Soaking pans in snotty sap

[ennismaple]

Our pans have been soaking in snotty sap for almost 5 weeks and I'm not sure if they'll be clean yet or not.

How long does everyone let their pans sit if you use sap to clean them?

[vtmaplemaker]

as long as you can stand it!!! if the sap does not work, go get a bunch of vinegar!

[TF Maple]

Milkstone remover seems to work great for us. We had some scortching on the sides of our pan and it gets most of that loosened up overnight too. Should be able to find it at a farm supply store.

[brookledge]

In the past I would let it sit until June or so. After it sits for a while the sap will become more watery then it is easier to drain out since it is not as ropey as it was
Keith

[Amber Gold]

Mine's been in for about a month. I cover the pan over with a sheet of plywood so no smell. Wish I had more sap though because I wasn't able to go as high as I needed. I drained it over the weekend and got most of the pan scrubbed out. Pan cleaned up with minimal scrubbing...probably would've worked better if I let it sit a bit longer.

For those using milkstone remover, what ratios are you using (water/remover), do you heat it up, and how long do you let it sit? I still need to clean my syrup pans.

Thanks

[Jim Brown]

Amber Gold; We use milk stone remover to clean our pans. We use about 1 and 1/2 gallons for the steamaway and the rig combined.(2x6) Fill everything full of water dump it in and build a fire and go to town!!. About 3-4 hours of a high simmer and hose every thing down. Very little hand work with the scotch bright and rubber gloves and rinse.

Works for us

Jim

[Amber Gold]

Jim, Do you know about how many gallons of water that is?

[Jim Brown]

Amber Gold. Not for sure but I would say most likely around 5-7 gallons in the syrup pan and 25-30 gallon in the flue pan(within couple of inches of the top) and 5-6 gallon in the steamaway. Water should be a nice 'orange' color when starting out. Not very expensive down here around 10 bucks a gallon so we don't spare it when pouring in. little extra won't hurt the pans and may save a lot of hand work.

Jim

[TF Maple]

I just follow the instructions on the label for an acid rinse which is 1 ounce to 12 gallons of water. Since I still have glowing coals right after finishing some syrup I do start up a fire to warm things up and let it go out overnight. Next day all of the nitre is loose and can be rinsed out. For some of the scorching you can try the acid soak mixture of 1 ounce to a quart of warm water and just get it wet with that for a while. I did have some stubborn small spots of black scorched on stuff that didn't come off with just the acid rinse but I will worry about that next year.

[Bruce L]

Hi Ennis, we leave the pans until sometime after the first crop of hay when there's a little more time .By this time the sap is thinner and drains out better,and the way I usually tell is by the crimp pan,it has lines on top where the stuff has lifted out from between the crimps,much like say sani-flush in your toilet,everything has lifted and settled on the top.
Bruce

[adk1]

Dont know about anyone else, but the title of this thread gros's me out;)

[Haynes Forest Products]

I havent cleaned pans but I have left sap in a inline filter and it always came clean with just water.............................BUT I did have a Sheriffs cadaver dog come and try and dig up the area in the woods where I thru the stuff out.............Then the dog threw up:lol:

[Bruce L]

Ennis,we cleaned our pans yesterday.Flue pan looks like new again,you can comb your hair(or what's left of it in my case) by the reflection.Syrup pan was a little tougher,found a few spots where I should have rotated it more often.

[C.Wilcox]

Guys,

I have not tried the snotty sap technique myself, but am I wrong to assume that you're all you're really doing is allowing the sap to turn to vinegar in the pans? Does it smell like vinegar when you take the covers off or is it actually more like something crawled in there and died? Having not had the experience myself I would have to guess that the "snot" is what they call "mother" in the vinegar world? Somebody needs to take a picture of their snotty sap so we can all appreciate how nasty it is....

