April Journal

[3rdgen.maple]

Okay I gave you guys plenty of time to start the April journal so since nobody did I guess I will.

All my maple taps are pulled and I am experimenting with the birch thing. Seems to be going pretty well. I put out 55 buckets to see what happens and I have to collect twice a day and each time they all are over flowing. This stuff sure does stink boiling it until it gets concentrated. Smells like fresh cut popple. Everything else is cleaned up and packed away in hopes of a much better year next time around.

[BC Birch Tapper]

We're still waiting to go full bore. It hought we might be ready to go today but the temps are just too cool. I tapped 4 trees and only two were running. We're playing the waiting game right now.

[3rdgen.maple]

It was 72 here today for a high and it still ran like crazy. I am guessing here but I take it the birch tree does not need the freeze thaw cycles the maples do cause it just does not stop running. Also I was searching the net about birch syrup and a few of the sites from alaska were saying to put cork in the tapholes after pulling them on birch trees cause they are more prone to disease. Is this true? Cant wait to get a drawoff to try this stuff. The longer it boils the better it smells.

[PerryW]

got 100 gallons of sap today and made another 2 gallons. Grade dropped back into B. Peepers are out tonight.

[KenWP]

I bought in almost a 100 gallons today also. Far as I can see birch trees don't heal up as fast. They run untill it freezes then stop for a while then when it warms up they run again. Mine just started today as they ran like crazy for a while and then stopped. Will see what the weekend brings me.

[C.Wilcox]

This stuff sure does stink boiling it until it gets concentrated. Smells like fresh cut popple.

I need some clarification on this process. I thought I had read in previous posts that you couldn't boil birch sap because the sugars would burn at 212 and you'd end up with something that was only good for sealing your driveway. I take it from all these posts though that you can boil it, but maybe just not all the way to syrup???

[TF Maple]

It was 72 here today for a high and it still ran like crazy. I am guessing here but I take it the birch tree does not need the freeze thaw cycles the maples do cause it just does not stop running.

Right, for maples they need the freeze thaw cycle to make the pressure for the sap to run. Birch trees build pressure from the root system. It is a totally different system for moving sap.

[adk1]

so wht is the deal with this, you are basically usign your evaporators and making birch syrup? interesting. waht does it taste like overall

[BC Birch Tapper]

Its extremely difficult to make birch syrup on an evaoporator. I've only heard of one person successfully accomplishing it .
Birch is composed of fructose & goucose which has a lower boiling temp than the sucrose in maple ( you cant go over 100 deg C with birch. As the sugars concentrate you need to drop your fire down so you don't go over temperature. At that point you need to draw the concentrate off to keep the efficiency rate up on your evaporator. We draw off at around 25-30 deg brix.
Then we finish it on a double bolier under more controlled temperatures.

[3rdgen.maple]

BC Birch Tapper are you sure you don't mean baume? It is actually nice boiling this year but man oh man does it take a loooooong time to even get it to 30 baume. I pulled one drawoff the evaporator a few minutes ago and will watch it on the gas finisher to get to grade. I have no idea how to even describe the taste. Absolutely nothing like maple. I can understand why this stuff is so expensive. It is a slow meticulous process atleast that is my experience being a first timer. Anyone with an RO could make the most of it for sure and get the sugar contents up. My trees have been testing at .5 to .8 so far. Thats alot of sap.

[Maplewalnut]

Visited with Brian Ryther yesterday, top notch sugarmaker and a great setup. I would love to see that 6x16 cooking one day-24inch stack looks like a culvert pipe rising into the sky! Anyway, its clean up time for the second time this year. Look for my reaming results in the PA thread by tonight. Definitely worth it for us.

[BC Birch Tapper]

Each evaporator is a little different, but typically we're pulling our concentrate off of our 2x6 at about 25 deg brix ( braume is often on the same intruments) but a different scale)
As the sugars become more concentrated you need to watch the heat to insure it doesn't burn. You're not a true birch syrup maker until you're burned some.
Some folks use an RO but even that has a different type of membrane, but every time you can reduce the water content by not heating it will result in a milder ligher syrup.
I just had maple syrup on my pancakes but will use birch tonite on salmon and in a vinegrette salad dressing. It's more of a cooking application. We sell lots to chefs at schwanky restaurants. Google birch syrup recipies & you'll see what I mean.
You can make blends as well for a pancake syrups, & folks add fructose or other types of sugars to meet the sugar content.
One key point, birch has a PH of around 4.7 ( much lower than maple) and it is believed that it doesn't need to be finished to 66 deg brix as with maple. We are getting some testing done by a research lab to confirm that point hopefully this year.
Most folks are adopting maple standards as there are none for birch at this time. It is believed by the producers that the magic number is somewhere between 50 and 60 deg brix.
It sells in Canada for $60 to $100 per litre. As we don't have any maple trees here so we tap what we have. We're having birch festival open house at our farm next weekend to sell a bit of product. Hoepfully the sap will be running. The weather was quite warm but cooled off and snowed last night so not much is happening right now.
Check out our website if you get a chance.

