Where Did My Syrup Go?

[Bradenfish]

Hello, we made 255 gallons of this year and after figuring up sap gathered and sugar content my records show that we made 325 gal. We have to truck all the sap from three bushes so if we are off on the gallons of sap in each load that could throw it off a little. Also holding sap for a day can reduce the sugar content. We have an RO so when we switch from concentrate to rinse we lose a little concentrate. The membrane isn't passing sugar either. I chased water thru the evaporator to get most of the syrup out. But 70 gallons of syrup lost? Thats a lot more than i was expecting!:cry: Are there any other places we could be losing sugar?

[royalmaple]

If you run your RO properly you won't lose any sugar when switching from concentrating to rinse mode. You have to flush the membrane with permeate when you run out of sap and send that to the sap tank. Otherwise you'd be very amazed at how long you will be sending sugar on the ground.

[802maple]

I don't know how many times you chased your evaporator with water but if you don't find a way to boil down that last sweet that is in your pans you will be shocked how much that turns out to be also. It is very easy to lose 3-4 gallons in a rig your size.

Do you have a hood on your evaporator. If you were to test your water coming off that you will find a fair amount of sweet in that especially in a hard boiling evaporator just from the splashing that goes up and hits the hood and runs down into the drip channels around the sides. That is why I don't especially like hoods. If it foams up and runs out the side channels before you defoam it a good amount leaves evaporators that way.

Is your hydrometer or refractrometer accurate? 2/10ths of a percent over a year is quite a difference over a year.

Some is lost in a filter press evrytime you change out if you have one.

and as Royalmaple said above you need to chase the ro with permeate until there is little or no sugar left in it when you are done concentrating.

Add everything up and you will find there is a lot of places to lose that much.

[KenWP]

When testing for sugar in the sap are you also taking the temp of it. There is a lot of difference due to temps. Also how much over did you make your syrup.

[brookledge]

you are definately losing alot of syrup over the course of the year if you are not saving the concentrate when you switch over for the rinse. I will test the sap as I'm beginning to push permeate through until it goes to zero percent. quite a bit will go into my concentrate tank before it hits zero. You could easily be losing a couple of gallons of syrup each time you begin to wash if you are not saving it.
Keith

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have to disagree with Jerry on losing any one the filter press. I don't think I lose 2 ounces of syrup in a filter press in the entire season and here's how. I usually run thru about 12 gallons at a time and at the end of the 12 gallons, I pull the filtered syrup hose out of the finisher and put it in a bucket. I then pump a couple of quarts of cold or hot distilled water from the hood into the press. I then, shut off the press and pull the discharge hose tight and clamp it to the bucket with a continual slope. It only takes 2 to 3 minutes and the entire press will drain about every ounce of liquid in it. A few minutes later, I break the press down and all I have is solid cakes. Yes, I have some diluated syrup in the bucket, but it can be dumped back into the evaporator or added to the next batch as I draw off mine too thick and use this to thin it down.

Try it, it works tremendous and when you break down the press, cleanup is a breeze as the only thing left is nearly solid cakes and they fall right out and a quick 3 second dip and slop in some water, the plates are clean as new. I have a 4 bank Lappiere 7" press.

[802maple]

I don't disagree with you at all, but you are in the minority that do it that way. I also when time allowed did it similar to you. I was just pointing out possible scenario's of where syrup could have gone. Some of the things that I have mentioned such as the hood condensate,I have tested it sometimes and seen it as high as 3 percent for what ever reason and most of the time it was between .50 and 1 percent. Even at that lower number over a year it can be a lot of syrup. That is why I don't like hoods.

[Amber Gold]

Jerry, the flue pan on my rig doesn't have very high sides, so when she boils hard everything splashes over making a mess of the evaporator and floor (never mind the safety hazard to kids). I was going to put a hood w/ preheater to fix this problem and to get the steam out of the SH. Is there a way I can put a hood on and not lose concentrate? Are drip channels on all 4 sides needed or can I just have them along the back edge for the preheater drip tray to drain into?

Thanks

[802maple]

It is a kind of double edge sword. It is nice as far as getting the steam out of the sugarhouse, and yes you can have a hood without the side drip trays. Having said that though you will not have anyway of catching the condensate that also collects on the sides and that will run right back in the pan. My self I don't mind the steam so I put extensions on the side of the pan so that sap would not splash over the sides. There will be some that will say that a preheater is needed for the best evaporation, but when I took the hood off from my evaporator I didn't notice any less evaporation, nor did I see a increase when I added it. Granted it was on a 5x14 and I don't think you get the increase out of a larger evaporator that you might get it out of a smaller evaporator.

[danno]

Seeing Jerry's post, out of curiosity, I checked sugar content of condensate from my hood. Was running pretty close to zero, that made me feel better. Part of the explanation is that most of the run-off comes off the flue pan and the last boil was 1% sap and gotta believe that most of my condensate comes off the pre-heater. Figured it may be higher if sap going in is concentrated.

[trackerguy]

RO membranes passing sugar in the permeate at .05% or less could be a big looser.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

You can always taste the condensate coming off of the hood also if you don't have any other way to test it. Just make syrup you mouth is devoid of any sweets.

[michiganfarmer]

I checked the condensate comming off my flue pan hood a few times wiht a hydrometer, and was only getting less than one half of one percent

[KenWP]

I checked the condensate comming off my flue pan hood a few times wiht a hydrometer, and was only getting less than one half of one percent

A half a percentage point would add up in big numbers. Every 180 gallons would make another gallon of syrup. So 1800 gallons would make 10 gallons more syrup etc. I am boiling.5% birch sap and it does make syrup after a while.

[markcasper]

Did you mean 1/2 of .10 percent, which would be .05 %.