sugar house wall height?

[foursapssyrup]

hello everyone,

I am currently designing our new sugar house for next year. we are going to be adding a 12x10 ft addition off our existing 9x10 shed, so that would make the total dimensions 21x10. I am not sure what to plan building the wall heights at? the existing shed has 6 ft walls, and i was thinking of making the new addition walls at 8 ft. is there a preference??

we are planning on making the roof a 10 pitch (metal), and have a 2x7x2' high cupola on top, over the evaporator. is this pitch too steep? can we drop down to a 6 pitch?

lastly we are planning on having the evaporator centered in the room, which means our smoke stack will run right through the ridge. this is no problem as far as framing, but is there a roof jack available for this application?

i have already drawn up a set of plans, and can take pictures and post them if it will help!

thanks!!

phil

[Haynes Forest Products]

Making the addition taller than the existing bldg. isnt an issue. I like building with out cutting the big stuff Like 4X8 sheets of dry wall or OSB. Siding comes in 4x8 sheets so why cut off 12" of anything when its usable. As far as roof jacks anthing goes so shop and get it so you can frame it out right. Remember alot of outlets and windows and floor drains:lol:

[SeanD]

I have a very similar design to yours: 12x20, 2x2x8 cupola, centered stack. I went with the 8' walls and am happy with it. Actually they are a closer to 8"-6" with the plates and headers added in. At first it seemed huge, but I got used to it quickly and it allowed me to put bigger windows in.

I originally planned on a 12" pitch which looked nice on paper, but in reality it was way too steep and high for my site. I dropped it down to 9" and am very happy with it.

I'm still waiting for my roof jack, but yes they do make peak mounted jacks.

Here are some interior and exterior pics of the shack in progress to give you a sense of 8'ish wall height.

[maple flats]

I made mine 10' high which I read later in the NAMPmanual was higher than recommended. They suggest 7 or 8'. Steam was a big problem because it would cool too much while rising. After I added a hood this was no longer a problem. My thought was and still is that higher wouyld give me more room to add a steamaway if I ever wanted to. Even now, without a steamaway, I can raise my hood with a winch and get it up about a foot over my head if needed. With 8' I couldn't get it over my head, even without the steamaway. Not sure about a steamaway because an RO will do so much more for the $ invested.

[Russell Lampron]

I built my 12x24 sugar house with 8' walls and a 13-12 pitch. It gives the steam a place to go. I also have room for upward expansion if needed. D&G built my roof jack. The pitch was no problem. Check the pics in my photobucket.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

My walls are extremely high. 12 feet. Part of the building is a farm shop with a second floor and the walls were 12 foot there so I just kept going. They are way more than needed but cause no problems. My evaporator has no hood and steam is not a problem. It is always over my head. Visitors always comment on how big and roomy the sugar house feels, even at the end of season as the floor space is becoming congested with barrels. I like Russ's comment that it gives me room to expand upward..just not sure what I'd put up there.

[foursapssyrup]

thanks for the replies and the pictures!! seems like i am on the right track with my planning.

we are also planning on putting a couple drains in the floor for easy cleanup at any time with a hose.

after drawing up the plans and looking at it, it seems it may be a little cramped with space. may end up widening the building from 10' to 12' or 14'. only problem with that (and it's not really a problem) is we are going to be milling our own lumber (pine mostly) for the build, from our own land, and that mean more time on the chainsaw mill. it should save a lot of money on materials, and will give a little more allure to the building being it's all native wood.

lastly, our smoke stack is most likely going to exit through the top of the cupola, not the shack roof, as we have to have the top of the pipe at least 3' from the highest point on the building, have others done this? will it affect the steam escaping at all?

[Brian Ledoux]

My brother and I built a sugar shack in february. I had all kinds of design questions too. Built the shack 14x8. I went with 6 foot walls (6.5 after header and plates, etc.) I My cupola was 5 feet long, 2 feet wide, 3 feet high. I was amazed at how well the steam barrelled out of it. Not a single issue. My evaporator was a 2x3 but I am not worried at all even if I move up to a 2x6 or even 2x8. I was especially worried because I centered the cupola but the evaporator was installed against the back wall. It all worked great though.

[3rdgen.maple]

Once again I have to agree with Haynes. Why cause yourself more work than needed. If you are sheeting the outside or inside for that matter make the walls 8 foot. You will not have to cut any plywood. You can also have windows at eye level and not have to crouch to look out of them.