[Bruce L]

Hi,yes the sap basically turns to vinegar and cleans every joint,nook and cranny.The smell calms down after a while,but never gets smelling like vinegar.For the first while it does smell like an animal found it's final resting place in your camp,but the smell does calm down once the sap has completed the cycle.What i really like is that I don't have to worry about chemical residues in the pans or joints,start up next spring I simply boil water (also checking for leaks in fittings etc),then start with the sap.My pans look like new,I have no left over residue of cleaner or dirt,lime etc from the previous year.Didn't take a picture of the sap,but I could take a picture of the flue pan to show what it is like,and has boiled sap every year over 20 years now.

[3rdgen.maple]

Dont know about anyone else, but the title of this thread gros's me out;)

Hahahaha glad none of my customers are reading this site lol. Atleast I think they don't. Everybody does things different I guess but for me a few days soak in vinegar and Im as happy as an ant that found some syrup. Im not up for weeks and weeks of a rotten smell in my sugarhouse.

[sapsucker78]

Can sombody tell us a little more about using vinegar? How much you use for how long? Do you heat it? I have heard of this but never talked to anyone who did it themselves.

[ennismaple]

I'd need a milk truck of vinegar to fill our pans! It took 325 gallons of sap to fill them. They were looking pretty nasty on the weekend. A couple more weeks and they should shine!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Just curious what Dr. Perkins has to say about this method?? I have heard over time it can cause pin holes to be eaten thru the pans and damage the pans??? Be nice to know as this sounds like a great way to clean them pans.

[DrTimPerkins]

Just curious what Dr. Perkins has to say about this method?? I have heard over time it can cause pin holes to be eaten thru the pans and damage the pans??? Be nice to know as this sounds like a great way to clean them pans.

Any acid-based cleaner can do this if left in the pans too long. This is especially the case with soldered evaporators, but can also be the case with welded evaporators. NEVER use chlorine-based acids or cleaners in pans.

The sour-sap method does work well though, and is a cheap and time-honored way to clean the pans. Just monitor it so that when the pans are clean you can drain and rinse them.

[Bruce L]

Dr. Tim,our only real concern is more to get the pans off of the arch where we figure the creosote and ashes are sweating the underside of the pans,could this have more to do with the pinholes?

[Bruce L]

I also second what Ennis said.Our crimp pan alone holds 300 gallons of sap,takes around 400 or more to fill the whole system

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr. Tim,our only real concern is more to get the pans off of the arch where we figure the creosote and ashes are sweating the underside of the pans,could this have more to do with the pinholes?

Deposits on the pan bottom react with humidity and/or moisture (if not covered and it gets wet) to form lye, a very high pH (as opposed to acids, which are very low pH). This is also very corrosive to pans. The type of wood (or other things) you burn affect the chemistry of the deposits and can make them even more corrosive than normal lye. For example, burning old PVC tubing (NOT recommended) leaves chlorine residues, which are very bad for SS pans. The result is pitting and perforation of the pans.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Any acid-based cleaner can do this if left in the pans too long. This is especially the case with soldered evaporators, but can also be the case with welded evaporators. NEVER use chlorine-based acids or cleaners in pans.

The sour-sap method does work well though, and is a cheap and time-honored way to clean the pans. Just monitor it so that when the pans are clean you can drain and rinse them.

So is sap likely to cause any damage sitting in the evaporator for a couple of months?? Are you referring to it also as an acid based cleaner??

[DrTimPerkins]

So is sap likely to cause any damage sitting in the evaporator for a couple of months?? Are you referring to it also as an acid based cleaner??

Unlikely in SS pans. The acidity isn't really high....but it will dissolve a little bit of solder in older pans, and over a long period of time (decades), could result in damage.

Yes, sour sap is essentially dilute acetic acid (vinegar).

[argohauler]

I know that it only takes an inch of sap to rot, to clean my pan mixed with water. You don't get as much stink and no thick layer of slime (mother) either, but I leave mine soaking till late fall when I have more time.