People started tapping birch trees here in the WWII era with sugar shortages so people were using what they had available.

[3rdgen.maple]

Well call me a quiter but I refuse to keep going on this birch tapping. Weather has been in the 70's and 80's since thursday of last week and sap looks like milk before it hits the tanks. It takes way too much wood and time I have at this point so I quit. Pulled all the taps and now its time to get on with the clean up. Evaporator pans been soaking in vinegar overnight. Will get out the buffer in a few days and polish up the arch. Get the pans cleaned up then onto the 800 buckets. Had plenty of time to build some new shelves in the sugarhouse to better orginize for next year. Gonna get a flue pan and syrup pan cover made. When that is all said and done I will start to put plans together to put two bushes on vac for next year. I think I can get one piped right to the sugarhouse. Might have to put in one sap ladder but I will see.

[red maples]

I didn't do the birch thing I don't know if I will next year either. But clean up for the year is well underway. got the pans powerwashed inside and out arch is vacuumed out and pans are back in place. got all taps pulled flushed all tubing system(suck job) sucked the lines dry as could and the taps are all back on the T's.

still need to do :

1. need to clean the sides of the arch near the draw off where it got splattered a little.
2.Clean all the connectors clamps and fittings put everything back together and put n the cover til next season.
3. bottle up remaining syrup and freeze a gallon of medium for candy.
4. clean and put everything in the sugarhouse away.

then projects for the summer begin.

do a little fishing
Chicken coupe
wood
wood
and more wood
garden
put in a road through the woods to get to the wood.
and what ever else I need to do but can't think of right now!!

[KenWP]

I am almost finsihed with the birch also. I took off the last sap today and then pulled all the taps. Had a truck load of buckets to bring home. She who has to be obeyed gave me a hand doing it so it only took two hours.
It's too bad that birch is so much work as I finally found a bunch of sweet birch that I had tapped and they were really putting out. I boiled for hours yesterday and finally got enough boiled down to make a batch of beer and wine and then will finish with what ever syrup it will make and then time to wash up and go on to other things.
Was a good year with a bit more syrup made then last year and no buddy stuff.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Ken I understand making wine out of things that taste good to start with but Birch syrup. Cant you run into town and get some Sterno or Ripple. I have chewed on a canoe paddle before and they dont taste that good :rolleyes:

[KenWP]

I am not going to drink it so what do I care what it tastes like. I just do what I am told to do.

[Dennis H.]

Got my new tree climbing harness yesterday and new climbing spurs, let the fun begin.

I have a few large oaks that I need to take down and I down want to tear up other trees in the proccess so I am going up into the tree and take it apart a piece at a time. I also got rope to climb but man is that tough on the arms. I am not using an assender just a split tail and micro pulley. I think if I keep using that setup an assender will be in my future!

[farmall h]

Are you kidding me! Dennis you crazy man...stay out of them trees! Good way to hurt yourself. Unless of course this is what you do for a livi'n. Stay safe man!:cool:

[jrthe3]

the tree is not what usely hurt ya it is the suden stop when you hit the ground that hurts

i limbed trees for a living for 4 summers and still here to talk about it i seen more people get hurt in bucket trucks then climmers

[nas]

the tree is not what usely hurt ya it is the suden stop when you hit the ground that hurts


What about all the branches you bounce off?:o
What's the saying? "He fell out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down";)

[3rdgen.maple]

Just remember guys beer and chainsaws don't mix well. Not that I ever by accident cut a tree down and landed it on a hunting camp me and 10 buddies were renting. Thankfully it was built like a brick craphouse.

[ennismaple]

We got the rest of the tubing and all the tanks washed on the weekend. The snot stew in the pans is already starting to reek and should require HAZMAT training to drain and rinse out in a couple of months!

Now all that's left is to sell everything and make improvements for next year! Gotta keep up to Theron's 1 gallon of syrup per tap...

[Revi]

I started cutting next year's heating wood today. No bugs and nice temps for using a chainsaw. I cut about a quarter of a cord at a time and stack it in the woodshed at home. The whole activity takes about an hour or so.