[Haynes Forest Products]

My evap room is what came on the trailer so it is what it is. I found in the beggining that it was a castle/palace....It was all I would ever want and need. Then I got a long round head tank that would fit in the peak problem solved until I wanted to clean it:mad: So now I have to remove the bands that hold it up and remove it because of not enough height to get into the top opening.

I see all these nice shinny new rigs with tall hoods and steam aways and preheaters and such. How pissed will you be if you cant buy the rig you want because the shelving you so proudly made is the 12" or 24" of plywood you cut off the wall height:lol: :lol: :lol: Next someone will tell you to put Sono tubes under the evap..............................SHUT UP CHUCK.Go sit with Fred

[foursapssyrup]

the decision has been made, we will be going with 8' walls, and a 10 pitch on the roof. that puts the peak at about 12'-6" plus the height of the cupola (2'). that should be plenty tall for what we need. we also changed the width from 10' to 12', that extra 2' makes a world of a difference. so we wil have one area 9x10, and the addition will be 12x12 (where the boiler will be housed)

as far as cutting sheets of plywood, well, i don't think we will be. as was mentioned, we are going to be milling our own wood for the project, from trees on the property. which means we will most likely be using 3/4' plank boards instead of plywood for the sheathing. and the framing lumber will be true 2x4, not 1.5x3.5. i am working the numbers to see if it is worth it to mill our own, but a hundred or 2 in gas for the chainsaw is a lot cheaper than 4K in materials... just depends on how much time it will take to mill it all up.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

foursapsyrup,
Why not get somebody to come in with a portable band mill? Won't cost that much and a whole lot quicker and easier. I built from all my own timber, cut on my own mill and burned the slabs the first year for fuel. Visitors liked the idea...

[PerryW]

My walls are 7'4". A 12x16 sugarhouse with a 6x10 shed addition off the gable end.

There's also a roof off the back gable for my tank.

The steam stays in the main part of the building and the 6x10 shed part stays pretty much steam free.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/perryW/SugarhouseSnowSmall.jpg

[northwoods_forestry]

I went the route you are considering and milled all the lumber for our new sugarhouse from our own timber. Felling, skidding, and milling enough timber for a 16x20 sugarhouse and attached 16x14 shed took just under 2 weeks. I used hemlock timberframe construction with 1" pine siding. Total cost for all the lumber came in at just over $1,200.

There is less milling needed with a timberframe design vs. stick frame, but the flip side is it takes a bit more time and specialized tools to prep the timbers and you need a lot of folks to help stand it up (a good excuse for a party!).

Best of luck with the project!

[trackerguy]

I also built with both my 13 x 17 2 story gambrel shed and the sugarhouse from trees felled / sawed on the property. It takes a little more planning as you need to figure your bill first, then figure which trees will make how many board feet of each length / size lumber, then cut it all 6-8 inches longer so you can trim it. A good sawyer will beat std scale by 20% or so, figure that is your extra (surprising how much extra it can take). The logs will want to roll onto the mill from the pile, and the sawn lumber will want to come off the end of the mill, waste off to the side opposite the logs. Planning this so the sawn pile is correctly located next to your building can save lots of re-piling. Sort the lumber into individual piles by size as it comes off - don't stack it all together and re-pile later. The latter may make the mill go a bit faster but it's way too much work later on to re-pile. Sawing your own is well worth the effort and very satisfying.

[foursapssyrup]

what kind of mill were you using? i built an alaskan mill i was going to use, just wondering if you guys used a chainsaw mill, or a bandsaw mill. judging by trackerguy's response, he was using a portable bandsaw mill.. correct?

[northwoods_forestry]

A portable Bandsaw Mill is what we used. Those Alaskan mills are ok for cutting the odd timber, but to mill out enough lumber for an entire structure? Seems like that would take a really, really long time.

Trackerguy's efficiency advice is all excellent. If you hire in a mill, make sure you get someone experienced and good. Definitely ask around and get refs. A good miller will save you much time, timber, and frustration (not every one can cut straight boards and square timbers!).

If you go the route of buying your own mill, factor in some training time and extra timbers. Running a mill efficiently and cutting square isn't as easy as you'd think.

