cement floor

[ringer]

Getting ready to pour a cement floor for a new sugar house and trying to figure out whether to go with fibers in the concrete or not , will dust from them be an issue or not, if they do kick up fiberglass in the air dosent sound like a good idea ,any thoughts

[waysidemaple]

We poured cement in our horse barn with fiber in it this past summer. Ill be pouring cement in the sugarhouse this summer and plan on having fiber.

[3rdgen.maple]

Couldn't you seal the floor after it cures?

[ringer]

I guess you you could seal i t but conventional sealers wont keep the fibers from flaking off the surface unless you used concrete paint or something similar

[Haynes Forest Products]

After a few seasons of scrubbing and sweeping the fibers get sanded down. I would worry more about the number of floor drains:)

[western mainer]

Are you guys pouring a 4"or 6" pad? and is it a floating pad? I"m thinking about pouring a pad also.
Brian

[maple flats]

My personal opinion is that wire mesh or rebar would be safer because of the possible dust issue. On the other hand, any dust will filter out. I just like to be safer.
As far as the pour, I like how I did mine. The part under the evaporator is on a footer (down 4'6") and blocks up to the pad which is poured onto the blocks, just slightly larger than the footprint of the evaporator. The rest of the floor is a floating pad, kept seperated by a 1/2" expansion joint. So far nothing has shifted but if it does the evaporator should still be good.

[vtsnowedin]

You have two types of foundations here, floating slabs and frost walls with floor above. Workmanship is the key to each. For the floating slab make sure the sub grade is well compacted and slopes 2% to the down hill side for drainage. Then place a thick blanket one to three feet thick of free draining clean gravel or crushed stone and place that in layers eight inches thick and compact each layer as tight as you can get it using a plate compactor or roller and adding enough water to keep it well damp. The water lubricates the stones and helps them find their tightest position. Have enough help when placing your concrete so that someone is in charge of getting the wire or re bar placed in it's proper position in the middle of the slab and has no other duties until that is complete. Pour your concrete as stiff as you can and work with it. Sloppy wet crete. is weak crete that will crack. Cover with poly as soon as it is set up enough to hold it and damp cure for at least three days fourteen being better. Don't forget your anchor bolts and drains. I'd set one drain right under where the flue pan drain is going to be having learned from my mistakes. Frost walls? get them down and on undisturbed ground on a footer three times the width of the wall and put the re bar right to them and pour them stiff and use a vibrator to keep out any rat holes. Form in a ledge to hold the floor if your going to have the walls come up above the floor grade.

[moeh1]

I'm with the rest, go with the fiber. My quonset hut barn had a rebar reinforced "rib" around the perimeter, it was ten inches wide by 18 inches deep poured so that it was part of the floor. I used a small rototiller type unit to cut the trench part. Ten years later, no cracks and I'm happy. I'm sure the same thing would work for a sugar house.
Oh yeah, my nephew poured with fiber and they used a power trowel. That cement was so smooth...he had to add some sort of textured overcoat just to drive on it with wet tires.
Marty

[maple sapper]

If your going to worry about the fibers so much then you may as well be worried about the silica in the concrete that will be kicked into the air when you walk on it or sweep it. Maybe the best thing would be to (depending on budget and square footage) epoxy the floor. I know they sell kits for garage floors now. This would seal the floor and allow you to do what ever you want.
On another note, if the floor finisher is really good, you can power trowel it to a burnished finish. It will be polished. It will look like a piece of glass. This is done at the very end. The last pass the paddles are cranked up to be more vertical and gives you a super smooth finish.

[wnybassman]

I wouldn't be worried about the fibers. I would at very least seal the floor if not paint or epoxy it.

[wanting to get into it]

I would listen to vts, he knows what he is talking about. Now, with your sub base (stone) if you would like to go one step further. Get a few bags of portland mix. Straight portland. Depending on the size of building, you would want a thin layer over the complete stone base. Mix this in with your stone before you compact it. After it is all mixed in, put the water to it. Then, use your plate compactor and compact it. You can't compact it too much either. The water then will do two things, it will act like a lubricant to the other stones in your base and it will activate the portland. If you don't see water puddling up, put a litttle more on it and compact it some more. Let it set up. This base will be soooo hard when you are done you will think it is concrete. You can even put the portland on the dirt before you put the stone down and mix it in with a roto tiller, water it, roto till it again, and then compact it. To get the water right with your dirt you want to be able to grab a hand full and make a ball with it in your hand. Then do the stone. You won't be sorry either. I am not crazy either, this is called cement soil stabilization. I have seen state inspectors try to pound metal pins in after this sets up. Pretty funny to watch. They only get them in a couple inches then give up.

[northwoods_forestry]

Hey, where was all this advice last fall when I was building my sugarhouse?

Not knowing any better I poured my 20'x16' 6" slab as follows:
1. Excavated down to mineral soil (about 2.5').
2. Backfilled to grade with a sand/gravel mix and compacted with excavator.
3. Built a dry laid field stone foundation up 8" above grade around the perimeter.
4. Let everything settle for 2 weeks.
5. Poured 6" of concrete with fiber inside the dry laid stone foundation with no rebar or wire. I domed the concrete in the center sloping outwards about 1"/10'. Just inside the dry laid stone I poured the slab 8-10" thick and let it "mushroom" out.
6. Finished with a broom a bit too early and it's pretty rough.

Notes:
This is a timber frame building that can move with the stone foundation, so I didn't feel the need to put in footings below the stone foundation. I've no interior drains, everything runs out through the dry laid stone foundation (the flip side to this is that it also lets little furry critters in). There is a fair amount of dust and fiber coming off the floor. I cover the syrup and finishing pans when sweeping up. The broom finish provides great traction, but is hard to sweep clean. No cracking yet and the evaporator stayed level through the thaw.

I've a bunch of photos up on Facebook if you're interested - Northwoods Farm and Forestry.

[jtthibodeau]

Great advice by all here but, I wanted to mention that a polished or extremely smooth finish to a concrete floor can be very slick when wet. Having snow covered footwear when first entering the building may also be a problem.

Just food for thought.......

[Haynes Forest Products]

I brought my sap shack home on a flat bed and we scraped off the first 12" dirt to the rocks and put in a bed of road base and set her down and leveled the building on field stone and piled gravel up to the sides. Cement truck ran the chute in the door and I leveled it. Its been in place 19 years no cracks.