Logger recommendations in VT for Sugarbushes?

[mwarren]

I am in Huntington, VT and have approximately 30 Acres that I would like to have thinned prior to setting up a pipeline system. It is almost a 100% hardwood forest with VERY little evergreen ( lots of Maple, some ash, beech, birch and Cherry). Does anyone know of a logger that has experience in logging within a sugarbush? I don't want the remaining Maples to be damaged too badly, nor do I want a ton of crap left that I am tripping over for the next 10 years. If I had the money I'd buy a 4x4 tractor and do it myself but I don't have the time or money to do that.

I had the county forester come and walk my land and he suggested that I have someone with a small harvester come in during the winter to minimize the damage to the remaining trees/root systems.

Any suggestions or ideas???

Mike

[ADKMAPLE]

I would contact your state Department of Natural Resources, I think that is what Vermonts title is..In NY it is Department of Environmental Conservation. Anyways, they show have a list available in your area

[tuckermtn]

might try Warren Hill Logging- uses Cut to Length and whole tree systems- out of Greensboro Bend Vt.

never seen his work, but know others have liked their outfit-

http://www.warren-hill.net/harvesting.htm

if you were closer to the NH border I could reccomend a lot more operators...

[farmall h]

mwarren, ask your county forester that you had walk your lot. Certainly he knows of loggers that have the equipment and reputation to do a nice clean job. You should have the forester mark the trees for culling otherwise it may get high graded to the point where you will have no maples for sugaring.

[mwarren]

The forester did recommend someone but I thought I would see if anyone on here had any particular good luck with someone local. He suggested having me mark the trees with the logger, and then have him come back to check the work and give any recommendations at that point. He said that based on the trees here that it would be real close to a break even job since I want to leave the majority of the maples for sugaring. He said that I may have a hard time finding someone who wants to do the job without taking some of the good stuff. He said for me to walk with the logger and mark the trees that way I could have a big part in what stays and what goes. He would just come back and double check that it was the right way prior to cutting. He said that he has alot of confidence in the person that he recommened and that is why he doesn't see a problem with doing it like this.

I just like having a few opinions before I go ahead and do anything. Also, Everyone has a different perception of what a good job is like so I figured if I could find someone locally that used a particulay person then I could go and see the job that they did to see how it came out.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Mike

[mwarren]

Tuckermtn: Nice web site. I could use one of those "reclaimer" machines...talk about a great way to make trails in the woods... Just point it in the direction you want the trail to go and Mow away...

Mike

[halfast tapper]

There is an outfit in Westminister, VT. They do low impact logging. They use horses. They did a tract here in Ludlow 2 winters ago. They were very impressive to watch. They have a guy on the landing and the teams pull the wood out on their own, once they are shown the way. They guy on the landing unhooks them and away they go back to the woods. They were pulling out a log load of wood a day with four teams.
I believe they are the Holton Farm in Westminister, VT.

[jlemieux]

Call Mike Lemieux in St. Johnsbury, Vt. He has done sugarbushes on State land and thinned some bushes for locals. I saw a bush he did in Sutton and it looked great, it was very clean and nothing was left but the maples. Yeah he is also my Uncle.

[farmall h]

jlemiex, you got my vote of confidence. mwarren, if your plan is to have a "true" maple orchard..one that is manageable for tapping, you should definately approach a logger that has the proper equipment so as not to leave all the tops in the woods. 30 acres is the size of my orchard and I still have hemlock and fir that needs to be removed. I logged it once myself and removed only pine & hemlock. Still more work to do. Still picking at it.:)

[northwoods_forestry]

I haven't had any recent harvests up your way in VT, so I've no logger recommendations for you, but I do have a couple of suggestions regarding the harvest.

1. "nor do I want a ton of crap left that I am tripping over for the next 10 years"

When considering the long term health and productivity of your sugarbush, the more "crap" left behind the better. All that debris will add nutrients and help build up soils and protect regeneration from browsing, leading to a healthier, more resilient stand. In fact, I would go beyond just leaving the tops in the stand, but would also leave most of the low value logs to rot on the ground. I realize that tripping through a sugarbush with a roll of tubing in your arms isn't much fun, but in my view that temporary inconvenience is a small price to pay for happy and productive trees.

2. "it was very clean and nothing was left but the maples"

It is important to retain species diversity in your sugarbush. Creating a pure stand of sugar maples is an invitation to pathogens and insects to run rampant. Maintaining a diverse sugarbush has been shown in numerous studies to inhibit insect and disease outbreaks and provide higher quality habitat for wildlife species.

Just my 2 cents, but I think most practicing foresters would give you similar advice.