I am also cutting for the sugarhouse, but that goes quicker because I can cut it longer.

I hope to have both woodsheds full before the middle of May.

The bugs may be out by then.

[heus]

I have left my pans full of sap. I am surprised at how much of a beer smell it has as it ferments. Has anyone ever made maple sap beer? Not that i will try with this stuff. Looks like snot like ennismaple said.
I am also in the middle of a sugarhouse expansion project. Am enclosing a 10x16 lean to into part of the sugarhouse. I removed the original wall so I have a 22x16 open space now instead of 12x16.

[farmall h]

Let the sap turn into snot...nice! Added lots of water and milkstone remover, brought to a boil then let her simmer. We'll let it sit for a few days then pressure wash. Whoa man...leave the sugarhouse when your boiling the milkstone remover...toooooxic steam! Any rodents or squirells in there probably didn't last. hee hee

[PerryW]

Now that the season is over, we finally have snow. Got about an inch on the ground and it's still coming down. Now if it would only kill all the black flies before they hatch.

[Dennis H.]

Not much going on here.

I have to cutting trees though, trying to open up some of the red's to get bigger canopies. Darn oak's anyway.

I am working hard to decide what evap to get for next season. I wanted to build my own but it doesn't look like I will have the time to fab an arch for a set of pans. The honey-do list is quite long since I didn't get much of it done last year with going out to the Grand Canyon hiking and also doing the complete new tubing setup.

I have my eye on a nice piece of land that I am trying to own. There is an easy 200 trees on it and it is only 1/2 mile from the house. I figure if I can get that land it would be a great place to build a nice sugarshack with all the trees on tubing. We'll see the guy isn't in any rush to sell though.

[Fred Henderson]

My wood shed it full again and everything cleaned and put away. All ready for next year if there is a next year. There might be a big sale next fall, with the 3x8 at the top of the list.

[red maples]

Gettin' out fred?

Just working on wood at this point. I still need to take down the lines at my neighbor's and roll up a few lines right around the house. and just clean a few things. otherwise I am all cleaned up.

I need to sell some more syrup before I buy anything else. Last year was the investment year. this year I will get what I have money for from syrup sales. So we'll see what we can get.

[farmall h]

Suppose we could throw a heck of a "sugar-on-snow" party! About 2" on the ground..now rain. Shut down boiling last year April 16......go figure.:(

[maple flats]

I have about 2.5 seasons worth of wood ahead (if like this one make it about 12 seasons worth). I am still cleaning tubing, should be done sunday, weather permitting. Next I look hard for a vac pump and everything needed to make it work, for a 550-600 tap bush, no electric (unless I set my spare gen there.) Also looking to add about 200 more gravity taps at a new location, all roadside, fully mature trees, big canopies.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The Northern Tools stores down this way are having 10% off of everything in stock tomorrow or anything you order in the store if anyone is in need of anything. I have had my eyes on a 30 ton Northstar woodsplitter with a 4 way wedge for many years and plan on biting the bullet tomorrow on one. I was given an almost brand new riding mower from my grandfather when he passed away and have no use for it as I push my lawn and plan on selling it to pay for most of the splitter, so now I have any excuse to buy one.

Not sure if the stores up north are having this sale tomrrow or if it is just the stores in Virginia. I don't have any in WV and the closest one to me is about 2 hours away.

[heus]

Finished the 10x16 addition to my sugarhouse. Still not sure what I am using for sap collection next year. Most of my taps were on gravity tubing networks, but the upkeep just seems like a pain to me. Also considering going solely to buckets or even sap saks.

[gator330]

Well here we go started working on the new sugar house. Running Power this week. Roof going on next and the cement floor is going in next month. The building is 30x50 post and beam gable barn. By the time I get it set up the sugar house portion will be 14x26 on cement, with a lg wood storage area beyond that. The other side is going to be a work shop/ garage. Storage on the second floor along with the head tank. May be a year or two before I can swing the 3x8 or even a 3x10??? Thinking of a hood with a fan to put the steam out the side rather then 20 feet of stack??? Does any on do it that way???? Big things happening, going to look funny if that little 19x39 inch evaporator has to go in there for next season.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Gator,

Sounds like a nice building and it will be very useful!!

[Farmboy]

I've been cutting up slab wood for about an hour the past few days. I will finish up tommorow. Hopefully by the end of the week I will split up all the slabwood. There's a huge pine that's been down fire a few years in my grandpas woods that it going to be cut and split for next years sugaring wood. I already have a head start because I have 2 cords left over from last year. I want to have my wood done by June so it is plenty seasoned. I would like to get two years ahead but that's pushing it.

