New Sugarhouse (Dial-up Warning: Lots-o-Pics)

[twofer]

Been working on plans for our new, and first, sugarhouse. Since my maple syrup making experience is limited I figured it would be a good idea to post my plans and get some input from those of you that have a few more years under their belt.

Right now the plans are to build a 30'x40' pole barn. The front half of the barn will be divided into two rooms with dimensions of 15'x20'. One room will house the evaporator and one room will house the kitchen/sales. You can see a good overall picture below.

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/1898/mainx.jpg

The next picture is a little bit closer view of the kitchen/sales room.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3159/kitchenandsales.jpg

This picture is a closer view of the evaporator room. The evaporator has 3' of space on the backside, 4' on the shared wall side, and 8' on the window side. The reason I offset the evaporator is to give more room on one side for visitors to move along the length of the evaporator.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4788/evaporatorroom.jpg

The last picture is of the sap storage area. Eventually down the road if expansion warrants it we can finish half of this area off into another room to house an RO unit.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3430/sapstorage.jpg

What do you guys think?

[adk1]

I think you are really investign alot in your first shack? Do you ahve all the other equip yet? How many trees you tapping?? Need some more background specifics, but it seems sweet!

[twofer]

Well I appreciate the concern regarding size but I'd really like to just build once so that is why the building the size that it is. I was actually thinking it might be a bit small. :)

Not sure what you mean about equipment but no the evaporator has not been purchased yet.

The tapping capacity of my property is ~1000 taps. I figure I can get ~600 of them on vacuum in the next couple years.

[red maples]

just a few things I see is to put more room around your evap for wood storage(if thats what your using) only 500 gallon sap storage? and a little work bench for tasting cups defoamer skimmer hydos etc. and more space around your evap ...all sides, you will need it!!! a nice big window going from the kitchen to your evap room so when folks come into your kitchen to puchase they can see the evap!!!

otherwise nice first shack!!!! and nice pics

[maple flats]

If this will be wood fired you should have more room (or a doorway) at both ends for a cleaning brush rod. I only left 5' and now need to use a 2 piece rod to clean. It would be easier with more room. Also, if wood fired more wood storage. You may also have drawn too much counter space in the kitchen and too little room for things like a filter press, and a canner, both of which like room. Counter space is nice but don't crowd the items needing floor space.

[Haynes Forest Products]

When my shack was built They put in a regular size door that also opened on the side to allow for pallets or tanks to pass thru. I would go with doubble doors in the tank area. Nice big 4' X 10' window between the evap room for viewing and keeping an eye on the rig. Makes tours feel like they are seeing it all at once:)

[twofer]

So far the common suggestion has been wood storage. Yes, the evaporator will be wood fired. I don't really want to make the building any bigger so would you guys extend the length of the rooms and take area away from the sap storage or widen the evaporator room and take room away from the kitchen/sales room? Keep in mind that this will be a high efficiency wood fired evaporator.

[red maples]

I would start with adjusting the evap room. you will spend the most time there. during that one special month.

then see what size tank you will have for your sap storage room and what about the future if you only want to build build once could there be an RO some day? 500 gallons is way too small for storage and 50 gallon head tank way to small for what looks like a 2.5 x 10 for 600 to 1000 taps on vacuum. I would go with a 1200 to 2000 gallon range tank for storage and 150-300 gallon head tank or just build the large storage tank as a head tank and just ahave the one tank. will you have a releaser in the sap storage? a pump to get it up to there or will it be from another gathering tank etc.

oh the other thing if you plan on having that kitchen next to the evap room like that... plan on moisture running down the rafters into the kitchen. you may want to consider a hood rather than a copula.

alot of stuff to think about

[Haynes Forest Products]

Why the seperate slab for the evap. Thats folly if your thinking to make the floor stronger because the evap is heavy. If the floor is 4" reinforced it will hold a Mack truck on a floor jack.

I dont like the traffic flow past the evap to the kitchen. I would put it in the center of the room so you can walk into the storage room to check levels get supplies and tend the future RO and not get in the way of wood hauling.