My uncle got a cheap 3x8 small bros. soldered pan. It was right full of pin holes. Apparently the previous owner was boiling apple juice in it to make apple butter. He put lots of solder into it and he got it leak free.

[sapman]

Dr. Tim, I get a somewhat sticky black film on the bottom of my oil-fired pans. After being seen by an expert, he said it was unburnt fuel, and apparently not the same as soot. He didn't seem too concerned about it. Do you think there would be any corrosive component in this stuff? I wonder if I should take the front pan off for air circulation.

Thanks,
Tim

[woodsmith]

I dump in a gallon of vinegar and then fill the pan close to the top with water (in this case 13 gallons water) and let it sit for a few weeks, then bring to a boil while scrubbing lightly, drain and then add a box of baking soda to clean water and boil again, comes out nice and doesn't cost much for vinegar and baking soda.

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr. Tim, I get a somewhat sticky black film on the bottom of my oil-fired pans. After being seen by an expert, he said it was unburnt fuel, and apparently not the same as soot. He didn't seem too concerned about it. Do you think there would be any corrosive component in this stuff? I wonder if I should take the front pan off for air circulation.


Sorry for the delay. Was away for a week.

If it is truly unburned fuel, it is not a problem in terms of corrosion.

[Quabbin Hill Farms]

I still have both my pans filled with sour sap usualy wait until the 1st of July then I don't even need a presssure washer ordinary gardin hose will make them shine

[heus]

Still soaking mine, too. I stuck my hand in there and there was still some gritty substance on one part of the syrup pan so I will let it sit another couple of weeks. I really dont mind the smell. It still smells like hard apple cider. Syrup pan sap is a brown color. Flue pan sap is a greenish-blue color. I wonder in ther future if I could filter some of this rotten sap and then pasteurize it and drink it as alcohol?:cool:

[Haynes Forest Products]

Go for it and get back to us. And please wash your hands before dinner:o

[TF Maple]

I wonder in ther future if I could filter some of this rotten sap and then pasteurize it and drink it as alcohol?:cool:

It is acetic acid fermentation like vinegar not alcohol so I don't think you want to try that. I guess if you like pickle juice, maybe it will taste something like that, I don't know. I don't believe it will be good for your health.

[Amber Gold]

I initially filled my flue pan with sap, but I didn't have enough to fill it all the way and I didn't let it sit long enough...about 3 weeks, so I had to go back and clean them again. This time with milkstone remover and they came out spotless. Enough milkstone so it has a orange tinge, simmered for an hour and let it sti for 24 hrs. I'm not sure if the simmering helped at all, but everything came off with sponge. I have spots though on my syrup pan that I've having a difficult time getting off. Any ideas what they are and how to remove them?

[heus]

:mad: I finally rinsed out my syrup pan yesterday. Not real happy with the rotting sap method. Even efter scrubbing, there is still niter on the bottom of the pan that did not budge. This was after soaking in the sap since the end of the season. I have not emptied and rinsed my flue pan yet. I'm hoping it will come out clean. Dont think I will use this method next year. Just going to use milkstone remover in the syrup pan I think.

[3rdgen.maple]

Hues try dumping in a couple gallons of vinegar and skip the scrubbing. Let it sit for a few days and give it a quick brush down with Haynes food grade toilet brush and rinse clean. Quicker, easier on the nose and less scrubbing.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Amen to the FGTB then if the crud on the underside is bugging you spray with EZoff oven cleaner and power wash :)

[3rdgen.maple]

Cant agree more Haynes.

[jgrenier]

Will the vinager affect the solder and should I use baking soda to nutrilize it after the pans have been rised out

[Haynes Forest Products]

Its not so much about hurting the solder as getting it too clean....................what. Yup you dont want to remove the natural patena that coats the solder and helps keep it from leaching into the sap/syrup. I used vinigar on my english tin pans that were old as dirt and they never looked clean but no one died and the syrup was the best in all the land;)

[Jim Schumacher]

Well, I let my friend Larry talk me into cleaning my pans with fermenting sap this season. Over the weekend I snuck up to the evaporator, got as close as ten feet and reevaluated whether Larry was actually my friend or not. Funny Larry. Very, very funny!