[Yellzee]

I starting putting slab wood into my ruts through the swamp,,, then plan to cover with rock over the next many months to hopefully stop the ever sinking.

[forester1]

I bought a Troybuilt 35 ton woodsplitter at Lowes. Mostly US made parts and a Honda engine. It ran 10 seconds and the engine seized up. Dang. It had oil. The Honda was built in Thailand. I don't know why, but it's another disappointment, Honda engines always worked good on some pumps I have. Lowes ordered me another but now I will be splitting wood with the black flies and mosquitos, if the next one works.

[Yellzee]

Just keep those splitters locked up when not in use.

Buddy of mine bought a beautiful splitter after years of debating... disappeared while he was at work about 3 weeks after he got it.

He and I are still crying about it, as I could have borrowed any time I wanted!

[Sugarmaker]

Have begun the wood restocking process like many others and have been doing some marketing of syrup. Then there's the perpetual lawn mowing that seems to start earlier this year too.

Did just buy a pressure washer with a Honda engine, I will watch that as we get it up and on line.

gator330,
Mam! That sounds like a nice size building. Have fun!

Brandon,
Did you get the splitter! I would like to get one, as we split 10 cord for the house last year, and was able to borrow Keith Talbot's splitter.

Heus,
What is it you don't like about the tubing?

Chris

[Farmboy]

Finished cutting up a pile of slab wood. Its next to get split. That should be about 3 cord total once thats split and stacked.

[220 maple]

Every year for the last 3 I have set up at the local Spring Mountain Festival. Preparing to do so again this year. I usually display some maple items, tubing, spiles, pictures etc.... This year I'm going to display the shoes that saved my maple season, ie. Snowshoes from Cabela's. I suspect they will get alot of attention because they are a rare item south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Each year my sales have increased hopefully this year I'll top the 1 grand mark. I was very close last year. The good thing people are looking foward to me being set-up at the Festival. And some are waiting to purchase syrup this weekend. I also have Maple Candy, Maple Sugar and the hot item and most profitable Maple Coated- Pecans, Almond, and new this year English Walnuts.
Maple Syrup as a stand alone product is ok, but when made into other things which I call value added. The value of a gallon of syrup goes thru the roof. I told my wife I would love to sell all the syrup I made this season as coating for nuts. Those of you that are doing Maple coated nuts know what I'm talking about, the rest don't know what your are missing!

Mark 220 Maple

[Amber Gold]

This weekend I'll be taking down the tubing that comes down every year and work on wood for next season.

On a potentially bad note, I recently found out that there may be changes for next season at my only sugar bush. Not sure what this might entail, but their son and forester will be walking the property soon. I offered my time to walk it with them and hopefully they accept my offer. Hopefully the forester knows about sugaring and isn't anti-tree tapping. If I lose this, I'll be able to maintain about 80 taps of the 400 as they are on a different property.

I have one possible sugar bush in my back pocket that I'll use if needed.

Still no word yet on the large 2300 tap sugar bush. Hopefully will find out soon so I can start looking for an RO.

[red maples]

oh man good luck with that. If he is a forester then you must be talking about either conservation...or logging.

hopefuly it is not the later.

[KenWP]

So if I roll Haynes in maple syrup hes worth more. Wonder what 3rgen will sell for also. Nuts up here seem to be expensive without syrup on them as it is. What is a english walnut.

[heus]

Quote:Heus,
What is it you don't like about the tubing?

Chris



Chris,
I cant really explain it. First of all I cant get used to the sight of blue tubing through our woods. Secondly, it just seemed easier to me to empty buckets rather than totes. Most of my trees are a very short distance from where I can get my tractor through the woods anyways. I'm still kicking around the idea of putting in mainline though and running laterals to it. I just don't think I am going to do the gravity networks like this past season. We do deer drives throughout our whole block and it just seems like it would mess them up. Anyways Im still up in the air. I like the look of the galvanized buckets hanging from the trees. I realize the tubing saves time during the season but it seems like alot of upkeep throughout the year.
On another note, I bought my black waterpipe and conduit to run electricity and water to the sugarhouse. I need to find someone close by that rents out a trencher. I have to trench around 300 feet or so.
Talked to a couple of your fellow NW Pa sugarers (Daryl and GaryR) last night at the gathering at Evans. Brad Gilliland from Leader was there.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chris,

I did get the splitter last weekend and got it put together yesterday and ran it thru the paces for about an hour today. It is a 30 ton Northstar from Northern tools and it has the Honda GX commercial grade engine on it. Very nice splitter and spent the extra $ 80 and got the bolt on 4 way wedge. Pretty awesome that with one stroke, you get 4 pieces of wood. Sure speeds up the splitting time tremendously. Worth the drive Saturday to get the spitter since everything was 10% off. Nice having an agricultural tax exempt business license also.

