Chasing with Water

[SeanD]

Wrapped things up yesterday and chased out the sweet with water yesterday, but it did not go as planned. Just as the temp. at the draw off flirted with my target temp. for syrup, it started dropping. I still had a color gradient, but it seems like the water was working its way through rather than pushing the sugar out. I shut off the water drip and finished it as a batch.

Is this typical? Should I have been "pulling" from the draw off before it reached syrup? I was hoping to finish heavy on the evap. and use diluted sweet that came through at the end to lighten it up.

Sean

[heus]

I tried to do the same thing at the beginning of the season when I knew we were going to have a freeze up for several days. Syrup was darker than motor oil and tasted disgusting. Ill never do it again.

[JohnsSugarShack]

I was curious about chasing with water. I'm done for the season and still have to finish off what is left in the evaporator. Think I might just draw it off and finish as a batch over propane. Should be in the sugar house now but I started watching the Bristol race, any other suggestions on finishing off would be appreciated.

[vtsnowedin]

I just finished boiling in my 3x8. A couple of days ago I boiled in all the sap I had and let the fire go out. I did have to cheat with two five gallon buckets of water as I fired it one more time then I should have. Once the fire was out I drew off all the sweet in the flue pan into the front pan and into pails. While getting to that point I drew off five gallons of good syrup. Then I filled the flue pan over full with water and today had 100 gallons of water at hand to make up for the steam lost from the back pan. Fired it up with the valves shut and used my finest split softwood slabs for a quick on and off. Fed the flue pan from the 100 gallons by bucket and added sweet to the front pans as needed until it was all in. I kept the flue pan well up over the feed pipe and when the time came I had She Who Must Be OBEYED open the valve between the flue pan and the front while I drew off first syrup then near syrup on the other side. WE got three gallons of B and four gallons of near which will be B at best . For the first year with this rig it worked very well and the only thing I really need is more sap.

[Haynes Forest Products]

SeanD I guess you didnt read my posts about how stupid CHASING THE SWEET IS. So my question is DID you really think that the syrup and the water would stay seperate from each other in a boiling vessal:lol: :lol: :lol: Reminds me of the guy that eats alot of really hot spicy foods and then CHASES it with ice cream to cool things off the next day:o

All you do is add to the time it takes to boil down the sap/syrup water mix. If you take a evap that has 25 gallons of SWEET and CHASE it with 25 gallons of water you will boil 50 gallons of diluted sap/syrup/water untill its done and it will be darker!!!!! And take longer.

[wnybassman]

It would be cool if someone invented some sort of movable/sliding divider that could be moved closer and closer to the drawoff as water filled in behind it.

[vtsnowedin]

It would be cool if someone invented some sort of movable/sliding divider that could be moved closer and closer to the drawoff as water filled in behind it.
I think you just did. But usually you are dealing with buddy mersh syrup at the end so it is not worth bothering with.

[SeanD]

You're right, Haynes. I honestly did think it would work. After all, it works when raw sap is pushing things along. So, being a dumb ***, I let my logic take over. I guess that's probably why boiler makers give me just as bad a hangover.

Fortunately, I picked up on it and shut everything down as soon as I saw the temp. hit its peak and then start dropping. I ended up with B, but that is probably more a result of my sap and the conditions than the extra boiling.

Experience is the best teacher. Then comes the Trader.

Sean

[maple flats]

I just drain my flue pan into a barrel, close the valves and run water into the flue pan using the float valve and all. I then boil and fill as needed in the front pan using what I drew into the barrel. I continue to draw as possible. When I have just under an inch in the front pan and no more in the barrel, I shut down and when cool, I drain the front pan into a ss pot and finish it on a turkey fryer. In my evaporator, after draining the last of the concentrate I fill with water, and boil to start clean up. At the end of the boil session I drain the water. I do this about 3 times with a 1 hr boil , cool and drain. After the 3 times I use vinegar if needed. Then I do water again and only build a small fire to get up to good wash water temp. This is what I clean everything else up with that doesn't go home to run in the dishwasher.

[Revi]

We chased with water last weekend and got enough to pour off once, but the stuff that's left will take a while to boil.

I think we'll finish off a bit more next weekend and call it a season.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have chased in the past with distilled water off of the hood and preheater and had very good success doing it. I wouldn't want to use well or other water that had anything other than a pure taste, so just save up a few hours of water off of the hood and preheater and it works good to chase with. You could dump it in with buckets into the float box every few minutes and the sudden surge will help push the sugar towards the syrup pan too.