[3rdgen.maple]

Jim it kind of makes you wonder if some of these guys can smell anything when they say it doesnt stink huh?

[Haynes Forest Products]

I had some old sap in a filter I forgot to empty. On the 4th of July I decided to clean it. I had 2 cadaver dogs show up before I could get it cleaned out.

[maple flats]

Back to the original question. Figure 7.5 gal per cubic foot. This will give you the right ratio for which ever product you use. It is actually 7.48xxxxxxx but 7.5 is good to use.
I use white vinegar but I only let it set up to 2 hrs. I start by adding straight white vinegar and then I warm it to maybe 100 degrees. I do this with my firestarter (a propane weed burner 500,000 btu torch, works fast). I just keep moving the flame around until the entire pan is about 100. Then I let it set while I do other cleanup. I reheat about 2 more times. After the 2 hours I use a gentle scrub brush which removes most. If any is left I use a scotch brite pad to finish. Then I rinse well and leave to dry, with the valves open and a cover over the pan. After drying I close the valves and let set until my pre season cleanup just before I expect sap.

[maple maniac65]

I let the sap ferment once in my pans but with the price of commercial syrup being what it is the left over sweet at the end of the season in a 30x8 amounts to almost 20 gallons of commercial. The three quarts of acid I use is 45.00 and it doesn't take that much time to finish off what is there.

[3rdgen.maple]

I definatley wouldnt use the sweet in the pans. You should run that through and use raw sap if this is the way someone wants ot go. Personally white vineger and a couple days works absolutely fine. Another thing I tried for the fun of it was making birch syrup. I did not care for the end product but darn does it clean up the pans. A couple taps in a a couple birch trees and you are going to get enough sap to fill the pans to ferment also. I think I will skip the smell however and just spend the few bucks on vinegar.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Maple Flats when there is a year between posts and someone starts it up starting with rotting sap I think we can go from there:rolleyes: OK back to the subject. I start the year with about 12 bottles of Vinigar and use it to clean the pans at the start of the season. I then use it every day to do my finish pans and at the end of season. I made up a pump and storage set up to pump out and pump into my pans so I lose very little. SS pans tig welded Vinigar and high heat is the only way to go. And a FGTB:)

[KenWP]

I boiled down 15 gallons of buddy sap to about a gallon and a half and let that sit for a while.It smelled like vinegar when it was finished and had a weird slimy texture.It cleaned up the pans just great as when one was done I transfered it to the next.The smell was not all that bad.Haynes's socks smell worse.

[Haynes Forest Products]

You got that right Ken After working in wet shoes all day power washing equipment:o

[Jim Schumacher]

Well, Angela and I went up to the cabin this weekend and dealt with the slimmy sap in our front pan. It was indeed nasty. I will say that it did a very nice job cleaning most of the pan out. It could have used another month, sighh, to completely clean it out. However, I couldn't go anywhere in the yard to get away from the smell and I was worried I would need special permits to dump it if it got any nastier. I am not entirely sure I will do it again. Maybe next year when I have hoods over the pans it won't be as bad???

[Dill]

Wow I stuck my head in the sugar house this weekend. And the sap still smells. Guess its time to clean it out.

[heus]

Yeah my flue pan is still soaking as well. Gotta get it done before it freezes.

[3rdgen.maple]

Wow I stuck my head in the sugar house this weekend. And the sap still smells. Guess its time to clean it out.

And yet another guy who says its stinks. Must be the ones who dont think that have breathed in way to much wood smoke and their sense of smell is gone.

[KenWP]

I being a pig farmer most of my life can't smell much anymore. I could pick up a vinegar smell and that was about it.

[Haynes Forest Products]

So when the wife puts on Perfume its not for your benifit:lol: