syrup with DE (an abrasive) you are basically grinding bronze into the finished syrup. The gears are wear parts - as is the pump body and as larger producers will tell you, they don;t last that long.
I'm going to be replacing mine with a diaphragm pump.


This is correct. Pumping with a bronze gear pump will add lead to maple syrup. Excessive recirculation during filter press use should be avoided if you use this type of pump.

One should NOT pump SAP with a bronze gear pump. Sap is more acidic than syrup (typically) and will pick up more lead.

THINGS TO AVOID TO REDUCE LEAD IN MAPLE SYRUP

- The use of old metal spouts, buckets (terneplate or lead-soldered) and ESPECIALLY old milk cans
- Prolonged storage of sap in any galvanized or lead-soldered equipment
- Excess pumping using bronze gear pumps
- Storing sweet for days in a lead-soldered evaporator, or an evaporator with sugar sand that is high in lead
- Frequent acid cleaning of lead soldered pans
- Poor filtering
- Storing sap in old heavy galvanized barrels for long periods

It isn't especially difficult to make syrup with low (or non-detectible) lead levels, but it require that you pay attention to areas where lead exposure can be avoided or minimized.

We use an air-driven diaphragm pump and love it.

[maplecrest]

i was going thru a gear pump every 2500 gallons or so. the best investment i ever made was the air powered pump. i am planning on adding another bank to that pump this year so as one is working the other can be changed with out the mad rush or having to shut down.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Looks like maplecreast will be selling a bunch of Galvanized storage barrels. Heck sell them to KenWP I hear you cant have SS up in his part of Canada

[maplecrest]

haynes, there all going to parker no lead law in n.h. yet

[NH Maplemaker]

How big are these diaphragm pumps? How hard is it to chang them out ? Where can you get them? They sound alot better than the gear pumps! Jim L.

[802maple]

There are other places to get them but most of the maple equipment companies have them. They hook up easy, you may have to drill some holes in your frame to bolt them to, but other than that just take your motor and pump off and put the new one on and replumb it.

[Russell Lampron]

Anybody have pictures that they can post? I am interested in the diaphragm pump too. I have a hand pump now and I have an air compressor to run the air powered pump. I would like to know the details like price, sources other than maple dealers and things like that.

[802maple]

Russ, yours should be easy as yours is a diaphram pump already and should basically hook the same. I haven't looked but I would imagine Grainger would have them. I will do some looking around. They come all ready to go all you would have to do is hook a air regulator on it to maintain air pressure or if your compressor alraedy has one you wouldn't need it. Although it is easier to have it right at the filter press. Thet have 1/2 inch ports so all you would have to do is unhook yours from the plumbing and hook up the new one

[Haynes Forest Products]

Russ on your filter press do you have metal plates or the plastic? I believe that the diaphfram presses cant take the higher pressures.

[maplecrest]

they will blow papers, blow the hose off the press. there is more power there than you think.one problem i have is the air commpresser will trip the breaker. so i put the compresser on its own breaker. nothing like two draw off tanks full , draw off open to full bore and you trip a breaker and have to walk away from the rig to reset the breaker and get it going.poor planning on my part!

[Spike]

802, My filter press needs a new pump. After reading about the diaphram, sounds like a good idea. What sizes are we talking about? MSC, grainger should carry them, but what should I be asking for?

[sapsucker78]

Check out Indelco Plastics, they have a pretty good web site and have locations in about 5 or 6 states. I have got some things from the store in Minneapolis and have been happy with there prouducts. You will want to call for a quote though my experince has ben they will do a lot better then the prices on there web site. Good luck!:)

[Haynes Forest Products]

I do see the advantage of a air pump when it comes to cleaning the press. Mine sits on a SS sink counter and when Im cleaning it I hose it down with hot water. I have tripped the GFI more than once:mad: What CFM requirment do the pumps need?

[TF Maple]

[QUOTE=sapsucker78;112788]Check out Indelco Plastics, [QUOTE]

I just looked at their pumps and they have a 150 degree F maximum operating temp. and I would want to be running 200 F syrup through so there might be better suited pumps out there, but not sure yet.

[Russell Lampron]

In the research that I have done so far I have found that these pumps are made out of plastic, aluminum or stainless steel. They also come with a variety of diaphragm materials. Most of the ones with 1/2" NPT threads will do about 15 gpm and up to 125psi. I know that I don't want to run it over 60 psi and plan to add a by-pass valve and pressure gauge when I do the conversion.

It looks like it would be an easy upgrade to mount one of these pumps on my press just like Jerry said. Chuck my press is a Wes Fab with the same cast aluminum plates that their gear pump presses use. All of the other fittings are stainless so I won't have a problem there either.

[sapsucker78]

[QUOTE=sapsucker78;112788]Check out Indelco Plastics, [QUOTE]

I just looked at their pumps and they have a 150 degree F maximum operating temp. and I would want to be running 200 F syrup through so there might be better suited pumps out there, but not sure yet.

Are you sure you looked at all of them? I bought one of these 1/2" pumps from a maple dealer before I realized Indelco sold them. I sent pics of mine to the salesman I normaly deal with and he said he could get me the same thing in a Graco version in a 3/4" for around $500.00 Diaphragms are made out of differnt kinds materails and I can't remember what mine are. They might have access to some pumps that are not on the web site I would give them a call, tell them what you are doing and see what you find out.

[maplecrest]

looked in granger catolog and the pump i have is dayton alum. 1/2 inch ports and is $500.

[Russell Lampron]

Jeff do you know the model number? A Dayton pump that I saw in Grainger was model number 6PY49 and was $634. It has an aluminum body with PTFE diaphragms and an operating temp of 212 degrees. I was told that the diaphragms should be PTFE or Santoprene to be food safe.

[TF Maple]

[QUOTE=TF Maple;112791][QUOTE=sapsucker78;112788]Check out Indelco Plastics,

Are you sure you looked at all of them?

I thought I looked at all the 1/2 inch and some of the 3/4 but that could be just the offerings on the web.

[WMF]

Maplecrest,
Do you know the Grainger part # for your pump or what the materials of construction are?

I need to change one of my press pumps and want to go to a diaphragm.

Thanks

[sgsommers]

I am also interseted in a part number and brand of pump as I am going to go with a air pump also.

Will these diaphram pumps move cold syrup??

[Haynes Forest Products]

I was checking for Bronze pumps on ebay and it looks like there is a guy selling nice ones cheap...............better price than Oberdorfers:)

[maplecrest]

ok after much searching for the right one now offered would be ingersoll/rand 2cau6. goes to 200 degrees .

[Russell Lampron]

Last spring I bought a 3/8" pneumatic double diaphragm pump for my filter press. I tried it on cold syrup and also refiltered some syrup with it. It was 25 degrees out and it did pump the cold syrup but it was slow. The only problem that I had was that moisture would build up in the muffler and freeze stopping the pump. I ran 7 gallons of hot mersh through it and the press with no problems. It sure beats the old hand pump. My pump is a Yamada DP-10BAT. It has an aluminum body and Teflon diaphragms. The working temp is over 200 degrees. I can't give you a list price. I got mine for $99, new in box, on ebay.

[WMF]

Thanks for the info. Has anyone had any bad experiences with a diaphragm pump on hot syrup or know which ones to avoid ?