Need Surge BB2 Help

[Tired-n-Dusty]

I have an old Surge BB2 that my wife picked up. I went through it and cleaned it up and put new vacuum pump oil in it. Everything looked pretty good but when I hook it up all I can pull is about 12.5 -13 in Hg on a closed system. I am wondering if the rings/cylinders are too worn. The cylinder walls looked good but I did not pull the pistons out to inspect them as I was told parts are not available. I was told to try adding some Slick 50 to the oil. I tried it but no help. I had to replace the one gear that drives the disc on top. I was told to time it so that the port in the disc was just past the exhaust hole in the near side of the cylinder head. I don't know if the timing could be a little off or something else. If anyone has any experience in rebuilding or working on these and can tell me what might be wrong or is it just worn out???

Thanks

Tired-n-dusty

[lpakiz]

I just had the dome off of 2 SP-11 that I have. Position yourself behind the pump so the oil sight gage is nearest you and the flywheel is on your left.
Mine are timed when the key in the flywheel is straight up--the slot in the disc is about at the 11 Oclock "away from you" position. If you need more accuracy yet, let me know-it is a cinch to remove the dome and maybe take a pic of the position--

[red maples]

I have never taken 1 apart and don't really know the internal componants.
But I do use a bb2 myself and I can get 25" hg at the releaser and have 25" end to end with 250 taps. and whenthe outside pressure is just right it can run as high as 29" when it feels like it!!!

so SOmething is definitly wrong there. here are a few things from back in my motor building days.

1. what size motor do you have on it? I run a 1 HP electric motor and I have a dimmer switch connected to it to adjust the speed.

2. first thing check head gaskets etc it might not be a gasket but the surfaces could be warped put a straight edge on it.

3. for oil I run non detergent compressor oil I get in in quarts from lowes.

4. check the timing your gears could be off? again don't know what the inside looks like.

5. I wouldn't worry about the piston but does it have rings. you may be able to get new rings from a a a motor cycle shop. and you can pcik up a little ball hone and use a little marvel mystery oil to hone the cylanders. if you want to go that route. if you go to a machine shop (that does engines) they may be able to find rings for you, and probably, a ball hone they go right into a drill.

do you have yours hooked up to a tank I run mine straight into the intake pipe...no tank. run the shortest closed piece of pipe with a gauge on it. this way you can insure there are no places for leaks.

thats all I can think of, for now

let us know how its going.

[Tired-n-Dusty]

Red Maples,

1. I have a 1 hp motor on it with a 3" pulley.
2. Will check the head gasket.
3. I am using Mobil Vacuum pump oil. I added some Slick 50 based upon another person's recommendation assuming the rings were worn but it did little to nothing for it.
4. This is a possibility. The original had a stripped gear but I was able to salvage another gear off of a 2nd BB2. I was told how to time it but a mistake here is a definite possibility.
5. Possibility?
6. I have it hooked into a tank and then a PVC line. If I turn off the BB2 and watch the vacuum gauge it hangs steady. It will given enough time drain down, but whatever leak there might be has to be very small.

# 4 is my big question so I would like to find someone else who knows or can check their pump.

[Tired-n-Dusty]

Larry,

Thanks for the info. I will pull the dome and see if it looks the same. I know that the BB2 and SP11 appear to be very similar.

Does anyone know for sure if the timing on an SP11 is any different from a BB2? Until I am told otherwise, I will assume they are the same.

When the pump runs, the dome gets hot enough that it is hard to keep my hand on it. The block is cool at this same time. Is this normal?

Thanks

[Tired-n-Dusty]

Larry,
The BB2 does not have an oil site gauge. I just want to make sure I understand you. As I read your message. From your reference point the pulley is 90 degrees to your left and on the other side of the vacuum pump (180 degrees away from you) is the motor. From this point, when the key in the pulley is at 12:00, the hole in the disc is about 11:00 from your reference point??

I pulled the dome and mine is not timed to this point so I want tom make sure. If you can answer this and then take a picture later, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks for your help

[lpakiz]

Yes, You have it correct. It's a bit late tonight to take a pic, but that is how my SP-11 s are timed. Another way to get the base reference---Pully at 9 OClock, electric motor at 12 OClock away from you. Keyway on drive pully straight up and little slot on disc at about 11 OClock.

[Tired-n-Dusty]

Larry,

I re-timed it by your instructions. As I have used gasket sealant in a couple of places I am waiting for it to cure and will check it tomorrow for vacuum. These discussion forums are so helpful as I could not find anyone around us that knew anything at all about these pumps. If this works, you have saved me from going and buying another pump.

Thanks

Dwight

[waysidemaple]

I have a surge BB-2. If you don't have luck with what your trying now I can take pictures of mine this weekend and send them to you. Mine is pulling 25", I pulled it out of our barn last tuesday and it worked good so hopefully if the sp-11 timing doesnt work this will. Good luck

[Tired-n-Dusty]

Larry and all,

The re-timing worked and I am now pulling 22-25 in Hg. Thanks for all of your help.

God Bless,

Dwight

[Seguin Sugarbush]

What are the capabilities of a sp-11,vacuum range and cfms? A friend of ours is interested in setting up vacuum in his bush and has one available to him.Does it have the capacity to run 1000 taps?

[lpakiz]

This year I used it on 200+ taps and had NO problem whatever in holding 22 inches. I did NOT use any regulator this year.
Several days it was at 24 and I idled the gas engine down even more to keep it at 22. Like Haynes ALWAYS says (que Haynes here) you can have a very small capacity pump on a lot of taps if you keep the leaks in check...

Tired-and-Dusty, happy to help. I myself have learned TONS from the folks here and am just glad to return the favor to someone else.