[3rdgen.maple]

I will second Haynes. Water does and will dilute your sweet. Yes it may push it forward but it is diluting it along the way. Drain the flue, plug the flue fill flue pan with water, add sweet from the flue pan to the syrup pan and boil it as a batch.

[Haynes Forest Products]

SeanD You said something else that got me going. You aint pushing anything along the pans. The way the evap works is as the sap evaporates it is reduced in volume and other liquid runs in to replace it. Now as long as you have sap to replace it things will keep moving BUT only if you draw off some of the liquid/syrup. Yes you can try and drive all the sweet into the finish pan by flooding the flue pan before you start to boil. and it would work better if both liquids were the same temp. When the rig is up and boiling your just creating a cluster ----------- If you still think you can keep the liquids seperate get all you buddies that think the same and get them all in your hot tub explaine the idea and then tell them you just took a pee and see if they get out

[PETE FELCH]

We chase with Permeate everynite . It helps extremly well with buildup in the flue pan .And it saves on the grade of your syrup in the pan. As you know when you start the next day the first stuff is a little darker . It pays for us as there is about 40 gallons of syrup that we can draw of that would have to be reheated and lose color the next day.

[Haynes Forest Products]

So let me get this stright at the end of the day you push all the sweet into the finish pan and draw it off and your left with a flue pan full of permeate. Then you drain the permeate/sap mix the next day and start all over again.

I dont get build up in my flue pan that I need to get out every night. I dont seperate syrup from first to last or morning to night it all goes into the same finisher and it evens out.

Your starting out with concentrare from the RO so ill assume that this works well for you but what works well for me is Fill evap at the start of the year boil sap draw off syrup and clean finish pan every night. start every day with clean finish pan with yesterdays syrup put back in:)

When I start up my rig and open the transfer valve between the pans I watch as the flue pan sap mixes with the syrup pan liquid I see swirling and mixing of the differant gradiants. This mixing is done very slowly and without heat and I can see the mixing over 8" x 36" section of pan so I find it hard to believe your getting a wall of syrup pushed along buy a wall of permeate.

[SeanD]

Now, now Haynes, don't get yourself going. I'm agreeing with you. I'm just saying I learned it from time at the evaporator this weekend. You learned it spending time with your buddies in a hot tub.:lol:

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dang Google earth they see everything:mad:

[maple marc]

I think Haynes has a good point. But chasing may help me if I am close to a draw as I run out of sap on my 2x4. It seems I get one more small fast draw, and then the mixing occurs. At that point I think I am better off draining the front pan to a corn pot and boiling on the back porch.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Marc Is your 2x4 a divided pan? If its a batch rig why not just stop the fire as its getting close and then finish on the pot? Why dilute the sweet with sap just so you can get one last draw and then have to start all over again from scratch.

[JohnsSugarShack]

Well finished the season Sunday. I thought about chasing and decided not to. I ended up draining the flue pan into 5 gal buckets, then filled the flue pan with water and put 75 gal of water into my feed tank. Preheated the sap on my propane and feed it into one side of the syrup pan while drawing off on the other side when it reached temp, worked great. When I ran out of sap to add I let things cool down then drained the syrup pan and finished off on propane. I ended up with 4 3/4 gallons of dark amber very happy and a big thanks for the help on this forum it made shutting down and cleaning up a lot easier because I had no idea how I was going to do it. Now getting ready and looking forward to a bigger and better season next year.:D

[maple marc]

Haynes, I think I will go with your advice next season. I have a 2x4. Has a 2x2 flue pan and a 2x2 syrup pan. Would you drain the entire evaporator to the corn pots, or use just what is in the syrup pan (about 4 gallons)? I imagine the stuff in the flue pan is pretty diluted. There is no way of isolating the pans during a boil, so the fancy method of cleaning one pan while doing a batch boil will not work for me. I like the idea, though.

Marc

[3rdgen.maple]

Marc how do you figure there is no way to isolate the pans. If they are plumbed together you can put a plug in or a cap on the fitting. Drain the flue add the sweet to the syrup pans as needed. Check with the manufacturer of your rig. They make plugs.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Marc Any GOOD hardware store sells corks I used them for a few years till I had some plugs machined with handles. I always had a hard time throwing out any thing I spent the day boiling. Siphon out the flue and replace with water and keep filling the finish pan with the sweet till you get the nice dark B and hide it from the kids:)

[PerryW]

My cousin has a leader drop flue 2x4 and he is also having trouble isolating the front and back pans. It would be nice if they made a plug so you can drain & remove the front pan without draining the flue pan.