Extremely well built and very heavy duty splitter.

[red maples]

Finished the 10x16 addition to my sugarhouse. Still not sure what I am using for sap collection next year. Most of my taps were on gravity tubing networks, but the upkeep just seems like a pain to me. Also considering going solely to buckets or even sap saks.

I don't mind the tubing through the woods. I actually like it all that hard work to put up too me looks rewarding. I take it down around the house and just hang it from the mainline. and once the under brush and leaves fill in you can't even see them. For my new stuuf I think I am going to use the green stuff. I have a few buckets and man I hate them if it rains you have to dump it. if there is a good freeze on the way you have to make sure they are empty. and with everything else to do I have to collect them.

besides all my mainlines drain into tanks located 15 feet behind the sap house so planned it that way...except for the road side big mommas. which I will add on more of those!!!

I feel sorry for you guys that have hundreds of them I know to each his own but If I could get them all on tubing and eventually most will be

[Amber Gold]

I think it's more concern over what I'm doing than anything else. They're old and know nothing about tapping trees so I think they're relying on the forester to tell them what they should do. Assuming he's not an anti-tree tapping forester then I should be OK becuase I am doing things responsibly. But then again, everyone has their own take on what's responsible. That's my take on what they're looking for...we'll see how it goes.

He's probably not interested in logging, unless it's future logging. Most of this land was a field ~40 years ago so the trees are relatively small.

I am realizing now that even though it's cheaper not owning the land that you tap, it's easily made up for in security.


oh man good luck with that. If he is a forester then you must be talking about either conservation...or logging.

hopefuly it is not the later.

[maplecrest]

land owners do not like BLUE tubing. all the new woods i have done are blue. and everyones complaining about the color. when i used smoke grey 15 years ago no conplaints everyone was ok. but now with orange and purple and blue and green, land owners i talk to tell me not in my woods. i would like to see more smoke grey in 10 tubing. the 15 year is just too costly at this point.i do not understand why they did away with the semi grey.

[red maples]

probably somthing in it that wasn't kosher or something. or they just felt that it was time to change who knows. What about the green all the new stuff is really shiney so no matter what color it is you can see it I think green would be the way to go at least when there is under brush and stuff it is kinda concelled alittle.

[ennismaple]

I like blue tubing because every time I see it I think about how I used to stretch and take down the old tubing every year! To each his own but I'd rather it be visible than have someone who doesn't know the property come through on an ATV and get their head separated from their shoulders.

[PATheron]

Marty- How did you guys make out with the new evaperator? Did it seem faster than a conventional rig that size? Theron

[brookledge]

maplecrest
Why not use 30P It comes in 3 colors the catalog describes it like this
light blue the best color for sap quality.... highly visable all yr
light gray when customers don't want it visable during the yr
light green when customers don't want it visable during the summer months
Keith

[red maples]

I like blue tubing because every time I see it I think about how I used to stretch and take down the old tubing every year! To each his own but I'd rather it be visible than have someone who doesn't know the property come through on an ATV and get their head separated from their shoulders.

yes that is true I did think about safety too after I wrote the last reply.

[maplecrest]

keith, i took all the 30p out. do not like it. every time the vac gauge went down in the pump room it was 30p that was apart. now then there was a problem of thick and and thin tubing when it was made. and they have changed the fittings to fit the 30p. but i like the semi ridgid. did get a couple of thick and thin semis last year. and that i had cut into drops with was a nightmare chasing leaks.

[tuckermtn]

jeff- do you mean you run all your laterals with semi-ridgid? thats what I have been doing recently, but since your a pro I put more weight behind your opinion...

[ennismaple]

I 2nd the vote for semi-rigid laterals. All ours are now semi and we've had no problems with them at all. I've even gotten the rack of the ATV caught on a lateral as I drove under it and it stretched to 3x the original length before it broke and it held the fittings perfectly.

[sapman]

I had two, maybe three spots this year that the 30P shrunk down to almost a thread when stretched. Not happy about that. But I do still like the stuff, though I haven't tried competitors.

