Syrup Cooperatives

[Maplesedge]

Seems like everyone on this site ranges from small backyarders like me to some pretty large operations with thousands of taps.

I can understand the allure of making some good money in a relatively short time bottling your own syrup, even if that cash only rolls in when you actually sell the syrup.

But I wonder if any of you have ever considered the idea of forming a syrup cooperative? Think of Cabot Farms in VT for example. I don't know the details of their business model, but sap haulers could potentially do something similar, even though the raw material only flows for a short time, unlike milk to Cabot's.

Even people who don't boil now could join in if they had a sugar bush.

You could have various levels:

A small percentage if the coop comes and taps your trees, tubes the sap to a tank and trucks it out to the very large coop evaporatot plant, paying you a royalty based on quantity, and sugar %.

A larger cut if you tap yourself, providing your own tank. Even a bigger royalty if you RO it first to up the sugar %

The coop does the boiling around the clock, stores it, and bottles all year round, supply retail big and small, competing with the likes of companies that currently bottle and market bulk syrup.

And, you could still boil your own for the fun and profit you have now.

[Hop Kiln Road]

Jerry - I too think that co-ops will play a big role in the future, but it will be another 10 years. Ocean Spray is an example of a highly successive agri-coop. In fact, the other year for the first time since the 1920's they bought in berries from outside because they couldn't meet the demand of their new dual (concentrate/craisin) production lines. One of my kids was an EE working on the installations and the first thing the production line did was sort the berries by color with 98% accuracy! And the berries came in on tractor trailer dumps. The secret of Ocean Spray's success was marketing and turning a relatively unpopular fruit into every day consumption. Bruce

[Maplesedge]

Bruce,

Yes, Ocean Spray is a good example, also with a seasonal crop.

What new maple product lines are possible?

[Maplesedge]

Welch's is a coop too. Also seasonal, but they may be importing grapes or concentrate.

[Maplesedge]

Oops, wrong. Welch's coop farmers are all US. Mostly Midwest and NY per their website.

So, what can we market? Syrup, candy, sugar, maple booze, soft drinks . . .

[brookledge]

The only concern I have is that it doesn't get like the problems that are associated with dairy farmers who in a sense have no control on the price they get. Or like in Canada where you have to abide by the federation and can not sell in bulk to anyone else.
I can see where there might be some benfits but I think you would end up having to create a middle man to faciltate the product. And the middleman would then suck up the profits
Keith

[findandy]

How do get something besides the begining of your e-mail address on members list.

[markct]

i have been told by an older sugarmaker that they tried just what you propose in ny state years ago, and after a while it fell apart since everyone wanted to get a little bit bigger piece basicly, i mean what is sugaring if ya just collect sap? thats not a huge part of the sugaring process nowdays. years ago it may have worked well as a farm could spend all there time gathering sap and then just drop it off. but nowdays even thousands of taps can be "gathered" in under an hour leaving plenty of time to make syrup. and lets face it sap isnt worth too much, its not till you add your time and work to it to turn it into syrup that it is valuable. i have heard of a few medium size operations going halves or thirds on an ro machine to increase there efficiency, but still each can make there own syrup without having to bear the full cost of an ro.

[markct]

and my next thought is, if you are just selling your sap basicly then they got ya over a barrel on price. if i dont like the price they are paying for syrup i will keep it in my storage barrels till i find someone paying better or the price hopefully rises, sap however is just icky smelly water in a matter of days so you either sell it then at the price they dictate or its gone.

[GeneralStark]

I think that sharing the cost and maintenance of equipment can make sense in the right situation. This is basically what some friends and I are doing, though we are still working on getting things set up.

[Maplesedge]

The only concern I have is that it doesn't get like the problems that are associated with dairy farmers who in a sense have no control on the price they get. Or like in Canada where you have to abide by the federation and can not sell in bulk to anyone else.
I can see where there might be some benfits but I think you would end up having to create a middle man to faciltate the product. And the middleman would then suck up the profits
Keith

Wow, I didn't know that about the Canadian federation. Is that like a national coop or what? I was reading the welch's site and it seems the farmers are the owners and what they get are shares and dividends on the profits.

[Maplesedge]

i have been told by an older sugarmaker that they tried just what you propose in ny state years ago, and after a while it fell apart since everyone wanted to get a little bit bigger piece basicly, i mean what is sugaring if ya just collect sap? thats not a huge part of the sugaring process nowdays. years ago it may have worked well as a farm could spend all there time gathering sap and then just drop it off. but nowdays even thousands of taps can be "gathered" in under an hour leaving plenty of time to make syrup. and lets face it sap isnt worth too much, its not till you add your time and work to it to turn it into syrup that it is valuable. i have heard of a few medium size operations going halves or thirds on an ro machine to increase there efficiency, but still each can make there own syrup without having to bear the full cost of an ro.

Yeah, it could start small, just a few locals going in together, maybe selling off their individual equipment and buying the largest, fastest stuff they can support, in one hugh sugarhouse, running it round the clock, sharing every stage from tapping to marketing. Heck, you all love hanging around in each other's sugarhouses anyway, maybe you could actually increase your profit margin with economies of scale.

[Maplesedge]

and my next thought is, if you are just selling your sap basicly then they got ya over a barrel on price. if i dont like the price they are paying for syrup i will keep it in my storage barrels till i find someone paying better or the price hopefully rises, sap however is just icky smelly water in a matter of days so you either sell it then at the price they dictate or its gone.

My initial post was a raw thought that I threw out here to see how it developed.

But about just sap, suppose you set up a small, local coop, knew you could handle more sap, and knew there where lots of untapped trees in your area.
You could get lease rights, or pay the land owners for sap, or offer them a share in profits. There must be lots of untapped trees.

[Maplesedge]

I think that sharing the cost and maintenance of equipment can make sense in the right situation. This is basically what some friends and I are doing, though we are still working on getting things set up.

Cool. Exactly what I was just posting on. Can you share details?

I'm sure it's not a new idea, it's just how to make it work with the potential partners you have available. It'd probably never grow into some national thing like Ocean Spray or Welch's, but it's level up from doing all the work by yourself. It never hurts to have the support of people who love the business as much as you do.

Of course, then it becomes even more of a business concern and further away from that image of a rugged individualist.

[Hop Kiln Road]

First, my understanding of a co-op is that it is owned by the members so everyone would get paid the same delivered price for their sap based on sugar content.

Second, the real power of co-op is marketing. And marketing is exactly where the maple industry has failed. If you take the top 10% of the wealthiest people on the planet and divide the annual world maple production among them, they would each get 2 oz a year. There have been complaints for several years about the Chinese driving up French champage futures.

Yet in an earlier thread the head of Proctor Reseach said sugar is sugar when discussing the differences between maple and high fructose corn syrup!

[batsofbedlam]

Ask the Canadians what they think of the co-op system?

[Hop Kiln Road]

batsof bedlam - Not sure of the question. But the Federation certainly is not a co-op. They get government price supports and, I believe, quotas. The Federation and an US agri-coop are apples and oranges. Bruce

[Maplesedge]

First, my understanding of a co-op is that it is owned by the members so everyone would get paid the same delivered price for their sap based on sugar content.

Second, the real power of co-op is marketing. And marketing is exactly where the maple industry has failed. If you take the top 10% of the wealthiest people on the planet and divide the annual world maple production among them, they would each get 2 oz a year. There have been complaints for several years about the Chinese driving up French champage futures.

Yet in an earlier thread the head of Proctor Reseach said sugar is sugar when discussing the differences between maple and high fructose corn syrup!

Depends on how you set it up. Could get a payment for sap, or a profit share, or a share based on sap and time served, etc etc. How you set it up can vary greatly.

Marketing is the key to profit. Percieved quality commands a higher sales price.

[Maplesedge]

batsof bedlam - Not sure of the question. But the Federation certainly is not a co-op. They get government price supports and, I believe, quotas. The Federation and an US agri-coop are apples and oranges. Bruce

I'm gonna have to checkout this federation thing. What is it? Socialized syrup?

[Maplesedge]

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/managing/strategy/article.jsp?content=20070129_84941_84941

The link above is a great story, albeit from 2007, that gives a lot of detail about the federation.

That's not what I was thinking when I imagined a coop. A fair partnership is good, but not the imposition of unfair rules.

But about marketing: Why not try to open new markets worldwide?

Europeans might just go for it if you link it to native americans or first nations. The French may dig the Quebec connection.

[Maplesedge]

Here's a couple thoughts on marketing:

Play up the local angle. OK, kinda obvious.

But, we also stay at a few B & B's and they all serve only real syrup, and they go through a lot over the course of a year. The owners usally tell me how they wish they could buy it in bulk to lower costs. So, if your marketing, check out all you local B&B's and hotel's, fancy restaurants, and the like.

[nas]

I'm gonna have to checkout this federation thing. What is it? Socialized syrup?
The federation is only in Quebec. The other provinces are not part of it. And yes it is socialized syrup.
Large Co-ops can get ugly if you don't want to be part of it. I have heard of some cases with Ocean Spray where the Co-op gets nasty:evil: with the independents and tries to put them under:mad:

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Don't worry, if our current administration gets its way, we will be like Quebec before it is over with if this trend continues in future administrations just like Chavez.