pump size and size of line

[MERIDIAN MAPLES]

I am currently setting up a new woods with tubing. Because of the slope of the land I have to have my collection tank and releaser set in the middle of my 40 acres. My access to my woods is at one corner of the woods, so I have to pump my sap from my collection tank uphill approx. 2000' at a rise of approx 20-30'. I don't have electricity in the woods so I'll have to have a gas powered pump. What size pump would be recommended and line size. I'm eventually going to have 2000+ trees tapped in this woods. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I'd use the 35 cfm Hydrovac with a 9 horse honda on it. It will provide enough vacuum and pump the sap to the corner where you will pick it up as it runs. Use a smaller tank at the releaser (enough capacity to hold sap until the pump line thaws) and a tank large enough to hold a full days flow at the pickup point. I currently use such a hydrovac on 1400 taps and pump the sap 4000 feet with almost 70 feet of head.

[driske]

MM,
Similiar application nearby has evolved to a 20hsp Honda direct coupled to 5 hsp sihi. Honda is equiped with a remote fuel tank giving 26 hour run time on 10 gallons gas. Thats the vacuum side.
Pump out /transfer line is 1and1/4". Pump is "1hsp grundfos" ,generator powered and float switch actuated. Again about a 24 hour run time.
Those over night run time features are worthy to note if you want to take advantage of round the clock vacuum application and still get some sleep.
Whole system runs a 24 hour cycle for about 16 gallons of gas.
My .02. Like to hear from others as well.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Are you going to run a temp line to pump out of the woods with? I talket to a guy that had about the same situation and he pumped the sap out thru the vacuum line and then went back to vacuum after each sap collection. Hello CVs. Are you going to try and pump up the 30' and then let gravity help out. Having a discharge line that has bags and low spots will be a problem with freezing. Plus if it slopes up all the way for 2000' when the tank is empty and you shut the pump off all that sap in the line will drain back and you dont want to use a check valve because of freeze up.

[MERIDIAN MAPLES]

Thompson, I'm interested in learning more about the hydrovac pump. This is what I was planning on doing for vacuum for the woods. The farmer I bought the woods from is going to be nice enough to let me purchase power from him for the season. I was going to set up a vacuum pump approx. 4000 feet from the releaser and run a dry-line for vacuum. I have a 2000 gallon cheese vat that I was going to use for a collection tank. For pick up of sap, I was going to have to pump out approx. 2000' to haul out of the woods. Ideally I'd like to pump the sap 4000' where the vacuum tank is because its a better place to pick up the sap. My concern is at that distance there would be so much sap going back to the tank.
I was going to wire the pump up line like a mainline so there wouldn't be any sags and it could go back to the tank.
Also I work full time so I'm not able to babysit the woods. I was going to set the vacuum pump up to turn on with a thermastat. I'd go to the woods after work to get the sap out.
If I was able to suck the sap out I would think I'd have less sap going back to the tank? And possibly I'd be able to run an electric pump then?

[MERIDIAN MAPLES]

I forgot to say the grade to where I want to pump up is gradually uphill the whole way.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I think a timer is better than a thermastat because I have had good sap runs under vacuum when the temp out is well below freezing so start early and let things thaw under vac. I think its easer to pump up 20-30 ft and then gradually down then to be pushing a collum of sap 2000-4000ft. sucking it sounds alot harder because of the priming issue.

[brookledge]

Craig
One thing you can do is if you have a 30 foot incline, pump it straight up and then slope it gradually out. It would be easier to do if it wasn't 30 feet though
Anyways by going vertical and then sloping you will only have the sap in the vertical part that drains back the rest will flow out on its own. It also works better when you use a check valve at the top so when the pump is off air will flow in the line allowing the 2,000 feet to drain out to your staorage tank

Keith

[Haynes Forest Products]

brookledge Great idea about the check valve. Keeps you from waiting all day for the sap to clear the line

[maplehound]

I have done a simmular thing in the past. I did find it easier on the pump and much faster pump time if I pumped upwards first then sloped back down. We used a standard pacer pump when we did it and had one major problem. When we shut the pump off one day the static shock of the column of sap (which was building pressure against an ice block) coming back against the housing of the pump blew up our pump. I was standing right next to the pump at the time and got soacked. After that we added in a pressure relief on the pump housing and a check valve after the pump to protect it even more. With the check valve though you will need a way to bypass it so you can drain the line during freezing temps.

[MERIDIAN MAPLES]

I've got a 5 horse Honda pump with 3" ports that I was thinking of using with a 1 1/4 water line. I was going to put a disconnect on the discharge side of the pump with a shut off valve to stop the back pressure of the sap when done pumping out the tank. When I'm done pumping I'd disconnect the line and put it in the tank to let it drain back.
Not sure if this would work? I thought about trying to pump up straight up right away, but wiring something up that high and getting a gradual down hill slope on the the line from there I think is darn near impossible.

[PETE FELCH]

we currently use two hydrovacs one pumps sap from about 7000 taps 5000 feet to another pump house that has electic power . They are both powered by 13 hp hondas Both pumps are engaged by 12v clutches when the float in the tank under the realeaser reaches a certain level. They work really well. Got both of them from Joe Pollak. We"ll be down there in a couple of weeks if you got any more ?

[driske]

How much $ for one of those hydrovacs?? Sounds like the way to go.
MM, you'll want that sap, or most of it anyway, waiting for you on wheels at your trail head. The time it takes to pump out 2-3000 gallons on a good days run can be considerable.
Not sure I'm on the right page here. But in regards to the sap left in the line. A 270 gallon tote is down in the woods adjacent to the main storage tank. We fill it with the volume of water the transfer line holds. That water is used to chase out the last sap of the day, and allowed to backdrain into the tote. Keeps the line clean, and you won't have 150+ gallons of day old sap waiting to innoculate the next days run. While the water is being pumped,you'll have enough time to give the tank and releaser some TLC .

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I gave a bit under $6K for my 35cfm ones with 9 horse electric start honda.