[brookledge]

I've had good luck with the 30P. I'm not sure how many yrs since I started using it but I'd say 10 yrs ago. It never pulls apart or leaks for me.
Keith

[farmall h]

I bought 400ft worth of the lapierre light blue from the Maple Guys this fall. I had three laterals come apart at the dropline tee. All installed w/deluxe tubing tool. I wonder..is it because I used Leader tees? All three came apart twice on the same tee within a 3 day span. A noticable drop in vacuum. Having the vacuum pump in the sugarhouse helped me notice the the drop in #'s the second time. Missed it the 1st time for about 6 hours.
Seems to be a larger ID on the Lapierre tubing. Any body else have this scenerio?
Always used Leader semi-ridgid blu in the past. Very flexable and seems to bite the barbs nice. Never had a tee pull apart.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The blue Lapierre tubing is the biggest bunch of junk ever created. I put up several rolls of it and had to take it down within 18 months. It was so bad, I had lateral lines completing blocking off. Guess it is very rough inside and creates a bacteria plug. Never seen any other tubing do this in my life. Very expensive and time consuming lesson.

[farmall h]

I'm with you there WNM, it is stiff as hell and has no stretch to it. Is this why they call it memory tubing. I also made the mistake of doing probably 200 drops out of the stuff. Way too ridgid...might as well use 5/16" polyethelyne air line! Never again will I buy that again.:mad:

[lpakiz]

Well, I had a bad experience my first year (this year) with 30P semi-ridgid lateral tubing. It SPLITS the long way at the barbs on the fittings. Some places it split 3 or 4 places on the same fitting-perhaps splits a 1/16 inch long, perhaps a 1/4 inch long.. Others it split so bad the tube fell off the fitting entirely. Of course, I am the only one who has had this problem. Yeah, sure. It does seem limited to 2 rolls --so far. Wonder what I am in for the next several years....
The dealer assures me they will make good on this, including some new fittings.

[KenWP]

Wonder if the tubeing was stored different or something. Like it got hot .

Today and tomorrow is the last day for birch. I was going to finish today but got called out for 10 pm and who knows when I get back home again. Trees are starting to bud in the sun and the sap gets to warm to cool off fast. That and it's almost impossible to keep in the pan. I have to take it off and heat on a hot plate and boil new stuff and then at the end mix them toghether and finish at a lower temp once I have the sap through the flue pans.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Never again will I use the ridgid I had the splits at about 15 drop line Ts and that was 3 days after instal in the summer:mad: I called Garth and he sent out new semi said toss the ridgid and use this Sorry. so I was happy with the service.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Well, I had a bad experience my first year (this year) with 30P semi-ridgid lateral tubing. It SPLITS the long way at the barbs on the fittings. Some places it split 3 or 4 places on the same fitting-perhaps splits a 1/16 inch long, perhaps a 1/4 inch long.. Others it split so bad the tube fell off the fitting entirely. Of course, I am the only one who has had this problem. Yeah, sure. It does seem limited to 2 rolls --so far. Wonder what I am in for the next several years....
The dealer assures me they will make good on this, including some new fittings.

I am glad they will make good on it. I sent a message to Chris(maple guys) about it as I usually buy all my tubing from them and have it shipped and he was supposed to contact Lapierre about it since it was under warranty and never heard anymore about it. I love the Lapierre translucent tubing and that is all I use now. I like the 30p and never had any problems with it except my squirrels seem to have a fetish for it, but I think the Lapierre translucent is better than the 30p but time will tell.

[farmall h]

wvm, I don't have the tubing splitting. It seems way too hard and the barbs do not bite the tubing. If you have ever used the Leader semi ridgid blue you will notice that the tubing actually seals over the barbed fitting really tight.

[DrTimPerkins]

Well, I had a bad experience my first year (this year) with 30P semi-ridgid lateral tubing.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but 30P is a rigid tubing, not a semi-rigid. Which were you having issues with, the 30P rigid, or one of the semi-rigid formulations (if Leader Evaporator it would have to be Max Flow Flex or Max Flow Grip)? Who was the manufacturer?

Sounds like some combination of factors....fittings, 5/16" line, temperature.....or just a bad batch. With the rigid line there isn't a lot that can go wrong....the formulation and extrusion is quite simple. I don't think we've ever had any rigid tubing split, but certainly have had issues with some other tubing.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

About the most durable tubing I have ever used is the Beaver River. Yes, it is hard to work with, but when you get it up, it is great stuff. I have about a mile of that stuff of and have had it up for quite a few years and wish they still made it. The wall thickness on that stuff is great for durability and the squrirrels are less like to chew thru a wall. Stays nice and clean also.

[lpakiz]

I'm going to try to post a couple photos of the problem. Stand by.....http://dsc00456.JPG

[lpakiz]

How's this??

[lpakiz]

Here"s another--click on the thumb nail file to make it bigger...