[vtsnowedin]

I went with eight foot walls and Home DePot lumber as it was actually cheaper then the Amish band saw mill down the road and you don't have to deal with the slivers and out of tolerance stuff while your putting it together. Learned about that when I built our house from rough sawn twenty five years ago.
Used a 9/12 pitch with recycled metal roofing and offset the arch one foot so as to not have to cut through the ridge pole knowing the limitations to my framing skills. I didn't want to build in a weak spot.
Things I'd do different include two more floor drains, one right under the drain to the flue pan and one where a sink will go sooner or later. A water pipe in up through the slab for a future hookup to water piped in from up the brook or a tank on the bank, and two more feet of clearance between the stack end of the arch and the back wall. It's a bear getting the flue brush in the hatch to brush that end of the flues.

[Russell Lampron]

Foursapssyrup I see that you have a 2x6 evaporator. I have a 2x6 as well and my evaporator room is 12x12. That 2x6 pretty much fills it up and I would make the evaporator room 12x14 to give yourself a little more room to fire the evaporator. In fact when I add on to my sugar house I am going to move the wall 2 feet into the addition to give myself more room. It also gets pretty crowded in there when I have visitors stop by for boiling sodas and syrup shots.

[foursapssyrup]

can anyone recommend someone with a portable bandsaw mill? Or even have an estimate as how they charge per board ft?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Mine walls are just over 10' and not a bit too high. I laid 3 rows of 8" cinderblocks above the concrete floor so I don't have any moisture problems with water getting on the walls and then I framed up 8' 2" walls on top of that. Can't have too much headroom and the 2' of cinderblocks sure makes it nice when washing down the building as I have a 5" to 6" thick concrete floor in the full 24' x 48' building with floor drains.

[SeanD]

Hey Foursap,

I just read that you were going the milled route which will be an awesome experience, but I also saw that you were thinking of doing it because it is cheaper. The $4,000 for bought materials you estimate sounds too high.

I paid under $500 for the KD lumber for framing and under $700 for the rough sawed stuff for the exterior for my 12x20 shack. As it was I overbought the rough cut, so had I done better math or realized that the 8 foot lengths I ordered were actually long enough to do what I bought the 10 footers for, I probably could have saved a little more. The roofing materials - plywood sheathing and metal roofing - were another $1000 or so, but that would be the same either way you go.

Doing the milling with your own timber can be great and definitely cheap, but don't do it primarily for the savings. It's a lot of work. A sawmill can have your order cut and delivered in a couple of days. The one I used charges:

1x10x8 (actually close to 10') - $4.33
1x10x10 (actually close to 12')- $5.42

1x3x8 and 1x3x10 are $.90 and $1.13 respectively.

I totally forgot you're right down the road. Feel free to come by and take a look at the wall heights or anything else. Maybe you can help me get my doors on my cupola. :)

Sean

[ringer]

Sean are those prices for green lumber or dried .Thanks

[SeanD]

Green lumber.

[northwoods_forestry]

Milling shouldn't run you more than 25 cents/board foot for softwood. There's a guy in So Vt who mills for that price and can handle up to 20' logs. Not sure how far you are from VT, but let me know if you want his contact info.

[Farmboy]

I used 10' sidewalks on my sugarshack. They are plenty high. I used kiln dryed shiplap boards so that shrinking isn't a problem. If you use roughcut be prepared to put up batten strips to cover all those gaps between boards. Just me 2 cents

[ADKMAPLE]

My garage, which I am thinking about coverting 1/2 into my future sugarhouse has 12' walls. I was always planning on taking an old shed behind it, gutting it, extending it, and putting in a concrete floor for the sugarhouse but now am thinking about the garage idea. I can still use it as my garage even though I dont put my cars in there or anything, just atv/trailer woodsplitter etc..The only thing though is I would have to have a hood and exhaust the steam through a pipe because of the plywood floor I put in the upper part for storage..The addition of doing that would probably be less expensive than redoing the shed I would assume

[03weim]

Sean did you use Parlee Lumber in Littleton?

[SeanD]

No, JB Sawmill here in Hopkinton. They just bought the Garner Brother's mill - same location, different owners.

Sean

[foursapsyrup1]

No, JB Sawmill here in Hopkinton. They just bought the Garner Brother's mill - same location, different owners.

Sean

Can you give me an addres so that we acn atke a look at your sugarhouse for ideas?

[SeanD]

I'm sending you a PM.

Sean