When it comes to cleaning the evap its nice to have room and a nice work bench along the wall for tear down. You need a place for sitting and reading Pizzas and I dont see the Fridge for cold ones:lol:

[3rdgen.maple]

Im trying to figure out how you are gonna get any tanks through that door. Definately consider atleast a double door or overhead in the tank room to move big items in and out. And like Red pointed out that 55 gallon head tank will last about a few minutes till its empty. Jack that holding tank up in the air and feed the evaporator right from that. One less tank to trip around and one less step in the process to mess up. Maybe take a few feet off the kitchen and a few off the tank room and go larger on the evap room. You also might consider getting your wood storage as close as possible to the evaporator. The least amount of steps to it the more energy you will have to boil. Man its fun spending someone elses money. You will find out that no matter how big you build it it will never be big enough. Maybe consider a lean too of the evaporator room and an acces door to store your wood there. Then when you are all done and setup and have one year under your belt you can change it all to fit your needs lol. I also agree with Haynes why the extra slab? If you have a good base reinforced concrete it is more than enough.

[twofer]

The 500 gallons of storage is just for size reference as I wasn't sure I liked the placement of the tank. The plan is to have at least 1000 gallons of storage once we get everything up on vacuum.

The feeder tank will be pumped from the sap storage tanks. I figured the 2.5x10 would run about 75gph and if I maintained a level of 25 gallons that would give me 20 minutes of sap if the pump had problems. How will I know if I have problems? I plan on tying in tank level sensors into my evaporator controller so I know how much I have left in both the feeder and storage tanks. Also, the sap storage tanks cannot be jacked up above the height of the evaporator due to their height and the truss spacing. Should I still go with a larger feeder tank?

For now the sap storage room will be accessible through the 10' overhead door located on the other side of the building. You guys do make a good point about maybe putting in another slider or double door once we wall it off for an RO. Yes, there will also be a vacuum pump and releaser in the room as well.

The separate slab isn't for reinforcement but rather it is to help prevent frost heaving and leveling the evaporator. Per the UVM's Sugarhouse Design document it has four legs that extend down below the frost line.

[red maples]

you should be able to get a large tank raised up enough!! how high are the walls and the trusses if its a pole barn that shouldn't be a problem. or in the design you can move the trusses up in that section and attach them to the rafters higher up and build a platform stong enough to hold the weight of the tank and just make it big enough to get up their and clean when needed. and under can be used for storage.

I would go with a bigger head tank. I have a 55 gallon for my 2x6 and I never let it go less than 1/2 because it will loose gravity presuure and create problems with flow. your pump will be going every 15 minutes to keep that tank filled.

[Rhino]

Just a thought on the evap. location. Right now your plans are for it to be 8' away from the door. Depending on how far back from the building your wood pile will be, it might be a long wood transfer distance. Best thing we ever did was move our evap. right up to the door opening. easier, keeps alot of the mess outside, cooler inside on those warmer cook days. Just a thought but nice plans! You have the right idea to build it big enough the first time instead of scabbing additions on later. good luck.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Twofer Dont do it. Its like Tattooing your girlfriends name on your neck:emb: What happens when you go bigger or move the evap. If the frost is going to heave the building why not have the evap go along for the ride. Leveling the evap is done with the legs not the floor. Dont know about there but we were taught to never combine footers with Casions or slabs on grade with casions.

[Sugarmaker]

Twofer,
I think you are doing the right things by
1. asking lots of questions.
2. design your thoughts on a cad system or even sketching.
3. using existing plans that have most of the bugs worked out already.
4. Go look at a bunch of existing sugarhouses they all have there good and not so good points. take pictures and combine the things you like.

I did put a foundation under the arch due to poor ground conditions and wanted to avoid frost heaving. I also put a concrete pier below frost line at each leg of the evaporator.
I agree that this can be a problem if you change evaporator sizes or position. All the more reason to get it right the first time if possible. Kind of like picking the right girl the first time:)
I was comfortable with the 3 x 10 size and felt this size would fit us or many years. So the building was designed around that.
I like your ideas for the kitchen.

regards
Chris

[red maples]

I agree I wish I planned things out a little better.

I still consider myself a newbie but I learned so much the last 2 years. and I improve and plan to improve every year...on the other hand I think no matter what you do to plan and go through dry runs what ever... you always look back and said ok wow I should have done that!!! or I should have made this over here!!! and you won't know until your making syrup, making candy, having visitors what ever. But I do think your making the best effort to get things right the first time...good for you.

[twofer]

Thanks guys. I've taken the suggestions and made a few changes to the plan over the weekend. I widened the evaporator room 1' and lengthened both rooms 2'. I also added a large viewing window between the evaporator room and kitchen/sales room. Below is a picture of the reflecting the changes I've made.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8642/wshv2.jpg