[Buffalo Creek Sugar Camp]

I had the same exact problem with the 30-P last year. I made 800 drop lines with 30-P and 60% of them split like the picture posted. Luckily this was before I put them in the woods. So I made new drops with memory flex and they worked good but when I put the drops in the woods, the 30-P that ran from tree to tree split at the drops. My dealer ended up giving me some tubing to make up for it but it was still a pain to deal with. I have also talked to other Traders that had the same problem with 30-P. I think it must have been a bad batch though because almost all of my tubing is 30-P and only a certain section split.

[lpakiz]

Well, that's good to hear--that someone else had problems. Like I mentioned earlier, it seeks like it is 2 rolls out of 5. I used Memory-flex for most of the drops and they are OK.

[farmall h]

Ipakiz, not meaning to find fault with your installation methods..but how exactly are you installing the tubing to the tee. Please explain.

[vtmaplemaker]

I have some leader tubing in my woods, that is 4 years old, and alls I do is chase vac leaks on it! as far as I am concerned, leader tubing is only good for gravity producers! I also have some lapierre tubing in te same woods that is 10 years old, and it holds vac perfectly... Think about it guys, if the tubing is so brittle, that it splits, does it grab the barbs tight, on the fittings??? By far the best tubing on the market, is the Ipl line!

[farmall h]

Evening VTmaplemaker, I was down in Failee on Sunday to visit my Grandmother (I am certain you know of her). Anyway, feels like the tropics down there..amazing what 65 miles away will do. I see Danny Brick has already planted seed across from Fairlee marine!!
After looking at the photos does it not look like maybe the ends of the tubing were warmed up (too hot) and pushed on by hand. Just looks a little off color.
I posted earlier in this thread that I have been having problems with the Lapierre memory blue popping off the tee fitting of the lateral..certainly NO cracks. I will keep going till I find one I like. ps: we are scheduled for BIG SNOW starting late morning and into tomorrow night! Maybe 2" accumulation 1200-1500ft elevation. Jay peak is expected to get over a foot of snow!!

[brookledge]

It is really interesting on how much variation there is on this topic. I wonder if the tubing changes based on the raw materials? how some can use one type and love it and others hate it.
those pictures clearly showed it splitting and I have used 30P for atleast 10yrs and have miles of it out in the woods. I have never had any split like that or any pull off either. The last time I had problems was when I used to use the purple vynyl stuff that would stretch and get hard. That stuff would eventually start leaking vac. I don't use 30P for drops just laterals.
Keith

[MERIDIAN MAPLES]

Boy you guys are scaring me talking about the 30p splitting. I'm in the process of setting up a woods right now and I've got about 25 rolls out in the woods allready. Did the tubing split right away when you put it on the fittings, or did it take some time before it split?
I've got some old rigid blue line in one woods that split similar to the pictures, but it took 5 or more years before it started showing up. Where that happened was just in one area, so I think I may have had a bad roll.

[ennismaple]

I haven't had any problems with tubing splitting like that but we have only 1 roll of rigid tubing in our bush - a trial to see if I liked it or not. I believe that roll came from Lapierre. We used semi-rigid droplines. I wonder if it's the extra stress of using rigid droplines that's causing the splitting?

[Maplewalnut]

I use semi for both drops and laterals, Can't see a reason to use rigid from an ease of installation point of view. Semi stretches nice and tight and stays put. Granted it has only been a little over three years but very rarely I have to retighten any lats. I have both Lapierre and CDL in my woods no difference thus far. Definitely don't see any of the snot boogers that WVM saw with Lapierre tubing. May have something to do with vacuum vs gravity? Only think I have noticed is that I can stretch it too much sometimes and reduce the inside diameter on longer runs. Especially where it pulls tight against trees. Makes it interesting when you have a repair and hook your two handed tubing tool to both side only to have them go flying in both directions when you cut the line because the tube is pulled thin and it slips through the vice grips...!!! Look out!!

[mapleack]

I've been using nothing but 30P for laterals for over 15 years and I've never had any split like that. It stays tight, and with the newer black fittings always stays on. This year was my first with vacuum on some of it, so I really cant speak to the vac problems some people report. Overall I'm very very happy with 30P and plan on continuing to use it. The split tubing pictures remind me of some D&G dropline tubing I got that didn't have enough UV stabilizer in it. After two years every drop made of it started breaking off. Perhaps Leader made a bad batch, it could happen to any manufacturer I guess. If thats the case I hope they make it right for anyone affected. That being said I hope mine is alright, I've still got 10 rolls we got last year sitting in the barn.
-Andy

[Buffalo Creek Sugar Camp]

The 30-P split within a few weeks of installation for me. It was only one section of woods and the drops that I had made up. I didn't even get the drops installed in the woods before I realized they were split. I cut all the fittings off and used the memory flex. I really think it was just a bad batch of tubing because we had 4'+ of snow when we tapped this year and a lot of lines were buried. Some of them we had to just pull up through the snow and they held on the fittings well and didn't seem to split. I am going to be stringing more tubing and it will probably be 30-P.

