Leader Vortex

[Amber Gold]

I was at Bascom's today and they had the new 2.5x10 Vortex. 4' syrup pan w/ a steamaway and max pan. Impressive rig. Not sure if it's engineered like the Force 5 is, but it sure does boil hard. When I was there it was doing 200 gph w/ huge chunks of wet hardwood. They were saying last weekend they got 240-270 gph running it hard. That is impressive out of a 2.5x10.

I meant to ask this, but forgot. Why does Leader not make crossflow pans?

[tuckermtn]

Josh- how much did they say that set-up would cost? with max and steamaway I would guess your close to $15K...you can buy a lot of RO for that $$

[Amber Gold]

try $25k...not cheap. I don't want to buy one, just thought it was impressive. I'm buying a 600 gph ro this year. I think I may need a new rig in a year or two w/ higher gph than my Grimm, so that would be an option to maximize gph in a small footprint. Buying that setup would be easier than an addition on the SH.

[tapper]

Wow that evaporation rate is huge for a small rig! They told me they were firing every 8 minutes and I kinda lost interest. I woulda never guessed they were getting that kind of evaporation.

[Sbascom]

I was at Bascom's today and they had the new 2.5x10 Vortex. 4' syrup pan w/ a steamaway and max pan. Impressive rig. Not sure if it's engineered like the Force 5 is, but it sure does boil hard. When I was there it was doing 200 gph w/ huge chunks of wet hardwood. They were saying last weekend they got 240-270 gph running it hard. That is impressive out of a 2.5x10.

I meant to ask this, but forgot. Why does Leader not make crossflow pans?

Leader will make cross flow pans if special ordered, they just dont like to. They dont like the idea of having to shut down every 4 hours to change a pan.

[Sugarmaker]

Wow, that boil rate is impressive. $25 K is not a bad price. Holy Crap what am I saying?? that's still a lot of jing! I guess compared to other new rigs on the market, its not bad.

Chris

[Dave Y]

Leaders Vortex is nothing like a Force 5 ! It looks like a bunch of add ons and after thoughts. I saw it boil at Leaders open house. Blowers setting on the ground, reostat operating cheap Dayton blowers. firing every 7-8 minutes. I saw one in the show room with no syrup pans on it. Not real impressive. I could have come up with what they have.

[802maple]

That is because they feel they need to shut down to change the pans, their lack of knowledge in that area is incredible. That is why I call them Follower Evaporator Company. Allright Leader faithful let me have it.

I was impressed by the Vortex though.



Leader will make cross flow pans if special ordered, they just dont like to. They dont like the idea of having to shut down every 4 hours to change a pan.

[Killington Maple]

If I had to spend upwards of $25,000 for a rig, I don't think I would be burning wood. Sounds like they can't improve on the firing times too well.
I have an Inferno arch now and am converting to oil. While the Inferno will boil like crazy (at times), I can say without ANY doubt that I'm severely disappointed with it.

[maplecrest]

after boiling on cross flow pans for a year i walked right by it and never even walked over to look at.to look at the stack they were putting some oil under it.

[Randy Brutkoski]

I am leaning towards buying a force 5 this year, hopfully i can buy and place the order before june to get the 10 % off deal they have going. Cross flow seems to be the way to go. I think the canadians are a step ahead of leader when it comes to efficency evaporators, and a little less expensive. But what do i know, i will be a rookie on the boiling thing this year. Have been selling sap for 15 years.

[Amber Gold]

Dave, I agree it doesn't have the fit and finish of a Force 5, but it sure does cook.

[Dave Y]

I also burns a lot of wood. I went down that road.

[Amber Gold]

Trade off; big boil or reduced wood consumption...can't have both. I was surprised to see though that it does have the fine powder on the bottom of the flues similar to the Force 5 so maybe they are burning everything. If I had my choice though, a force 5 would probably be it. Having 45 min. of consistent heat is like having an oil fired rig and it would free up a lot of time to do other things than feeding the beast if boiling concentrate and making a lot of syrup per hour.

[Amber Gold]

Jerry, how do you swap pans mid-boil? Do you just let most of the wood burn down, turn the blowers down and just pull the pan off? Do you leave liquid in the pan while removing and do you transfer the liquid to the new pan?

[802maple]

I have written this a few times but I will be glad to do it again.
!. I first plug off the pans from each other and no I don't let the fire down at all.
2.I then draw off about half the sweet in the pan that I want to switch and dump it in to the clean one.
3. I take the connectons off the pans .
4. I turn the blower off if there is one and remove the pan from the evaporator. The draft will pull the heat down and thru the evaporator. as long as you don't open the firing doors.
5. I throw the new pan on with the sweet in it that I pulled off the old pan and turn the blower back on. and make all of my connections.
6. I drain the rest of the sweet out of the dirty pan and put it into the clean pan.

This takes me less time than it took me to write this, usually 3 to 5 minutes max from the time I plug the pans off, and back to a full boil. I will guarantee you that my next drawoff off of syrup will be before anybody with a reverse flow that just switches sides, with all of the mixing of syrup and everything going on in that process. I know Leader and many others claim that you have to shut down everything to do this but remember they are just trying to sell pans. If you go north of the border it is next to impossible to find a reverse flow.

I felt the same way about how much a pain it was changing pans, before I had the offer to try them at another sugar bush back in the 80's. After I used them that day I ordered a new set when I got home for my evaporator and have never looked back.

[Amber Gold]

Thanks Jerry. Much appreciated. That sounds pretty simple and makes you wonder why reverse flow pans are still in use.

[802maple]

It is very easy. But just like I had to be convinced, so don't the people that don't presently own one. That is why some people like Fords and others like Chevy's. Some have used them but didn't like them for one reason or another and mostly because they didn't like shutting down to change. I didn't like that part either until one day I said I am going to try this with a full fire and see what happens and I found out.
I also filter my sweet at night after I am done boiling that is in my front pans with a filter press and I find that I don't have to change them many times anyway. I have made as much as 500 gallons between changes doing this. Very seldom do i have to change during a boil, maybe once or twice a year.

[Brent]

I have often thought about running a filter on the syrup pan while I was boiling, but never tried it. One issue is how to keep a gradient. Maybe draw off from the last channel, pass through the filter, then re-introduce into the back last channel. Maybe do this once after doing 2 or 3 draw offs. Keeping the scale off the bottom of the pans would sure help in thermal conductivity.

I did get a second pan and like being able to swap. So far I've only done it with only a low or no fire. I tried to talk talk Patrick into making a stainless cover that I could slide in under a syrup pan, but it sounds like I don't need that. We have a Vermont Castings wood stove that fires from the top. Never had a flame come out of that. Never made the connection that the evap would continue to draw the same as the wood stove.

Great. Thanks for the idea. 802