Had a Hairy Moment Yesterday...

[C.Wilcox]

Went to move my latest trailer load firewood around back with the tractor yesterday and nearly did myself in. The trailer had just under a cord of wood in it and when I went up the slight incline in the yard headed for the firewood pile the tires spun for a second, caught, and then nose of the tractor came right up off the ground. I went for the clutch and my foot slipped off. By the time I got it back on I'll bet I was at a 30 degree angle. Another heartbeat more and I was going to bail off the side to keep from getting crushed when it went all the way over. If I'd have been in 2nd I wouldn't have had time for a second jab at the clutch. From now on I'll be filling the trailer about 1/3 full to keep it lighter and am going to work on a different hitch that will keep the load lower to the ground and that pulls off the front of the machine, not just the rear end. I love my antique tractor, but it does have it's risks.

[Ausable]

Glad You are still here and together. --- Mike

[allgreenmaple]

That is scary, what tractor do you have & use? We had an older case years ago , narrow front, that you had to be careful with.

[Fred Henderson]

It is good to know that you are safe. All I will say is get a roll bar because there will be a next time.

[Acer]

new tighty whities required?

[maple flats]

That is why I retrofitted my tractor with a roll bar and seat belt. Roll overs are a big cause of fatailties in farming on non roll bar protected tractors.

[C.Wilcox]

Thanks guys. After I got the tractor stopped and got off I stood there for a few moments thinking about just how close I came to cashing in. My heart was really racing for a few minutes. I'm not sure how long it really takes to counter-rotate like that because time gets messed up when something like that happens to you, but I can say that it's way faster than I would have thought. The difference between disaster and an average day was probably only a second and a half. The tractor is an Allis C so it does have the narrow front end on it, but I have the tires set really wide to give it a little extra stability. What shocked me the most was just how easy it all happened. There was no warning, the engine never bogged down, nothing. It just started to rise up as easy as could be. I like Fred's suggestion for a roll bar. That would be ideal, but I'm not sure if I can make one fit this tractor. I'll have to look in to it. I'm going to make a point to only use it with light loads and avoid inclines so I don't repeat this experience. For heavy loads I'll just use my truck from now on.

[maple flats]

Check it out. In NYS there has been a program to retrofit all older tractors with roll bars, not by the state but a health orgainzation, most older tractors have a roll bar available. Don't hesitate to check it out. I think all older more popular tractors have a retrofit bar and your tractor was a popular one.

[maple flats]

Try to check thru this link, there may be financial help towards the retrofit.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/blog/nsb010509_rops.html

This is under the Center For Disease control, a national program.

[Big_Eddy]

What setup were you using for a hitch? If your pull bar is well below the rear axle level, you should not be able to lift the nose. Problem occurs when the pull point is too high. If' you're using a towbar between the lower arms, use a tie down chain to prevent the 3pt from rising up. If you don't - then even if it starts out right, you are still at risk. At no time should the hitch point ever get more that 12" BELOW the rear axle.

I agree with the others - add a roll bar and a seatbelt, but unless you change your towing setup to ensure that you are pulling from well below the axle, you'll still end up facing skyward. Keep the hitch point as low as you can. That way the torque forces the front wheels down, not up.

[C.Wilcox]

What setup were you using for a hitch? If your pull bar is well below the rear axle level, you should not be able to lift the nose. Problem occurs when the pull point is too high.

I was using the original fixed drawbar that comes with the tractor (like the one in the attached photo), but the down pressure from the trailer tongue combined with the incline just added up to be too much apparently. I spent some time searching for a retrofit ROPS, but haven't had any luck finding one for my model of machine. I'm going to keep looking though.

[Fred Henderson]

If that is your tractor on the traile, well I can say is that is a cob job on that drawbar,. It is not supposed to be like that. That is an accident looking for a place to happen.

[farmall h]

CWilcox, instead of investing in ROPS for the little "Aliss" you should visit a tractor boneyard and get the correct drawbar for it. That looks like something somebody cobbed up (quote: Fred Henderson). My father in law had one of these babies and the draw bar should extend under the belly of the machine down the middle. Looks like somebody welded up angle steel then bolted the U-shaped drawbar swivel on. Do you have the owners manual for it. If not go to Classic Tractors.com and you will see LOTS of pictures. Just trying to keep you safe.;)
Just wanted to add...the Alis Chalmers has planetary gears instead of straight axels like the Farmall H. See profile photo. Therefore the drawbar is usually attached from the side frame work then down the middle. Or, they are sometimes mounted to the rear hydaulic lift arms if equipped. The Farmall H is drawbar is pinned under the belly and the framework is mounted to the axel housings.

[kiegscustoms]

I had something similar occur the other day. I was trying to lift a log that was too big for the tractor with the forks. Ended up doing a 1 wheeled wheelie on the front wheel of a 23 hp Kuboda. No pants change required but a stiff drink was... Similar to your event I was pulling an old Ford with a 50s era Furgeson from the 3 pt hitch which would raise on it's own. Wheelies were a frequent occurance. I agree with everyone putting a roll bar on these older tractors, but when you are using a 3 year old Kuboda with a roll bar headed foreward do what you can do to reverse your previous actions as fast as possible.:)

[3rdgen.maple]

Well thankfully you are safe. My old 1949 case sc was a wheelie puller as well. Not to pick but a few things. That there ride has a very high center of gravity, planetary gears, chains, a weird drawbar setup and one rear tire on backwords. I am thinking that is too many combinations that can hurt a man. I am a little confused as to its setup. The tractor looks like it is not made for heavy pulling but yet it has planetary gears on it.

