trees to keep in the bush

[poulu]

I'm thining out the bush this summer and was wondering if there are certain hard woods to leave among the maples, i heard some trees help control disease in the bush your thoughts will be greatly appreciated. Bob

[ADKMAPLE]

I am going to be doing the same thing, I do not technically have a sugarbush, but I have alot of maples in among other trees, I am definatly taking out all of the hemlock and pines in the area though

[farmall h]

poulu, you might want to get in touch with your county forester in your area. He will walk and mark trees for culling. How many acres are we dealing with here? I do not know the town you live in...Northern VT is quite large;)

[maple flats]

Either get a forester or at least attend a seminar on thinning by cooperative ext. In NY a state forester walked my woods and asked me lots of questions. He then wrote up a forest stewardship plan. This was all free (in 2004) Many counties also have county foresters who are paid by the county.
After that and several classes on thinning, I now mark my own using their guidelines and towards MY goals. Call and ask.

[poulu]

thanks for the feed back, we approx. have 15 acres of mostly reds we took a fair amount of soft wood out still have small Dia. spruce and fur to take out we allso have beach, cherry, yellow birch and poplar we are located in Norton right on the border.

[ADKMAPLE]

Have you walked your 15 acres to count the number of maples?

[BryanEx]

Bob... the route I go is to cut trees based on crowding my tap trees rather than species. I walk my woods several times with a can of spray paint both with and without leaves on the trees watching the canopies as I go. I drop dead wood if it's a danger otherwise leave it for the woodpeckers, I drop elm if it's already dying from Dutch Elm disease, and I drop hawthorn just because I hate them and resent everything they manage to punch holes in (including me). I thin out around my good trees and help out some up-n-comers but otherwise leave things be unless mentioned above.

[ADKMAPLE]

Interested to hear if anyone has a less than desireable sugarbush. Meaning, I have around 50 acres. My house is located at the bottom, then it goes up a pretty steep hill and then flattens out. Anyways, I was only planning on tapping what is directly behind my house on the side hill (faces SE). There are plenty of sugar maples and a few reds. but there is also a ton of hemlock and pine. I jut dont know if those evergreens are ok to have in a sugarbush? They do block the first rays of light alot. Anyone thought of this?

Anyways, with a stand of trees like this, one that has never even been thought of tapping, what should be the first thing I would do. also, many of the maple trees are only in the 12-15" dia range.

[TRAILGUY]

That is what I started last year and I had the county forester here. What i came away with is do not thin to much a once. Release the crown by 5 ft. on Two size minimum. Do not worry about short trees that do not touch the crown. The last thing you want is sun burn trees , vines and thorn bushes because you thinned to much. Thin heaver in 5 years or when you change tubing.

[Snow Hill Farm]

I like keeping a few hemlock and pine in the mix and use them as anchor trees for my mains. That way the sap stays a little cooler because it's partially in the shade.

[3rdgen.maple]

I would not even think twice about contacting a forester. 15 years ago I had land logged off. Also any sugarbush improvement advice and wildlife improvement. I do not recall exacally why but i remember him saying never ever clear out a species of tree. I think they all have some kind of benefit to the land in one way or another. I do remember him saying something about heavy winds and ice will wipe out a sugarbush without the proper amount of other species in the woods to act as barriers for them. Even if you don't have a forester stop in the professional advice just might be worth the phone call.

[KenWP]

If I cut every tree but maples on my land I might as well pasture it if it would grow grass. Years ago some dummys cut most of the maples down for firewood or what ever and the cedars took over. Most of the elms died off and I am slowely getting to them to cut for firewood. The wind takes a lot of trees out for me as the roots are only skin deep at best.

[brookledge]

As I thin my sugarbush I only cut the trees that are holding back the maples from being able to open up. I wouldn't recommend that you cut out every specie. Only cut the other ones directly around the maples. There should be enough other trees around that can still be left that won't bother the maples. Unless all you have is maples.
On another note as more people use ROs thinning of a sugarbush doesn't have as much effect as it did yrs ago. I know it will increase the crown and therefore increase the sugar content. But I wonder if it is worth cutting other maples. Like if you have two 12" maples say 6 feet apart would it be better to tap them both or cut one down. And if you cut one down how long will it take for the tree left to grow to the size of 2 taps?
Keith

[forester1]

I don't eliminate any species. Diversity is good. For instance, basswood is efficient at capturing calcium deep in the soil and depositing it through leaf fall, making it much more available to other species such as maple. I believe there are similar interactions between all species, as long as they are native.

[ennismaple]

I've heard beech can be invasive and take over so you want to eliminate or significantly reduce it in your woods.

[maple flats]

I have attended a couple of seminas about beech in the sugarbush. It is not suggested that you eliminate it BUT you MUST keep it under control. It is invasive and has the ability to choke out other trees. Keep control so it stays in check. Flame weeding is fairly effective on Beech. Dr Peter Smallage had a recent webinar on it. I'll try to post the link to the presentation soon.

[maple flats]

I sent a question to Dr Peter Smallage, will post link when I get it.

[maple flats]

http://breeze.cce.cornell.edu/p35316678/
This link should get you the hour long webinar from Jan '10.

[wally]

I don't eliminate any species. Diversity is good. For instance, basswood is efficient at capturing calcium deep in the soil and depositing it through leaf fall, making it much more available to other species such as maple. I believe there are similar interactions between all species, as long as they are native.

sugar maple and white ash leaf litter is also beneficial (provides calcium). for sure, in my sugarbush, i leave basswood alone, and most of the ash. i'll remove competing softwoods and other hardwoods, especially poor quality stems.

[maple flats]

That's right, don't give too much light all at once. Open 2 faces, by removing trees that touch the crown of the crop tree (maple or any other crop tree). Then after the trees respond repeat. I find that a 6-10 yr cycle works good on my land. In other words, I thin in 2010, the trees fill in and I thin again in 2016-2020. For several cycles I thin as an improvement cut on everything except maple and maple is thinned for maple production. After 2 or 3 cycles of thinning I will cut some saw timber that has matured along with my next improvement cut. This will be a life long process. I manage just 15 acres, don't think 15 acres is too small to manage or get a stewardship plan.

[maple flats]

Forgot to say, I only do about 1/6 of my land each year, so I am doing some each year. Some years I don't get to it because of other projests, and thus the 6-10 yr cycle.