[Dennis H.]

Not much maple stuff going on here. Working on building a chimney for the upper garage. The bearings in the motor for the power venter for the boiler are going bad and a new motor run almost $300!! I could replace the bearings but who knows how long the motor will last. So a chimney it is.

One thing I will be working on that is maple related is a tool that will cut tubing off a barb fiting withput nicking the barbs. I am thinking of a shaped knife that matches the profile of the barbs and just go about 2/3 thru the tubing.

I am also getting ready to order my evap from the mapleguys. I will have to stick to the smaller end of evap, 24x60, for right now. I just can't figure out how to fit any thing bigger in the sugarshack without doing some major roworking of it. I am already thinking of things to do to the evap to improve gph.

[lpakiz]

Farmall H,
Yeah, I gotta lotta hours on one of them, too...cultivating with a 2-row(trying to stay awake) Plowing with a 2 bottom trailer type and discing with an 8 foot double disc. Dad bought a Super M, a 3 bottom plow and a 10 foot disc. Now we're in the BIG TIME!!
I put the fittings together with a homemade tool using two 5 inch (?) vise grips and a long scissor type handle mechanism. Assembled them in fall of 2009. It was cool, but did not need gloves. Seems like only 2 rolls out of the 5 I installed are giving problems. SO FAR!!

[PATheron]

Guys- Any of you guys remember what Casey told me I had to do to fix my signature so people can see my pics? Theron

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Theron,
I think you have to take the smiley face off the end of it

[PATheron]

Doug- Ive got it all messed up now. Ive got Casey on it. Hell figure it out. Theron

[BryanEx]

PATheron - Insert your link like this but change the 4 brackets ( ) to the squared version [ ] ...

(URL="http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc309/patheron/")http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc309/patheron/(/URL)

[PATheron]

Thanks guys- Casey fixed it. I suck at computers. Im more a woods guy. Theron

[802maple]

I know when you call me I have a hard time to get you to say anything.

[PATheron]

I can talk better than I can run computers especially if its about syrup. I LOVE makin the BIGSAP. Theron

[ADKMAPLE]

I am basically planning out my sugarbush. Woking on clearing out some hemlock/pine and picking up the side hill of branches and falled timber. I am 2 season from running my own operation. It will go by quick though. cant wait.

[220 maple]

I had a excellent weekend selling syrup at the local Spring Mountain Festival. This was the thrid year that I have had a table set-up. Each year my sales have increased. My prices were the same as last year. The good deal is it only costs 40 dollars for a table for the weekend. Last year I almost cleared 1000, this year I was a gnats eyelash below 1500. Then on Monday I sold three barrels wholesale to another maple producer who had a very poor season. He opened 3500 holes and only made 340 gallons, I had 864 holes open and made 271. Then Tuesday I checked on the store (Tourist Trap ) that sells my syrup, they had sold alot and the owner said its not even tourist season yet, they warned me that I better not let them run out, I'm glad I still have 70 plus gallons of my best stuff stored in stainless containers.
The owner said they needed info about my camp because people ask a lot of questions like? How many trees, How many taps, How much tubing and pipe I have in the woods. And of course the classic question Was this syrup really made in West Virginia.

Mark 220 Maple

[Haynes Forest Products]

And dont forget HOW MUCH SUGAR DO THEY PUT IN IT:mad:

[220 maple]

Haynes,
That's a big 10-4 on when and how much. One of are neighbors who works at a local bank always picks up a couple quarts for a fellow employee asked my helper when we add the sugar? He was dumb founded with that one. He tried to explain the process but wasn't sure if it registered.

Mark 220 Maple

[ADKMAPLE]

are people really that far out of it? I mean, this goes way back in history

[KenWP]

I have people that can't figure out why its so expensive. They see how much comes out of the trees and figure thats syrup. They tell me people have also figured we hang the stupid little cans on trees to fill them up also.

[ADKMAPLE]

Come on, this cant be true. Has anyone figured out their hourly wage per gallon of syrup yet? And I am not talking about simply standing there boiling it.

All the time from cutting/splitting wood through the whole ordeal until you draw off a gallon? It has to be pennies on the gallon!