[C.Wilcox]

Guys, I should have clarified that the photo I attached was not of my actual tractor, just a random one that I had a rear view photo of. Mine is not quite so heavily "modified" and mine definitely has the tires on the right way (side view photo below). :) Mine does have the same "U" shaped drawbar though and my understanding is that this is the standard for this model and the reason for the high center of gravity is because it was a row crop tractor and needed to ride over the plants. I have to admit that I think this was just a case of me trying to use this thing to do way more than it was intended to. It certainly has the power to pull my trailer full of wood, but it's just not heavy enough to do it safely.

Farmall- Is it possible that what you're describing is the mounting bracket for a one bottom plow? They involved a framework that hung under the tractor and bolted into several different hitching points. One of which was about midpoint on the tractor. The attached photo of the tractor with the plows is not mine, just one I found on the side of the road during my travels. I was wondering whether a hitch like this would help transfer weight to the front of the tractor and prevent any more "wheelies".

[Fred Henderson]

Guys, I should have clarified that the photo I attached was not of my actual tractor, just a random one that I had a rear view photo of. Mine is not quite so heavily "modified" and mine definitely has the tires on the right way (side view photo below). :) Mine does have the same "U" shaped drawbar though and my understanding is that this is the standard for this model and the reason for the high center of gravity is because it was a row crop tractor and needed to ride over the plants. I have to admit that I think this was just a case of me trying to use this thing to do way more than it was intended to. It certainly has the power to pull my trailer full of wood, but it's just not heavy enough to do it safely.

Farmall- Is it possible that what you're describing is the mounting bracket for a one bottom plow? They involved a framework that hung under the tractor and bolted into several different hitching points. One of which was about midpoint on the tractor. The attached photo of the tractor with the plows is not mine, just one I found on the side of the road during my travels. I was wondering whether a hitch like this would help transfer weight to the front of the tractor and prevent any more "wheelies".

Do you have a "B" model? No matter, whatever you have do a seach on some of the tractor forums to see how the draw bar is set up for your model. Be safe to tap another day.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Wilcox I have the same tractor and my draw bar is the same but strighter. I have never seen the center bar on one they must have all been scraped. I dont see a center pivit spot for the actual bar on mine. I wonderd about the roll bars myself I think mounting one to the top of the diff casting would interfer with the brake levers. The only brakes on mine are the two independant levers man things can get busy when your shifting, throttling down and trying to steer and break. I have the wide front axel I cant amagine what a narrow on is like in the High speed turns:o

[maple flats]

I have seen more than one savy tractor owner who ran one tire backwards. I've been told it helps back up. I think most I see like that have a loader on the front however. I've never tried it on any of my tractors.

[C.Wilcox]

Wilcox I have the same tractor and my draw bar is the same but strighter. I wonderd about the roll bars myself I think mounting one to the top of the diff casting would interfer with the brake levers. The only brakes on mine are the two independant levers man things can get busy when your shifting, throttling down and trying to steer and break. I have the wide front axel I cant amagine what a narrow on is like in the High speed turns:o

I believe you have a "B" right? My understanding is that the B and C are identical except for the length of the final drives. I think the C is slightly wider than the B, but otherwise they're the same machine. I was thinking the same thing about the brake levers on the differential casting. That's really one of the only places available to bolt to the rear differential and it's going to be tricky to get anything sturdy enough attached without messing up brake function. There are some additional attachment points on top of the final drive outside of the seat assembly as well, but you'd need a "U" shaped bracket to fit over the final drive to use them. I was thinking of something that bolted onto the final drives somehow that connected with an angled back support behind the operator that comes up off the drawbar for extra support. Probably going to look pretty funny, but if it makes things safer I won't care.

[Haynes Forest Products]

C.W. I thought the differance in the B and C was the C was elec start. I bought another tractor just for the center casting that has the starter hole. There are flat areas on the front of the diff for attachments that might work for a roll bar. Im getting tired of getting my pants caught on the brake levers getting off to the front. Im looking for the linkage to convert to foot pedals for braking.

[C.Wilcox]

Haynes- Electric start very well could be another difference between those two models. I was just thinking in terms of interchangability of parts. I have seen several B/C Franken-tractors where they used parts from both a B and a C to make one whole machine. Based on that I would think your model C casting should bolt right up to your existing B without any trouble. You must have a hand brake set up? Mine is foot pedals. I think the hand brakes went out somewhere between '42 and '45.

[maple flats]

$ states in the Northeast now have rebates for roll bars. I don't know about other states. Go to www.ROPSR4U.com The states I know of are NY, Penn, VT and NH., as they all use that web site. The rebates are thru Basset Health...they have been doing it in NYS for a few years, headquartered in Cooperstown, NY and just recently expanded. This as I understand it is not gov't financed, but the healthcare providor, Basset, is doing it. I had mine installed about 3-4 yrs ago and they sent me a check about a month later for $700, the max at that time. Now the max is $765 or 70% of installed cost.
I might suggest those in other states inquire thru the web site, it might expand further if enough inquire. They also have a data base of sources for ROPS for lots of older tractors. When I got mine they had not found a source ahead (1979 Ford 25hp) but within a couple of days they found 2 sources, they said my tractor was too new, most of their listings were older tractors.

[MASSEY JACK]

Had a customer at work that mowed hilly pastures in so. vt with a farmall C with narrow front. We made a weight bracket for the front end and installed 500lbs of suitcase wts on front.Rops is a great idea but lets put some weight on the front and it will be a lot less likely to rear up.

[heus]

Wilcox and Haynes,
Just wanted you to know that I used to be the proud owner of 3 Allis Chalmers tractors: a WD45, WC styled and WC unstyled. The WD45 had the snap coupler system. Dont know if the B or C came with that. The 1957 Ford 641 with the 3 point hitch that I have now seems like a modern tractor compared to them, but no where near the power of the 45.