[maple flats]

I'm with Northwoods Forestry. You really want the stuff left, it protects new seedlings from deer and other critters until it can get big enough to thrive on it's own. You also want other species, especially some pine and hemlock. They help keep shade on the tubing to maintain sap quality and as was said, diversity is best for the woods in the long run. You might want trash left limbed on what sticks up or what holds a trunk up very high off the ground only. Ask your forester. What you should try to get is a maple majority within the mix and thin maples for good spacing. Your logging will need to be followed up after the crop trees left fill in with another thinning. Don't open things too much all at once, it is best to open a crop tree on 2 sides only and wait until it responds by filling in the canopy space before the other 2 sides are opened. Too much light all at once encourages epicormic branching (trees send out new branches from dormant buds all along the trunk) which is not ideal.

[brookledge]

Dave
What if you have maples that are growing (6") that are very dense so that the trees all have grown straight up with very small amount of branches.
Wouldn't it be good to have some epicormic branching in the 10to 30 foot area off the ground? I'm opening up some now and there are no branches until 30 or so feet off the ground.
Keith

[northwoods_forestry]

In general (for a dense stand of maple poles), and without having seen the stand, the first step would be to thin into small groups of trees spaced 25-30 feet apart. Step 2 is to test the trees in each group for sap sugar content and use that info along with tree form and health to decide which tree in each group will become your crop tree.

[wally]

Too much light all at once encourages epicormic branching (trees send out new branches from dormant buds all along the trunk) which is not ideal.

not as crucial in sugar maple; it occurs, but not extensively, even in sunlight-exposed trees. it is much more problematic in northern red oak.

in general, non-stressed, healthy hardwoods that have boles exposed to sunlight are less likely to have epicormic branching than weaker, stressed hardwoods.

i agree that for large saplings and small poletimber, the idea isn't to create "final" crop tree spacing between stems during thinning. release groups of 15 to 20 stems instead of individuals, with the spacing between groups rather than between individuals.

[wally]

Dave
Wouldn't it be good to have some epicormic branching in the 10to 30 foot area off the ground? I'm opening up some now and there are no branches until 30 or so feet off the ground.


probably not. if the trees are healthy, their crowns will respond. no reason to encrourage epicormic production.

[PerrinFarm2]

Have you found somebody? if not I'll send a rec.

[SeanD]

Mike,

I know a guy who does low-impact logging with horses much like the Holton Farm recommended by Halfast. In fact, they probably work together. There are only like three guys in VT who do it this way and there's more work than time for them so they help each other out.

Here's the blurb from his website:

Positive Impact Horse Logging:
We offer timberstand improvement cuts, saw log and firewood harvests, and yard tree removal, all fully insured. We use draft horses and insure that our impact on the land is light and positive, avoiding typical damage caused by using machinery at a rapid pace in the woods (rutting, heavy soil disturbance, damage to remaining trees, etc.). Hourly charge is $40/hour, and other forms of payment are considered. For larger wood or higher volume cuts, we partner with other, similar-minded loggers, using multiple animals as well as small tractors/forwarders. Most of this work is done in the winter when the ground is frozen, but we do work in other seasons (except spring when ground is muddy and roads are posted). Call for more information, references, or a free site visit.

ALL Together Farm
2435 Ridge Road
Randolph Center, VT 05061
802-345-7488

Ask for Brad. Good luck.

Sean

[Randy Brutkoski]

I know a guy that does this type of work. He is only part time at it because his full time job is driving for Hood milk. I will get his number. He lives in central vermont somewhere.

[Thad Blaisdell]

I know a guy that does this type of work. He is only part time at it because his full time job is driving for Hood milk. I will get his number. He lives in central vermont somewhere.

His name isnt Glenn by any chance?

[Randy Brutkoski]

Yes it is. He has a story every time i see him. Small world.

[Thad Blaisdell]

I have known Glenn for a very long time. I actually got him his job at hood back many years ago. Little more to the story but anyways, as far as logging goes I would hire him with his horses if I needed him. If he had the time.

[VT maple maker]

Hmm I didnt know Glenn did logging with his horses. Hes a funny guy though.

[healthy woods]

Howdy, i'm new to the site, but very interested. I spent last winter in a JD 4010 doing a light impact job on NE Vermont. Thinning softwoods, hardwood and cutting firewood. Job came out nice. We piled and burned 80 percent of the brush, raked burn sites, dropped mulch, the place is a camp ground so it had to be nice. We basically removed trees that were not healthy or were crowding better trees. It was the landowners tractor. We (my lady and myself) are looking at a JD 5075 specifically for low impact work. I have done this kind of work in the past. Skidders make too much of a mess, they tend to be un wieldy. Tractors are so much nicer. The new equipment will allow you to completely pick wood up off the ground if you so desire, prior to taking it out of the woods. I'd be (am)interested but don't have the machine yet! let me know how it goes. We are looking to get into this full time, catering to landowners who want low impact work done. Smaller lots, fire wood, market logs, etc. I've been through some log labs this past hunting season look like a bomb was dropped. Thast another story. Good luck!

[sugarmountain]

Try Mike Ovit, Woodscapes is his buisness name. Also try Dennis Weaver another reliable guy from the huntington area.